Protestants: please stop using the label "Bible-believing"

[GottaGo12345678]

And how do you know that for a fact?

But how do you know that the Bible is indeed the Word of God?

But Scripture did not write itself. The Church through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit wrote the Scripture. The Church through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit decided on which books are to form the canon of Scripture.

The Church came before the Bible and because of this the Church alone can properly interpret the Bible.

If you are an artist and you made a painting, you are the best interpreter of that painting.

Similarly with the Church. Since the Bible came from the Church, she is the one who can best interpret her own writing.

I’ve had enough of your basic 101 folly. You either come to God on His terms or you don’t. The truth is in the Bible; you can continue to play religion or you can get serious about your eternal destiny; that is your choice, but it is not a game to play with God.

 

[GottaGo12345678]

Are these noble examples of the Line of Peter, even if many Popes were good and just. They still had supported the Crusades, Inquisition, Burned Heretics, Burned Witches and must I mention supporting the Spanish in the greatest American geneocide of native peoples in History in the Name of God through your Church.

Pope Sergius III (904 - 911) obtained his office by murder. He fathered several illegitimate children by Marozia, who assassinated Pope Leo VI (928 - 929), and put her own teenage son (John XI) as Pope.

Pope John XII (955 - 964) is described in the Catholic encyclopedia as a coarse, immoral man. The Catholic collection of the lives of the Popes, the “Liber Pontificalis” said: “He spent his entire life in adultery.” Catholic bishop Luitprand states that “he had no respect for single girls, married woman or widows - they were sure to be defiled by him.”

Pope John XV (985 - 996) split the churches finances among his relatives and was described as “covetous of filthy lucre and corrupt in all his acts.”

Pope Benedict IX (1033 - 1045) committed murders and adulteries in broad daylight, robbed pilgrims, and was regarded as a hideous criminal. The people drove him out of Rome: The Catholic encyclopedia says, “He was a disgrace to the chair of Peter.”

Pope Innocent III (1198 - 1216) promoted the Inquisition, surpassing all his predecessors.

Pope Alexander VI (1492 - 1503) committed incest with his two sisters and daughter. On October 31, 1501 he conducted the worst ever sex orgy in the Vatican.

Pope Stephen VI (896 - 897) brought the dead body of former Pope Formosus (891 - 897) to trial, hacked off his decaying finger and had him dragged through the streets of Rome and thrown into the Tiber river.

So I would say by these examples these are hardly worthy successors to the way of Jesus. Many of the heretics seemed to be far more moral than your Church, you know the ones your Popes persecuted and burned on fires.

Fresh air; coming up for air before going back down…thanks!

 

[GottaGo12345678]

Your so-called reformers are no less quity of persecutions, tortures and murder.
One of the great leaders of your “reformation” chopped off the heads of Catholics who dared to disagree with him. You see he wanted to commit adultry, but the Pope said no so he started his own church and made everbody agree to it or they lost their heads on the chopping block…So be careful when you throw stones

We don’t follow the office; you do. We follow the Person of Christ, the head of the church in heaven and EARTH.

 

[GottaGo12345678]

“Roman” as a qualifier began as a polemic by Anglicans.
newadvent.org/cathen/13121a.htm

The title of the Church, is the Catholic Church. It is headquartered in Rome. And NO it didn’t start in Constantine’s day. That’s why EC F’s quotes have been given over and over and over, DURING apostolic times and after to refute your comment…

As for St Christopher
newadvent.org/cathen/03728a.htm

As to your other comments you’ll have to be more specific. And please show your sources

Who’s feeding you this stuff

your litmus is based on misinformation. Therefore if you’re going to be consistant, you’d have to toss out the canon of scripture also.

You labor under many misconceptions. Maybe this Q & A will help correct this
catholic.com/thisrock/quickquestions/keyword/St.%20Christopher

He would say, stop giving parking space in your head to all the antiCatholic junk you’ve learned.

Peter’s office as head apostle, and leader of the Church, was established by God. THAT’S what Jesus would say. And it didn’t die with Peter. And It didn’t start after 312. It wasn’t invented by man. All that stuff got started by heretics trying to justify their own disobedience to the faith delivered once to the saints.

What’s overshelming is the amount of evidence supporting the Catholic Church.

Thanks for the blessing. Same in return

I have my facts straight; it is you that do not want to see the truth as the Bible teaches. There is no Pope Peter, He was an apostles called by Christ to minister His gospel just as the other apostles and other men in the same way. The foundation is laid by the OT prophets and the apsotles empowered by the Word of God through the Holy Spirit working through godly men.
It is really that simple, but you will not nor cannot understand unless God moves on your behalf to remove the veil. When is the last time you cried you eyes out to God for being such a wretched soul and asked Him to make you white as snow and invite Him to take residence in you and make you into His likeness? Have you ever come to Him on His terms; on your knees, all alone and from the heart? If so, how have you changed?

