Protestants one-upping us on the personal relationship with God?

[mark_a]

there is also such a thing as “Catholic Superiority”

I sure didn’t mean to come off that way.

 

[SawGodThere]

I think we can all learn from our Protestant brethren. Often, they do develop very close personal relationships with God that many Catholics lack. Although I believe that Catholicism is “the way to go” as far as learning about God and provides a better road for following God, I think that if we take a step back and look at our Protestant brothers and sisters, we will learn quite a bit about personal relationships. This is my experience, and I will even say that it is because of protestants that I have the relationship with God that I do. With some Catholics, the tradition and the large amount of knowledge that goes into Mass and the Catholic Church can sort of bog them down, and they don’t see God in that personal light. Of course, there are many Catholics who still have a personal relationship with God. In most Protestand Churches, the focus is not on reciting prayers and lines, and singing ancient hymns, it is on knowing God, so although they are often not as well-versed as Catholics, they develop this personal relationship. But when a Christian combines the personal relationship, with the tradition and knowledge that the Catholic Church provides, then that person is a true man or woman of God.

 

[SawGodThere]

Lief- What if you are wrong?

Is this type of thing your basis for your “personal relationship” with Jesus?

This is extremely presuptuous of you. A relationship with God is more about worship of God than pointing randomly at the word of God to prove God is working through you.

I suspect there may still be a little bit of the “Protestant superiority” that still needs to be purged from you.

Sorry to sound harsh, but your posts in this thread exude something that many Catholics find very dislikable about Protestantism.

Mark, and what if God does speak to her this way? The Lord speaks to us all in different ways, and sometimes this works. How is this any different from saying “Speak, O Lord, Your Servant is Listening.” and opening the Bible. It does often work.I know that if I have a question and don’t have an answer, I will often randomly open my Bible, and quite often, God seems to provide an answer where my Bible falls open. Although I understand that this should not be the basis of one’s faith, often times God will answer you in this way.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Protestants often develop deeper spiritual relationships with God than Catholics do.

I feel as though Protestants are outdoing us to some extent in this focus on personal, spiritual intimacy with God, because so often Catholics don’t learn about this. Is there anything we can do to remedy this gap?

This is a long thread filled with long posts, so I apologize if I repeat. Some Protestants may have a better “personal relationship,” but I have 2 thoughts. 1) Protestants are much more likely to use that term when discussing their relationship with Jesus; and 2) People have mentioned the sacramental life, and you will nary find more spiritual people than those who make it out to perpetual adoration regularly. I had a professor at Steubenville (I think that’s where I heard it), I forget which one, who mentioned that even though Protestants can have a great relationship with Jesus, they can never attain the kind of relationship the saints did. Compare the most spiritual Protestant with the likes of Padre Pio or St. Therese the Little Flower.

At any rate, I wouldn’t blanketly grant Protestants “one-upping” all Catholics in spirituality. With Catholicism rooted so much in the new Law of Christ, and many branches of Protestantism having no “obligatory” “mass” attendance, there is the chance that you will see the more “willing” bunch of Protestants on Sundays than you might in a Catholic Church. There is a psychological tendency for otherwise lapse Catholics to go to mass to “check it off the list” and go about their week as if they were not Catholic. The devil’s influence is in this. That’s why I thought, perhaps comparing Catholics who voluntarily go to spiritual adoration or other services to the Protestants, and you can see the tremendous spirituality in the Catholics much stronger.

 

[mark_a]

Mark, and what if God does speak to her this way?

My answer was in context to the thread title. I don’t know how God works in others. One-upmanship from anyone is unattractive, no matter what the religion.

How is this any different from saying “Speak, O Lord, Your Servant is Listening.” and opening the Bible. It does often work.I know that if I have a question and don’t have an answer, I will often randomly open my Bible, and quite often, God seems to provide an answer where my Bible falls open.

Although I understand that this should not be the basis of one’s faith, often times God will answer you in this way.

I tend to open toward the back of the book.

