Protestants, please explain

[StealthGoblin]

Originally Posted by Trinity1984:

I am a Lutheran who affirms the real presence of Christ in the sacrament. I don’t feel a need to argue for the truth of that being citing the scripture you did though. I don’t believe Jesus Christ was speaking about the sacrament of Holy Communion. It had not even been instituted yet.

---

The interesting thing (I think) is that Jesus also early in John speaks of the necessity of being Born Again (or From Above). Jesus tells this to Nicodemus before the Crucifixion, before Pentecost, and before the Apostolic mission to baptize in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit. In my opinion, just because Jesus has not yet instituted the Eucharistic Supper in the narrative, there is no good reason, based on other themes within John, to preclude this from being seen as a reference to the Eucharist.

 

[O.S.Luke]

There is however one thing I want to state:. If a churchman looks at his ministry as his “profession” instead of as his “vocation”, man’s interest prevail first, rather than God’s will.

jpaul

You’re going to have to help me with that. Where did that statement come from?

Having said that… profession became bastardized as a secular word with business connotations; it began as a word on as how one lived out their life and faith. If one proactively lives out their baptismal (and ordination) vows, one certainly professes it. Ministry is both a profession AND a vocation; it is a both/and, not an either/or.

Pax,

O+

 

[Exsilium]

youtube.com/watch?v=NoEfp2eEA1c&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ecatholic%2Dtube%2Ecom%2F Protestant man charges through a church. Perhaps possesed?

 

[O.S.Luke]

I have not had the time to read all the posts since the initial post, but I would like to comment (if nobody has already) that not all Protestants reject the Real Presence. Many Lutherans (especially confessional Lutherans, and if one considers them Protestant) believe in the Real Presence: they believe that the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Christ. I’ve also read that Calvin held to some sort of Real Presence, although he did not believe the bread and wine became the Body and Blood of Christ the same way Luther did. I don’t know if Reformed folk follow Calvin in his interpretations on the Eucharist.

Most Reformed folks tend to be more Zwinglian and Calvinist regarding the Eucharist and sacramental theology; Zwingli embraced the “real absence of Christ” at the Table, and vehemently argued with Luther at the Marburg Colloquy regarding the Real Presence. Luther was literal, where Zwingli saw it more as metaphor. That’s a bit of an oversimplificartion, but close.

 

[jpaul]

You’re going to have to help me with that. Where did that statement come from?

Having said that… profession became bastardized as a secular word with business connotations; it began as a word on as how one lived out their life and faith. If one proactively lives out their baptismal (and ordination) vows, one certainly professes it. Ministry is both a profession AND a vocation; it is a both/and, not an either/or.

Pax,

O+

Peace and all-good!

An observation here in the Philippines is that Protestant Pastors or even some nominal Catholics may convert and even accept pastorship in the Fundamentalist Protestant ministries because of the financial gain available for them (from the United States).

That observation could not be too obvious in USA where poverty is not an issue, but if a Protestant pastor knew the truth (that the Catholic Church is the true church founded by Christ) and yet remained a Protestant because he earns his living from being one, then he is compromising the truth of the Gospel.

Saint Paul said, **“We cannot do anything againsts the truth, but only for the sake of truth.” **(2 Cor. 13: 8).

Ave Maria!

jpaul

 

[Nella]

This has probably been discussed numerous times on CAF, but after doing a brief search I did not find a satisfactory explanation.

After reading John, chapter 6,(the whole chapter, not just selected verses), how can the Real Presence in the Holy Eucharist be denied? I have read it with both a Catholic lens and a Protestant lens. What am I missing?
How can the words mean other than what they say? How do you explain this?

Thanks in advance.

I have to agree with what Scripture says as well. I am Protestant and I believe in the Real Presence. I am curious as to what Protestant lens you would be referring to. There are many different Protestant lenses.

 

[Indyann]

I have to agree with what Scripture says as well. I am Protestant and I believe in the Real Presence. I am curious as to what Protestant lens you would be referring to. There are many different Protestant lenses.