 

[erikd]

Interesting sub-note:
Recently some Catholics wanted Luther pardoned and declared a Doctor of the Church, but the Church being catholic many within its ranks challenged the move (especially those of the more conservative ‘Right Wing’) and the motion was defeated.

Can you please link me to any legitimate news articles regarding this?

 

[erikd]

Are these noble examples of the Line of Peter, even if many Popes were good and just. They still had supported the Crusades, Inquisition, Burned Heretics, Burned Witches and must I mention supporting the Spanish in the greatest American geneocide of native peoples in History in the Name of God through your Church.

Pope Sergius III (904 - 911) obtained his office by murder. He fathered several illegitimate children by Marozia, who assassinated Pope Leo VI (928 - 929), and put her own teenage son (John XI) as Pope.

Pope John XII (955 - 964) is described in the Catholic encyclopedia as a coarse, immoral man. The Catholic collection of the lives of the Popes, the “Liber Pontificalis” said: “He spent his entire life in adultery.” Catholic bishop Luitprand states that “he had no respect for single girls, married woman or widows - they were sure to be defiled by him.”

Pope John XV (985 - 996) split the churches finances among his relatives and was described as “covetous of filthy lucre and corrupt in all his acts.”

Pope Benedict IX (1033 - 1045) committed murders and adulteries in broad daylight, robbed pilgrims, and was regarded as a hideous criminal. The people drove him out of Rome: The Catholic encyclopedia says, “He was a disgrace to the chair of Peter.”

Pope Innocent III (1198 - 1216) promoted the Inquisition, surpassing all his predecessors.

Pope Alexander VI (1492 - 1503) committed incest with his two sisters and daughter. On October 31, 1501 he conducted the worst ever sex orgy in the Vatican.

Pope Stephen VI (896 - 897) brought the dead body of former Pope Formosus (891 - 897) to trial, hacked off his decaying finger and had him dragged through the streets of Rome and thrown into the Tiber river.

So I would say by these examples these are hardly worthy successors to the way of Jesus. Many of the heretics seemed to be far more moral than your Church, you know the ones your Popes persecuted and burned on fires.

Libertarian:

Man has always been and will always be faulty and prone to sinful behavior. You have to remember, however, that none of these Popes taught the faithful on faith or morals as the Holy Spirit would not permit them to do so (St. Matthew 16:18). Their actions do not constitute teachings or doctrines that the faithful need to adhere to. This is kind of like saying that since the LAPD Rampart scandal (as portrayed in the movie “Training Day”) we should disregard the LAPD because of the bad judgement of several individuals, some in leadership positions. The LAPD is still needed, even in the Rampart area, as the services they provide are of vital importance to the community. Same with the Church. Jesus Christ gave us the Church, and even put a faulty individual (St. Peter) in charge. Remember that St. Peter and St. Paul both sinned against the Lord, St. Peter by denying Jesus three times (St. Matthew 26:75) and St. Paul by imprisoning Christians before his legendary road to Damascus (Acts 9). Yet, they both became the legendary Apostles that built the Church in Rome. In order to discredit the institution one has to look at the institution as a whole, not at 7 out of 266 successors of St. Peter. Look at the teachings of the Church, don’t just concentrate on the teachers.

Also, since you mentioned the Crusades, please remember what they were all about. The growing Muslim population around the world was spreading into Christian countries everywhere, and overtaking Churches and populations by force. People were dying in mass numbers and the Church, as an authority and defender of Christ, had no options but to defend the right to worship Christ. Any Christian alive today should be thankful that the leaders of the Crusades decided to take on these historic battles, for if it were not for the battles, you and I might be praising Allah and Mohammed instead of worshipping Christ.

 

[erikd]

It is really that simple, but you will not nor cannot understand unless God moves on your behalf to remove the veil. When is the last time you cried you eyes out to God for being such a wretched soul and asked Him to make you white as snow and invite Him to take residence in you and make you into His likeness? Have you ever come to Him on His terms; on your knees, all alone and from the heart? If so, how have you changed?

Can you tell me exactly what His terms are? The reason I ask is that I think the Church has, for 2000 years, defined those terms as the Sacraments. Perhaps you can read more about this and tell me what you think:

catholic.com/library/sacraments.asp

Then let me know when was the last time you met God on His terms, outside of the Catholic Church where you cannot receive any Sacraments outside of Baptism.

 

[erikd]

We don’t follow the office; you do. We follow the Person of Christ, the head of the church in heaven and EARTH.