However, I could easily open to the story of the fall or remember the two great commandments and get an answer to most of my questions.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

i have two thoughts about this:

1. scripture is the inspired Word of God, and God most certainly does talk to us through scripture. in light of this, randomly opening the Good Book for guidance seems reasonable.
2. the randomness of this practice opens the possibility for huge errors and uncertainty.

i think #2 above could easily be mitigated by having some known guidelines or bounding principles (i.e. sacred Tradition), as well as the knowledge that not every instance will reveal a perfect answer to a question (or an answer at all).

Yes, especially when, if in doubt, you pray for confirmation, open the Bible randomly four or five more times more, and every scripture you put you randomly your finger down on says, “this is what the Lord says,” “the Lord proclaimed,” or, “Jesus said.” That’s what I do when uncertain, and the Lord is glad to confirm with these strings of confirmation passages, when it’s him. I do that when in doubt.

As it happens, after finding those passages for you, I did pray for a long time afterward and continue to receive multiple exact answers to prayer through randomly opened passages, so what I was sending to you was confirmed to me multiple times.

This is just one way of many of hearing God, and I agree, Mark, it should definitely not be to the exclusion of worship. In fact, hearing God’s voice tends to inspire me to joy, worship and thankfulness. It doesn’t exclude it.

And Dang, yes, I agree that whatever one thinks one is hearing should always agree with Sacred Tradition and the teaching of the Catholic Church. And I only said in my post that this is what I believe Jesus is telling you. I’m not saying it is what anyone must believe Jesus is telling you this. This is just my belief, based upon my believing I sensed the Holy Spirit at that time, and the scriptural evidence.

my conclusion is that this is an appropriate practice, when coupled with the sacraments and prayer, as long as it is done with a good working knowledge of the teachings of the Catholic Church.

That makes sense to me (obviously ).

Dang, I was wanting to ask you, how did your Eucharistic Adoration go, last night?

MarcoPolo:

This is a long thread filled with long posts, so I apologize if I repeat. Some Protestants may have a better “personal relationship,” but I have 2 thoughts. 1) Protestants are much more likely to use that term when discussing their relationship with Jesus; and 2) People have mentioned the sacramental life, and you will nary find more spiritual people than those who make it out to perpetual adoration regularly.

I agree completely with both points.

MarcoPolo:

I had a professor at Steubenville (I think that’s where I heard it), I forget which one, who mentioned that even though Protestants can have a great relationship with Jesus, they can never attain the kind of relationship the saints did. Compare the most spiritual Protestant with the likes of Padre Pio or St. Therese the Little Flower.

That makes sense to me.

MarcoPolo:

At any rate, I wouldn’t blanketly grant Protestants “one-upping” all Catholics in spirituality.

Neither would I. I mentioned in at least one of my posts earlier that I was generalizing.

MarcoPolo:

With Catholicism rooted so much in the new Law of Christ, and many branches of Protestantism having no “obligatory” “mass” attendance, there is the chance that you will see the more “willing” bunch of Protestants on Sundays than you might in a Catholic Church.

That’s a very good point. I hadn’t thought of that.

MarcoPolo:

There is a psychological tendency for otherwise lapse Catholics to go to mass to “check it off the list” and go about their week as if they were not Catholic. The devil’s influence is in this. That’s why I thought, perhaps comparing Catholics who voluntarily go to spiritual adoration or other services to the Protestants, and you can see the tremendous spirituality in the Catholics much stronger.

That’s a really interesting point. I will keep that in mind from now on. I really hadn’t thought of that, but that’s a great point I can use when talking with Protestant father about this. Not that I’ll say those at the Adoration tend to usually have stronger spiritual relationships with God- I may believe that, but it can’t be proven, so it’s worthless as an argument. That this being a better basis for comparison is a very good point.

By the way, you mentioned a lot of things no one here has mentioned (and which I, for one, had never thought of before), which are really excellent points, so you don’t have to worry about being repetitious.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

An unnecessary post- content dumped.

 

[mark_a]

This is just one way of many of hearing God, and I agree, Mark, it should definitely not be to the exclusion of worship. In fact, hearing God’s voice tends to inspire me to joy, worship and thankfulness. It doesn’t exclude it.

Thanks for clearing this up. I took your original intent the wrong way.

