Protestants: please stop using the label "Bible-believing"

[GottaGo12345678]

That is true. I have come to the same conclusion from my discussions with her in another thread.

Guanophore:

And when it gets too difficult she exits. I have a feeling she is afraid to face the truth because it is easier to believe the lie.

You both should be ashamed of yourselves for discussing Janet on the thread as opposed to using the PM function; it just demonstrates to everyone your uncharitable motivations.

:tsktsk:

 

[GottaGo12345678]

Considering the propensity of some protestant denominations to truncate whole passages to suit their own theology (completely severing the passage from its context!) , that seems to be a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

And it is not just one passage of Scripture. There is also the primacy of Peter in John 21.

I agree, two passages, as I already addressed earlier. Doesn’t detract from the shock and amazement.

 

[GottaGo12345678]

Au contraire. YOU **completely overlook **that JESUS (i.e. GOD HIMSELF) has GIVEN this power to Peter with the words : Whatever YOU (meaning Peter) bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever YOU (meaning Peter) loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

So here we get to the heart of the title of this thread. You probably call yourself a “Bible believing” protestant and yet here it is, Christ’s own words, staring you right in the face and yet you refuse to believe Him.

So as far as you are concerned, the thread title applies.

Jesus may have been speaking to a crowd in Matthew 18 and Matthew 25 but this has nothing to do wiht BINDING AND LOOSING. In fact the phrase “binding and loosing” was not evern mentioned in either of these two chapters.

So which chapter does Jesus SPECIFICALLY mention these words? Matthew 16 .

So here we go back to the verse. WHO was GIVEN the keys (that is the authority to open and shut)? Peter. And this is where most protestants do most of their sidestepping. The fact that the authority was GIVEN to Peter. By himself, Peter did not have the authority. But **God CHOSE to GIVE him that authority. **

It seems to me that you have a major problem with God’s CHOICES

Mt 18:18
"Truly I say to you, **whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven. **

Again; I come back to what is mythical and what the actual reality is, but you chose to live in a world of myth and many people chose to do the same, you are not alone; it is all about choice and I respect your choice although i disagree with it and know the consequences choices can have.

Reality shows that all the apostles and anyone that can deliver their message, as the “Great Commission” commands all Christians to do, has the authority via the message of the gospel to either open the door to heaven or to shut them out. This is the real world, not the Land of Oz. What is the very purpose of a Christian; ask yourself that? Then ask yourself; am I that person?

 

[GottaGo12345678]

I am amazed how lacking protdestant are of christ in there hearts! the hate and sarcasim from them is a disgrace and is inapropiate. I was once protestant and went to college to become a pastor and came out Catholic instead. I assure you that you cannot have the Bible alone and truely understand the meanings! I did a test once on a protestant by giving him a swedish novel translated to english to read and after he did, he was so far off from the basic meanings of the story. This is what happens but worse with protestants! I could site verse for verse all kinds of scripure, but was mazed how far off protestant translation was from what I learned from greek, hebrew, latin language and the way poeple talked in general in biblical history. If one is truely inclined to know God with an sincere heart then they will search on there own and educate themselves thoroughly and I assure they will find the Catholic church.

Mt 7:2
“For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.”

“For one to become Mormon is either young and foolish, uneducated and not taking god serious enough, or simply fake wanting to be a part of something even if it is an occult.”

“You are also manipulative as far as saying these comments, especially from the Baptist was not of an hateful manner. I will pray that you will open your eyes and ears to the truth and let go of the dishonesty. Good luck”

“but to make action without in depth research and prayer is foolish and disrespectful to God. As I am an educated person of the Torah and Bible, a Catholic (converted)”

“Yes the Mormon church is an abomination and yes there congregation is damned but however when it comes to government, we cannot expect it to jump in and defend Christ against such an heretic occult. It is up to us Christians to fight against the Mormon occult. And if do not succeed then that’s ok, but the souls of this occult will surely meet there false prophet Joseph Smith in the deepest part of hell! Even scientology is less offensive than the Mormons! To say god was one a man and the occult member and his wife can become a god is the most distasteful thing and is surely a product of an antichrist!”

“No offense but someone who believes God was once a man and that a man can become a God shouldn’t be giving opinions on anything!”

“we believe in the teachings of the apostles handed down from Christ, not the vein arrogance of Luther and the Billy Bob pastors that have a different theory on a corner of every block.”

 

[jake23]

Mt 7:2
“For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.”

then I guess protestants are screwed! as said in previouse posts, lets pray for them; and please stop manipulating this thread

 

[GottaGo12345678]

The Bible speaks plainly of Jesus asking Peter to feed his sheep. How do you reconcile this not happening? Especially to the point of accusing someone of folly when they read the scripture and believe what Jesus plainly asked Peter to do 3 times no less!

