Protestants: please stop using the label "Bible-believing"

[greggy53]

We know that The One True God reavealed Himself to Abraham to establish a people to Himself so that His people could reveal God to all nations. Moses began the writting of this revealation so future generations would know the wonders and works of God. The prophets of old contined to write the oracles of God so that Gods people would know HIm and His promises and all nations could come to know God.
God contined to breath into His oracles in the NT age. Using His people to write His oracles so that He might be revealed to all people and all nations.We know which are His by what Calvin wold say that the footprint of the breath of God is in each of them. God used His people to write the books God sed His people to select the books and God uses HIs people today to proclaim His oracles to all people all nations all races and to speak the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation for all who believe. The gospel is the power of God for salvation not the Catholic Church. I know that I am in Gods one true chruch because I have His gaurantee, His promise, His gift, His Spirit who lives in me and proclaims the Lordship of Jesus Christ. This same Spirit operated in the apostles at Pentacost so through the Spirit I can trace my congregation all the way to the apostles. Do you have this Spirit? If so what is your evidence?

Nice Sunday school answer. You told us how the scriptures came to us (more or less) But you haven’t answered the question. We know you believe in the Bible,but How do you** know **that the books in your Bible belong there? How do you know that they are the word of God?

 

[Dokimas]

First off the question I have asked a few others. How do you know that the Bible is indeed the Word of God?

Second, if you truly believe the Bible then you will know that Christ established only 1 (one, uno) Church. Can your trace your church back to Peter?

Thank you for asking easy questions.​

First, I can believe the Bible (66 books) is the Word of God because of the death and resurrection of Jesus. If would love us so much He’d die in our place then He (God) would want to communicate with us in a consistent and truthful way. Because God could raise Jesus from the dead, He is able to inspire people to ‘pen’ His Word.​

Second, Jesus did establish His church. He (His perfect life, His sacrificial death and His resurrection) is the only foundation of the church. He built upon it with His apostles of which Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles and James was the leader in Jerusalem. Every true believer in JESUS is part of His Body which is the church. The best I know I’m a believer so I’m part of the church of Jesus Christ and am a latter day saint (not a mormon - all believers are saints {from the Greek word meaning sanctified})

 

[Dokimas]

What I mean here in response to free will is that what informs our action is doctrine. Orthopraxis follows orthodoxy. So if a person perceives something as good even if it is morally bad (say for example contraception), then that person will follow that perception with action (therefore practice contraception).

In the case of Luther, once the lie of SS and SF has been unleashed on the public, then those who believe this to be the correct doctrine will model their lives (by their actions) around this doctrine.

The devil is the father of lies.

The sad thing is a lot of people think that love can exist without truth.​

Why is contraception wrong? Sex was not instituted initially for procreation but for oneness between Adam and Eve. God told them to be fruitful and replenish the earth. With 6 billion people, I dare say the earth is replenished. Note, God did not say to replenish a church but the earth. Then sex now is for oneness and love in a marriage.​

I’ll stick with the Bible only because too many have added teachings to the Bible that are very much against the Bible and say that ‘God told them’. For you to say the understanding of ‘Bible only’ is a lie and therefore of the devil, what would that make your understanding about the ‘Bible only’ being wrong — would your belief be of the devil?​

It’s interesting that RCC members get upset when silly people say your of the devil, then people like yourself tell us that some of our beliefs are of the devil. Is that ‘the pot calling the kettle black?’ Shouldn’t we all be careful not to point fingers at others? Remember we have 3 fingers pointing back at us. “Judge not or you’ll be judeged.”

 

[greggy53]

Thank you for asking easy questions.​

First, I can believe the Bible (66 books) is the Word of God because of the death and resurrection of Jesus. If would love us so much He’d die in our place then He (God) would want to communicate with us in a consistent and truthful way. Because God could raise Jesus from the dead, He is able to inspire people to ‘pen’ His Word.
Second, Jesus did establish His church. He (His perfect life, His sacrificial death and His resurrection) is the only foundation of the church. He built upon it with His apostles of which Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles and James was the leader in Jerusalem. Every true believer in JESUS is part of His Body which is the church. The best I know I’m a believer so I’m part of the church of Jesus Christ and am a latter day saint (not a mormon - all believers are saints {from the Greek word meaning sanctified})

How do you know there are 66 books in the Bible? The Bile doesn’t say that. Indeed the Bible does not tell you which Books belong in the Bible. You are using other human sources to base your belief on, and that is ok as long as you can trust those sources.
Truth and knowledge are found in the scriptures, but not complete truth or knowledge. That is why God gave us his Church. The Bible cannot be the Complete source of our faith.
It must be a combination of these two things. Jesus said he would build his Church; it is the Church that has his blessing and the fullness of truth in the scriptures. The Church through the Holy spirit has told us which sacred writings are scripture and which ones that are not.