No offense intended. I personally know of no Protestants who believe that the Holy Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. (Why would they remain Protestant if they did, as only a priest can confect the Eucharist)

All of the Protestants I know believe Jesus was speaking symbolically. So by Protestant lens, I meant that I read the Scripture as though I already thought He was speaking symbolically. I read it over and over again, but still couldn’t understand why one would not believe Christ’s words.

 

[jpaul]

No offense intended. I personally know of no Protestants who believe that the Holy Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. (Why would they remain Protestant if they did, as only a priest can confect the Eucharist)

All of the Protestants I know believe Jesus was speaking symbolically. So by Protestant lens, I meant that I read the Scripture as though I already thought He was speaking symbolically. I read it over and over again, but still couldn’t understand why one would not believe Christ’s words.

Peace and all-good!

There is no valid reason for anyone to remained a Protestant. Had I been born a Protestant, I would convert myself and my household to the true Church founded by Jesus Christ the soonest possible time.

Ave Maria!

jpaul

 

[Nella]

No offense intended. I personally know of no Protestants who believe that the Holy Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. (Why would they remain Protestant if they did, as only a priest can confect the Eucharist)

All of the Protestants I know believe Jesus was speaking symbolically. So by Protestant lens, I meant that I read the Scripture as though I already thought He was speaking symbolically. I read it over and over again, but still couldn’t understand why one would not believe Christ’s words.

Iould have to respectfully say to you that you are ignorant of other denomintions besides your own. I am a Protestant that fully believes that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist every Sunday in my church as does our priest and parish. We partake in the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ. Why one would not become catholic with this belief is really just your question and your opinion.

 

[Indyann]

Iould have to respectfully say to you that you are ignorant of other denomintions besides your own. I am a Protestant that fully believes that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist every Sunday in my church as does our priest and parish. We partake in the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ. Why one would not become catholic with this belief is really just your question and your opinion.

Well, I must respectfully say to you that you are answering a question that was not directed to you. I explained that I was directing this question to those who claim that John, 6 is speaking symbolically.

As you pointed out, I am ignorant of other denominations and that is exactly why I asked for an explanation. That is why I read the non-catholic posts.

Of course, it is my question and my opinion. Why would I post someone else’s questions?
Whose opinions are you posting?

 

[O.S.Luke]

Peace and all-good!

An observation here in the Philippines is that Protestant Pastors or even some nominal Catholics may convert and even accept pastorship in the Fundamentalist Protestant ministries because of the financial gain available for them (from the United States).

That observation could not be too obvious in USA where poverty is not an issue, but if a Protestant pastor knew the truth (that the Catholic Church is the true church founded by Christ) and yet remained a Protestant because he earns his living from being one, then he is compromising the truth of the Gospel.
jpaul

1. Protestants take the ministry as seriously as Catholics. Anyone converting to become a pastor for any reason other than being called and set apart by God is compromising the Gospel.
2. I would like to say that poverty isn’t an issue in the USA… but I fear that it is. Certainly not to the extent of poverty in the Philippines.

And I’m not quite following you (?). Sorry.

O+

 

[O.S.Luke]

No offense intended. I personally know of no Protestants who believe that the Holy Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. (Why would they remain Protestant if they did, as only a priest can confect the Eucharist)

All of the Protestants I know believe Jesus was speaking symbolically. So by Protestant lens, I meant that I read the Scripture as though I already thought He was speaking symbolically. I read it over and over again, but still couldn’t understand why one would not believe Christ’s words.

Many Protestants believe in the Real Presence. My communion is one of them. But we don’t believe God’s power to “confect” the Eucharist is limited to priests in the Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox Church.

O+

 

[Fisher]

I believe in the Real Presence.
Where I disagree with my Catholic brothers & sisters, is that I don’t believe that they are the only ones who have the Real Presence.

After much prayer & study & discussion, I have come to the conclusion that it is better for me to simply accept this as one of the mysteries of faith, & not try any longer to figure out the details of the “how” part…Jesus said it is His Body & it is His Blood, and I am not going to argue with Him!!!