Maybe you ought to look into following the Church that Christ built (St. Matthew 16:17-19) in order to follow Christ the way He designed for you. Remember that St. Paul used to persecute Christians by his actions, as you are persecuting Christians (Catholics were the original and first Christians) by your words. Our Lord saw that action in Acts 9:4 as an act against Himself: “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”

 

[Dokimas]

The Bible establishes Peter as the head of the true Church. The Popes are the modern-day Peters. Please explain how you can deny this truth and still say you are “Bible-believing”.

Maybe Protestants would stop saying ‘Bible-believing’ if others would stop calling themselves the only true church, started from Peter, headed by a man that is in direct line from Peter.​

None of this is well established by the Word of God (of course there is a one true church but not the RCC or CC; no ‘church’ has a corner on this). The ‘tradition’ of said church and how it interprets itself is the only real ‘evidence’ to support this belief.

 

[greggy53]

We don’t follow the office; you do. We follow the Person of Christ, the head of the church in heaven and EARTH.

Nonesense, from what I have obeserved you follwow preachers as long as they tell you what you want to hear.

 

[benedictus2]

I’ve had enough of your basic 101 folly. You either come to God on His terms or you don’t.

It’s not basic 101 folly. You know it is possible to read the Bible with your thinking cap on. Our brains are a gift from God to be used.

The truth is in the Bible; you can continue to play religion or you can get serious about your eternal destiny; that is your choice, but it is not a game to play with God.

The question is how do you know that the truth is in the Bible. Is there a way of establishing the truth of the Bible, basing it on the Bible without falling into circular reasoning?

And no I am not playing with God. I am sparring with you. Big difference there. Unless of course you think you are God

 

[benedictus2]

We don’t follow the office; you do. We follow the Person of Christ, the head of the church in heaven and EARTH.

No you are not following the perso of Christ. If you do you will believe what He said but you conveniently ignored Him or muzzle him when what He is saying (which of course happens to be in the Bible which you also claim to believe) contradicts what you have chosen to believe regardless of what the Bible ro Christ says.

Want to know who you are really following and paying heed to? Look in the mirror.

 

[benedictus2]

Are these noble examples of the Line of Peter, even if many Popes were good and just. They still had supported the Crusades, Inquisition, Burned Heretics, Burned Witches and must I mention supporting the Spanish in the greatest American geneocide of native peoples in History in the Name of God through your Church.

Pope Sergius III (904 - 911) obtained his office by murder. He fathered several illegitimate children by Marozia, who assassinated Pope Leo VI (928 - 929), and put her own teenage son (John XI) as Pope.

Pope John XII (955 - 964) is described in the Catholic encyclopedia as a coarse, immoral man. The Catholic collection of the lives of the Popes, the “Liber Pontificalis” said: “He spent his entire life in adultery.” Catholic bishop Luitprand states that “he had no respect for single girls, married woman or widows - they were sure to be defiled by him.”

Pope John XV (985 - 996) split the churches finances among his relatives and was described as “covetous of filthy lucre and corrupt in all his acts.”

Pope Benedict IX (1033 - 1045) committed murders and adulteries in broad daylight, robbed pilgrims, and was regarded as a hideous criminal. The people drove him out of Rome: The Catholic encyclopedia says, “He was a disgrace to the chair of Peter.”

Pope Innocent III (1198 - 1216) promoted the Inquisition, surpassing all his predecessors.

Pope Alexander VI (1492 - 1503) committed incest with his two sisters and daughter. On October 31, 1501 he conducted the worst ever sex orgy in the Vatican.

Pope Stephen VI (896 - 897) brought the dead body of former Pope Formosus (891 - 897) to trial, hacked off his decaying finger and had him dragged through the streets of Rome and thrown into the Tiber river.

So I would say by these examples these are hardly worthy successors to the way of Jesus. Many of the heretics seemed to be far more moral than your Church, you know the ones your Popes persecuted and burned on fires.

The Protestant Inquisition killed and tortured many more people than ever the inquisition did. The protestants murdered thousands of people in a much, much, much more shorter time than the inquisition.

And the protestants did more witch burning.

Open your eyes, widen your reading so that you may come face to face wtih the truth.

 

[greggy53]

I’ve had enough of your basic 101 folly. You either come to God on His terms or you don’t. The truth is in the Bible; you can continue to play religion or you can get serious about your eternal destiny; that is your choice, but it is not a game to play with God.

You mean come to God on his terms or more likely your terms? Yes there is truth in the scriptures for all. But there is truth outside the scriputers as well. Wouldn’t you admit that? You are getting questioned on basic stuff because you have to learn to walk before you can run.

There is truth for all in the scriptures. God wills that all would come to him for salvation(John 3) So anyone who comes to God can attain salvation.