It’s amazing how you “Bible believers” can completely disregard what the Bible says in order to suit your distorted view of Christianity

1 Peter 5:1-4 [Peter of the Bible speaking]
1 Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as {your} fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, 2 shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to {the will of} God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness; 3 nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock. 4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.

Verse 2 Shepherd: poimainō - to feed, to tend a flock, keep sheep
to rule, govern, to supply the requisites for the soul’s need (where we get the word Pastor)

Verse 1 Elder: presbyteros - a term of rank or office, among the Christians, those who presided over the assemblies (or churches) The **NT uses the term bishop, elders, and presbyters interchangeably
**

Verse 1 Fellow: sympresbyteros a fellow elder

Verse 3 Lording: katakyrieuō - to hold in subjection, to be master of, exercise lordship over (Is this an issue with hierarchical religious systems?)

I think the real issue is why don’t you follow Peter’s example; he obviously knew what Jesus meant or was Peter wrong as well?

 

[GottaGo12345678]

then I guess protestants are screwed! as said in previouse posts, lets pray for them; and please stop manipulating this thread

You don’t get it; it is not all about you. Your wanting to hold hands in prayers for the pitiful Protestants is an artificial gesture at best. Why not just apologize for putting yourself above others based on your education and religious beliefs as stated in your charitable posts. What would Jesus have you do?

 

[jake23]

You don’t get it; it is not all about you. Your wanting to hold hands in prayers for the pitiful Protestants is an artificial gesture at best. Why not just apologize for putting yourself above others based on your education and religious beliefs as stated in your charitable posts. What would Jesus have you do?

sorry if you ten to misinterpret things but I am not above everyone, I am simply somoene who is found after being lost and only wish for others to have the same blessings! it isnt about me, I am only one of 1.2 Billion catholics who wish for everyone to be in communion as one body.

Its sounds like there is allot of animosity you are holding inside.

 

[GottaGo12345678]

sorry if you ten to misinterpret things but I am not above everyone, I am simply somoene who is found after being lost and only wish for others to have the same blessings! it isnt about me, I am only one of 1.2 Billion catholics who wish for everyone to be in communion as one body.

Its sounds like there is allot of animosity you are holding inside.

Nope; just trying to get you to see yourself; as in a mirror. You still cannot help yourself by looking at the first line you wrote. Humility is the place where God comes and meets the lost sinners.

 

[steve_b]

:
Originally Posted by GottaGo12345678 forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif

gotta:

Your last paragraph on the "bishop of Rome" having a greater authority or respect among the earliest church is unfounded. If you were to say Jerusalem; at least there would some Biblical evidence to that; but not Rome. That came into effect when Emperor Constantine made Christianity, at least a form of it, the official religion of the Roman Empire. Out of that emerged the Roman Catholic Church we see today

with that reasoning we could better show Jerusalem as the greater authority since all the apostles were there. Acts 15 “Paul and Barnabas and some others of them should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders concerning this issue…The apostles and the elders came together to look into this matter. After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them,…”

• Re: Your 1st comment While John is still alive, and before he wrote Revelations, Clement, Bp of Rome, 3rd successor to St Peter settled sedition among the bishops in Corinth. For Clement to be authoritative over other bishops in another country, shows a difference in hierarchy of his authority. St Ignatius , Bp of Antioch, a disciple of John the apostle not only called the Church the Catholic Church, but to the Church of Rome only, he wrote held the presidency. St Ignatius was a 1st century bishop. He and Clement lived DURING apostolic times. Now, Constantine was 200 years later. If you want to go over the facts of history with names, places and dates just say so.
• Your 2nd comment shows the authority of Peter. His see is Rome.

gotta:

It shouldn’t come as a surprise the Corinthians needed more help; Paul had a real difficult time keeping them in line with the message.

That doesn’t negate the point that it was the Bp of Rome, Clement that settled their sedition. If ALL bishops had the same authority, then Corinth could have gone to MANY locations closer to themselves than Rome. Galatia, Thessolonika, Ephesus etc.

 

[greggy53]

1 Peter 5:1-4 [Peter of the Bible speaking]
1 Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as {your} fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, 2 shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to {the will of} God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness; 3 nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock. 4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.

Gottago says: “”There is no appointment of Jesus to take the place of the Chief Shepherd; that is folly on your part.”

OK, what are you trying to say here?? You said in your statement above that there was no appointment for Peter to Sheppard God’s flock…So what is he doing here in the scripture you quoted above? He is doing exactly what Jesus asked him to do. He, as chief Sheppard, and Pope is leading and teaching others in the way of the priesthood. Here Peter is speaking boldly as leader of the Church. You guys should take more care in what scriptures you throw around. You paint yourself into a corner with it every time!