My bad.

Sorry.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Thanks for clearing this up. I took your original intent the wrong way.

My bad.

Sorry.

Okay, good . . . thanks .

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Lief, in answer to your comment! If I disagree I’ll let you know!

Great .

Who says I was disagreeing! Just moderating, though I’m not in a position to make the comparison, you are!

k

Every now and then I want to use an Aussie phrase. I have to change the words, which takes the fun out of it, because no one but an Australian would understand the phrase.

Lol.

 

[MarcoPolo]

That’s a really interesting point. I will keep that in mind from now on. I really hadn’t thought of that, but that’s a great point I can use when talking with Protestant father about this. Not that I’ll say those at the Adoration tend to usually have stronger spiritual relationships with God- I may believe that, but it can’t be proven, so it’s worthless as an argument. That this being a better basis for comparison is a very good point.

By the way, you mentioned a lot of things no one here has mentioned (and which I, for one, had never thought of before), which are really excellent points, so you don’t have to worry about being repetitious.

Thank you, Lief. When the great explorers Lief Erikson and Marco Polo get together, discoveries are made.

 

[SawGodThere]

Thanks for clearing this up. I took your original intent the wrong way.

My bad.

Sorry.

I think that I owe both Mark and Lief an apology.

Lief - in attempting to defend your post, I interpreted what you said in a way that may or may not have actually been what you meant. I apologize.

Mark - I apologize for seeming somewhat rude in my post towards you. And now, we all seem to realize what the other meant. I simply meant to stand up to something that I fealt sure Lief could do. Sorry, I was a bit dry toward you, but I think we actually look at this with similar ideas.

Sorry y’all.

Peace,
Nik

 

[Lief_Erikson]

"SawGodThere:

Lief - in attempting to defend your post, I interpreted what you said in a way that may or may not have actually been what you meant. I apologize.

No, you interpreted it just as I meant it, and I appreciated what you said.

I think we can all learn from our Protestant brethren. Often, they do develop very close personal relationships with God that many Catholics lack. Although I believe that Catholicism is “the way to go” as far as learning about God and provides a better road for following God, I think that if we take a step back and look at our Protestant brothers and sisters, we will learn quite a bit about personal relationships. This is my experience, and I will even say that it is because of protestants that I have the relationship with God that I do. With some Catholics, the tradition and the large amount of knowledge that goes into Mass and the Catholic Church can sort of bog them down, and they don’t see God in that personal light. Of course, there are many Catholics who still have a personal relationship with God. In most Protestand Churches, the focus is not on reciting prayers and lines, and singing ancient hymns, it is on knowing God, so although they are often not as well-versed as Catholics, they develop this personal relationship. But when a Christian combines the personal relationship, with the tradition and knowledge that the Catholic Church provides, then that person is a true man or woman of God.

I think that’s very true, and I really like you put it.

The prayers, liturgy and hymns of the Catholic Church are glorious ways for me to experience God, and I feel that the richness of them is tragically missed in most Protestant services. They shouldn’t be mere recitation. We should try to interpret each scripture reading we hear as God’s special, personal message to me for this day, trying to find out how it applies to my life or what God means through it for me, and we should pray the hymns rather than sing them, and pray the liturgy. And when the priest gives his homily, perhaps that is God’s way of speaking to us too. All the Mass is pretty much one big interactive prayer for us to participate, every line a blessing from God or from us, or a prayer from us or a word from God. The whole Catholic service is designed to be both deeply personal and majestically glorious. I think that that’s how we should see it and try to experience it.

To me, the Protestant churches lose a lot when they subtract all of this, and Catholics lose a lot when they go through all of the motions of the service without experiencing each one of them as a prayer from us or a word from God. However, as you say, many times Protestants have a LOT to offer in terms of personal experience of God. And so do many Catholics.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Come to think of it, I probably should have saved for PM what I felt God wanted me to tell dang. I just became aware of a ban on relating those kinds of messages in this forum . I thought of PMing what I said to dang, but just decided to submit it where I did because that was where the conversation was taking place.

I’ll tell a moderator about my mistake and hope for the best.