 

[benedictus2]

We are now entering the subject headed: 'How free is free will?'

*“Everyone follows what one perceives to be the truth.” *Please explain. Please conjugate the sentence for clarity; what you have written here is open to variety of interpretation.(The words ‘everyone’ and ‘one’ - are they grammatically correct in your sentence structuring?)

What I mean here in response to free will is that what informs our action is doctrine. Orthopraxis follows orthodoxy. So if a person perceives something as good even if it is morally bad (say for example contraception), then that person will follow that perception with action (therefore practice contraception).

In the case of Luther, once the lie of SS and SF has been unleashed on the public, then those who believe this to be the correct doctrine will model their lives (by their actions) around this doctrine.

The devil is the father of lies.

Sad to say, many Catholics have too heavily relied upon others to dig the trenches of dogma: I recall attending Holy Mass wherein Sctripture about the Love of God was read. The celebrating priest instructed us on theolgy of Holy Mass. Preferring to hear a sermon on the Love of God, I voiced my disappointment to a nun, the spiritual co-ordinator of the Parish, she informed me possibly many in attendance knew little theology of what we were celebrating.

The sad thing is a lot of people think that love can exist without truth. We have so many Catholics who are so ill informed about their faith which makes them open to persuasion from the protestants. A lot of Catholics leave the Catholic church either because they do not know their faith or else have an issue with a moral teaching which they find hard to follow. I think your priest was right in at least attempting to get his parishioners better educated. Love is important. Truth is important as well.

As Pope Benedict so beautifully put it: “Only in truth does charity shine forth, only in truth can charity be authentically lived. Truth is the light that gives meaning and value to charity. That light is both the light of reason and the light of faith …”

The Catholic Church is a precious gift, many take it for granted.

I completely agree. I think those who have left and come back and those who have “crossed the Tiber” have a better appreciation for this than the norminal, cafeteria Catholics.

 

[benedictus2]

Maybe Protestants would stop saying ‘Bible-believing’ if others would stop calling themselves the only true church, started from Peter, headed by a man that is in direct line from Peter.​

None of this is well established by the Word of God (of course there is a one true church but not the RCC or CC; no ‘church’ has a corner on this). The ‘tradition’ of said church and how it interprets itself is the only real ‘evidence’ to support this belief.

First off the question I have asked a few others. How do you know that the Bible is indeed the Word of God?

Second, if you truly believe the Bible then you will know that Christ established only 1 (one, uno) Church. Can your trace your church back to Peter?

 

[greggy53]

First off the question I have asked a few others. How do you know that the Bible is indeed the Word of God?

Yes, this is what I want to hear. How do you know the books contained in the Bible belong there…How do we know they are the word of God?

 

[benedictus2]

Yes, this is what I want to hear. How do you know the books contained in the Bible belong there…How do we know they are the word of God?

Better grab a cup of coffee :coffeeread:, make yourself comfortable or pick up trick to amuse yourself:juggle:. We might be waiting for sometime.

 

[Hisalone]

First off the question I have asked a few others. How do you know that the Bible is indeed the Word of God?

Second, if you truly believe the Bible then you will know that Christ established only 1 (one, uno) Church. Can your trace your church back to Peter?

We know that The One True God reavealed Himself to Abraham to establish a people to Himself so that His people could reveal God to all nations. Moses began the writting of this revealation so future generations would know the wonders and works of God. The prophets of old contined to write the oracles of God so that Gods people would know HIm and His promises and all nations could come to know God.
God contined to breath into His oracles in the NT age. Using His people to write His oracles so that He might be revealed to all people and all nations.We know which are His by what Calvin wold say that the footprint of the breath of God is in each of them. God used His people to write the books God sed His people to select the books and God uses HIs people today to proclaim His oracles to all people all nations all races and to speak the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation for all who believe. The gospel is the power of God for salvation not the Catholic Church. I know that I am in Gods one true chruch because I have His gaurantee, His promise, His gift, His Spirit who lives in me and proclaims the Lordship of Jesus Christ. This same Spirit operated in the apostles at Pentacost so through the Spirit I can trace my congregation all the way to the apostles. Do you have this Spirit? If so what is your evidence?

 

[allan77]

yes protestants do use the term ‘bibe believing’ because thats what they believe thier faith does.
Foe example the catholic church encourages more reading and beleiving of its own doctrines and scriptures which are mostly man made traditions,i.e conforimation/ the eucharist etc, and against the word of god as told in the bible according to protestants.
This is where protestants will argue that the catholic church is therfore not bible believing, but they are.
At the end of the day we all believe in jesus and god and that mary was the mother of god, so why dont we all just accept each others beliefs and get along