Here is the real scripture from1st Peter quoted properly: 1 The ancients therefore that are among you, I beseech, who am myself also an ancient, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ: as also a partaker of that glory which is to be revealed in time to come: 2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking care of it, not by constraint, but willingly, according to God: not for filthy lucre’s sake, but voluntarily: 3 Neither as lording it over the clergy, but being made a pattern of the flock from the heart. 4 And when the prince of pastors shall appear, you shall receive a never fading crown of glory.

 

[steve_b]

Originally Posted by steve b forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
*Here is what Jesus said and did for Peter, in front of ALL the apostles. *
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…&postcount=102

I am fully aware and have studied extensively on this, but you have a mythological view of Peter that is far removed from Scripture and the reality of how Peter and the other apostles viewed Peter.

Don’t take offense, but that’s not how it works. You need to show your work. Refute the points I made from that link point by point… That means refute the Greek, refute the definitions of the Greek words, and refute the conclusion.
gotta:

I do stand corrected on one thing; billions of people throughout the ages till today have a religion built on 2, not 1, passages of Scripture, at least in my opinion and observations based on experience and the Word.

The Word is a person. The 2nd Person of the Blessed Trinity. The one who spoke in the beginning and all things were made. Jesus Christ the Word of God, created the Catholic Church alone, and put Peter in charge to feed, rule, and confirm His Church.

• Peter is Rock that Jesus builds His Church upon
• Peter can bind and loose alone
• Peter has the keys of the kingdom of God
• Peter speaks for Jesus
• Peter is the head apostle ergo head of the Church
• Peter is to feed and rule the Church

Now Jesus did ALL of that for Peter. But who is the ONE who really is behind what Jesus said here? It’s the Father!

Jn 5:19
the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

Jn 12:49
For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.

Jn 12:50
whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."
Jn 14:10
The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
Jn 14:31
I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.

 

[GottaGo12345678]

• Re: Your 1st comment While John is still alive, and before he wrote Revelations, Clement, Bp of Rome, 3rd successor to St Peter settled sedition among the bishops in Corinth. For Clement to be authoritative over other bishops in another country, shows a difference in hierarchy of his authority. St Ignatius , Bp of Antioch, a disciple of John the apostle not only called the Church the Catholic Church, but to the Church of Rome only, he wrote held the presidency. St Ignatius was a 1st century bishop. He and Clement lived DURING apostolic times. Now, Constantine was 200 years later. If you want to go over the facts of history with names, places and dates just say so.
• Your 2nd comment shows the authority of Peter. His see is Rome.

That doesn’t negate the point that it was the Bp of Rome, Clement that settled their sedition. If ALL bishops had the same authority, then Corinth could have gone to MANY locations closer to themselves than Rome. Galatia, Thessolonika, Ephesus etc.

Perhaps they wrote specifically to Clement as a person and not because of his position since Paul and Clement were friends and the Corinthians trusted Paul, who had been martyred before this letter. Since we do not know either way because the letter does not say; both of us are merely speculating. Furthermore; there is nothing regarding “settling of sedition”; unless you mean addressing and giving exhortation and encouragement.

I have read the letter you refer to St Ignatius and again you are imposing to that which cannot be shown or can be shown contrary because it is just speculation. The Church of Rome is like saying the Church or Corinth; big deal. Yes they used proper capitalization where appropriate.

Do you suppose we can speculate as to why the ecf’s never referred to Peter as being a Bishop of the Church at Rome? Paul neither.

All you have to do to see what the Roman Catholic Church looks like today is to look at the origins, which emerged out of the forced conversions of pagans to Christianity under Emperor Constantine in the early 300’s. Where do you suppose your Church got all those saints that don’t even exist except by myth or legend?

You have to look at truth from experience, real world reality, and Scripture, then separate that from myth and mysticism.

 

[Robbinson]

Nope; just trying to get you to see yourself; as in a mirror. You still cannot help yourself by looking at the first line you wrote. Humility is the place where God comes and meets the lost sinners.

I don’t see humility, charity or love in your posts - so this post to another here from you is a tad ironic.

You can disagree with folks here and perhaps you don’t “see it” in your posts (it is hard to read “tone” in emails), but your posts, at least in this thread, do appear judgemental and demeaning of other christian views.

As to your scriptural analysis - I don’t agree with most of what you have written, but I respect viewpoint and always enjoy dialoging with other believers. Just lets all keep the love of Christ in our hearts and in our posts - agreed?

Blessings,

Brian

 

[GottaGo12345678]

Gottago says: “”There is no appointment of Jesus to take the place of the Chief Shepherd; that is folly on your part.”