God bless all here.

Does it turn into flesh ? or does it just has the presence in it?

 

[Nella]

Well, I must respectfully say to you that you are answering a question that was not directed to you. I explained that I was directing this question to those who claim that John, 6 is speaking symbolically.

As you pointed out, I am ignorant of other denominations and that is exactly why I asked for an explanation. That is why I read the non-catholic posts.

Of course, it is my question and my opinion. Why would I post someone else’s questions?
Whose opinions are you posting?

No offense taken, I just wanted to make the point that not all Protestants are alike. I was once Catholic and I certainly am familiar with how Catholics will lump Protestants all together to be the same thing. This is a grave mistake given the Anglican church which the RC views as Protestant contains all 7 sacrements, believes in the Real Presence and celebrates the communion of saints the same way Catholics do. I know your question wasn’t directed at me, but I found it necessary to enlighten you on these things. I’m in no way calling you stupid, please don’t think that I did. Years ago, I felt all Protestants were different from Catholics but I have since been educated on the facts.

 

[O.S.Luke]

A good post, Nella. Thank you.

O+

 

[christcnection1]

Nella:

I was once Catholic and I certainly am familiar with how Catholics will lump Protestants all together to be the same thing.

I was once a Protestant and I certainly am familiar with how Protestants will lump Catholics all together to be the same thing.

It sounds like you believe all Catholics believe the same thing about Protestants. That’s a ridiculous charge, just as my statement in blue is a ridiculous charge.

Years ago, I felt all Protestants were different from Catholics but I have since been educated on the facts.

All Protestants are different from Catholics. That is a fact. The Anglicans are closer than most, but there are still significant differences.

Your point is well-taken. It’s very possible that Indyann agrees with you, but their point came out the wrong way. (Most Protestants don’t see things the same way as Anglicans.)

I suspect misunderstandings happens a lot on CAF.

God Bless,
JB

 

[Bible_Student]

There is something very special and sacred about communion just as 1-Cor 11:27-33 implies,
“Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.”
I know Christ is present in the receiving. I just don’t think He is in the elements but instead in the rememberance that the Lord’s Supper represents to us as Christians. I say that because I believe the body of Christ is the Church of which He is the head. (The Church being all who hope, trust, obey and believe in Him) We are the temple of the Holy Spirit 1 Cor 3:17 and 6:19 in which the Lord is present and we are only able to be that holy temple if we come to Him knowing His blood paid for our sins and worship Him in Spirit and Truth, having a good confession and a pure heart before Him. What a terrible thing to take the Lord’s presence for granted - it must be with all humility realizing the price of that sacrifice. Although I do not share quite the same theology as Catholics I do very much admire your reverence and respect for Holy Communion and the Eucharisto. I believe Protestants sometimes forget its sacredness to the Christian and what it symbolizes.
May God Bles, Pat

 

[Nella]

There is something very special and sacred about communion just as 1-Cor 11:27-33 implies,
“Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.”
I know Christ is present in the receiving. I just don’t think He is in the elements but instead in the rememberance that the Lord’s Supper represents to us as Christians. I say that because I believe the body of Christ is the Church of which He is the head. (The Church being all who hope, trust, obey and believe in Him) We are the temple of the Holy Spirit 1 Cor 3:17 and 6:19 in which the Lord is present and we are only able to be that holy temple if we come to Him knowing His blood paid for our sins and worship Him in Spirit and Truth, having a good confession and a pure heart before Him. What a terrible thing to take the Lord’s presence for granted - it must be with all humility realizing the price of that sacrifice. Although I do not share quite the same theology as Catholics I do very much admire your reverence and respect for Holy Communion and the Eucharisto. I believe Protestants sometimes forget its sacredness to the Christian and what it symbolizes.
May God Bles, Pat

That’s a pretty fair statement I would say except not all Protestants consider Holy Communion in such a downplayed way.