Benedictus2:

Quote:
Naaah. In John 21, Jesus says to Peter : feed MY sheep, feed MY lambs. So Jesus here is actually telling Peter to be guardian of HIS (Jesus’s) sheep. So while Jesus is Eternal Shepherd, He has appointed someone else (Peter) to look after His (Jesus’s) Sheep.
GottaGo:

It is called a shepherd and there are many of them because their are many little flocks, which only the Chief Shepherd, can watch over as one flock. There is no appointment of Jesus to take the place of the Chief Shepherd; that is folly on your part

OK, what are you trying to say here?? You said in your statement above that there was no appointment for Peter to Sheppard God’s flock…So what is he doing here in the scripture you quoted above? He is doing exactly what Jesus asked him to do. He, as chief Sheppard, and Pope is leading and teaching others in the way of the priesthood. Here Peter is speaking boldly as leader of the Church. You guys should take more care in what scriptures you throw around. You paint yourself into a corner with it every time!

Here is the real scripture from1st Peter quoted properly: 1 The ancients therefore that are among you, I beseech, who am myself also an ancient, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ: as also a partaker of that glory which is to be revealed in time to come: 2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking care of it, not by constraint, but willingly, according to God: not for filthy lucre’s sake, but voluntarily: 3 Neither as lording it over the clergy, but being made a pattern of the flock from the heart. 4 And when the prince of pastors shall appear, you shall receive a never fading crown of glory.

Hey brother, don’t address my posts if you are going to take out the true context of the message. It speaks for itself in proper context.

 

[Bill_Pick]

He who hears you hears me…Jesus refering to the Catholic Chuch

As Jesus says in Holy Scripture…you can’t be part of His church if you reject what the church teaches…you are in reality rejecting HIM.

The Scripture according His alond

 

[GottaGo12345678]

Don’t take offense, but that’s not how it works. You need to show your work. Refute the points I made from that link point by point… That means refute the Greek, refute the definitions of the Greek words, and refute the conclusion.

The Word is a person. The 2nd Person of the Blessed Trinity. The one who spoke in the beginning and all things were made. Jesus Christ the Word of God, created the Catholic Church alone, and put Peter in charge to feed, rule, and confirm His Church.

• Peter is Rock that Jesus builds His Church upon
• Peter can bind and loose alone
• Peter has the keys of the kingdom of God
• Peter speaks for Jesus
• Peter is the head apostle ergo head of the Church
• Peter is to feed and rule the Church

Now Jesus did ALL of that for Peter. But who is the ONE who really is behind what Jesus said here? It’s the Father!

Jn 5:19
the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

Jn 12:49
For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.

Jn 12:50
whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."
Jn 14:10
The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
Jn 14:31
I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.

Give me a break and come down to earth and stay a while. Shouldn’t you be putting the source for your copy and pasting?

 

[Bill_Pick]

I completely do not understand your post. What you expect to point and not get rebutted. What is the point of joining this forum? You want to have your say but you cry foul when others have theirs?

If you can’t take the heat, the kitchen door is wide open.

I was thinging people come here to ask questions,am I wrong or if someone does not like the answer they can run,believe me Janet is a big girle and can take care of her self ,she does not need help from some one who is not smart

 

[MDK]

Here is the primary difference between you misinterpretation and my correct interpretation; the reality of what we experience in the real world and the reality of all the people that have preached and continue to preach the gospel and those who keep rejecting are bound and those that accept become Christians, which are the building stones of the church of God. There is myth and there is reality. Won’t you see the reality and dispel the myth?

The reality we see is that your behavior is prideful and arrogant. We all have to be humble to come to God. Without humility, we’ll never see God. And with you, that’s showing… your theology and the fruits of your personal exegetical efforts are simply off course. It would be comical if it wasn’t a serious issue, but you would be doing yourself a huge favor by stepping back and learning from the ones whom Christ sent, instead of rejecting them. As Christ said, by rejecting those He sent, you are also rejecting Christ.

Perhaps you could start with exegesis of a non-Biblical text, like the previous sentence, before you work your way up to understanding the Word of God. For that, you need to submit to those Jesus sent to continue His mission anyway. If you need help determining the implications of the last sentence of the previous paragraph in relation to a personal relationship with Christ, there are many on CAF who can provide assistance to you. It has profound implications, and I don’t think Christ was joking when he taught that. For your own benefit, please use two eyes and two ears a lot more than the output right now. But, you have to look in the right place as well, God’s Catholic Church. Assistance is indeed what you need most. No one needs what you’re trying foist, you included.

 

[greggy53]

Hey brother, don’t address my posts if you are going to take out the true context of the message. It speaks for itself in proper context.

I don’t believe I took any of your comments out of context. You like to quote a lot of scripture, and if I choose not to comment on them or anything else you say I may for expediency and clarity edit them out of my response. I am not deleting anything from your original posts, and I am under no obligation to include your entire post in any of my responses.