 

[Dokimas]

How do you know there are 66 books in the Bible? The Bile doesn’t say that. Indeed the Bible does not tell you which Books belong in the Bible. You are using other human sources to base your belief on, and that is ok as long as you can trust those sources.
Truth and knowledge are found in the scriptures, but not complete truth or knowledge. That is why God gave us his Church. The Bible cannot be the Complete source of our faith.
It must be a combination of these two things. Jesus said he would build his Church; it is the Church that has his blessing and the fullness of truth in the scriptures. The Church through the Holy spirit has told us which sacred writings are scripture and which ones that are not.

I don’t disagree the church of Jesus Christ has played a part. I disagree if you think that church is the RCC.​

 

[greggy53]

I don’t disagree the church of Jesus Christ has played a part. I disagree if you think that church is the RCC.​

Well, that then is the point of contention between the so-called “Bible believers”, and the Church because all Christians are “Bible Believers”. Folks who use that handle don’t bother me a bit unless they exclude the Catholic Church because we view sacred scripture in a different light. That has been the main thrust I think of the Catholic point of view in this thread.
It has been demonstrated by many on this forum that the Catholic Church is the one and the same Church that our Lord established in the scriptures and historically through the writings, teachings, and it’s clergy that can be traced back to the 1st century. The evidence is there, and if anyone were to study this evidence from an unbiased perspective it would be very hard for them to ignore it.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

The Bible:
A work (or a series of works) that unifies (or divides)?
The work of God (or the works of men)?
A manifestation of spiritual reality (or spiritual realities) or a work (or works) of literature?
The Bible: What then are we going to do with it?

The Word of God - “Who then do you say that I am?”

A Bible-believer or someone in need of a fulrum from which to move or unhinge the world?
A Bible-believer or a political animal who seeks to be God?
A Bible-believer or someone terrified by the sight of their own vulnerability?

 

[steve_b]

I have my facts straight; it is you that do not want to see the truth as the Bible teaches.

Just to complete the thought, I gave you facts backed up with all the evidence. NOT my opinion. You only gave your opinion.
gotta:

There is no Pope Peter, He was an apostles called by Christ to minister His gospel just as the other apostles and other men in the same way. The foundation is laid by the OT prophets and the apsotles empowered by the Word of God through the Holy Spirit working through godly men.
It is really that simple, but you will not nor cannot understand unless God moves on your behalf to remove the veil.

This isn’t a response to what was given you. It’s just you denying.
gotta:

When is the last time you cried you eyes out to God for being such a wretched soul and asked Him to make you white as snow and invite Him to take residence in you and make you into His likeness? Have you ever come to Him on His terms; on your knees, all alone and from the heart? If so, how have you changed?

His terms provides the Church He established, with the sacraments He established. I can go to sacramental confession and know my sins are forgiven …ALL of them. I can go to the Eucharist daily and receive Him body blood soul and Divinity, and not wonder if it really happened. I can hear Jesus say, unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you. Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood I will raise on the last day.

That’s HIS way.

 

[steve_b]

Maybe Protestants would stop saying ‘Bible-believing’ if others would stop calling themselves the only true church, started from Peter, headed by a man that is in direct line from Peter.

None of this is well established by the Word of God (of course there is a one true church but not the RCC or CC; no ‘church’ has a corner on this). The ‘tradition’ of said church and how it interprets itself is the only real ‘evidence’ to support this belief

Seems you have a conflict of thoughts here.

Either way, you’ve made a claim. Prove it.

 

[steve_b]

Why is contraception wrong? Sex was not instituted initially for procreation but for oneness between Adam and Eve.

God told them to be fruitful and replenish the earth.

1. 
   *]I think it says be fruitful and multiply.
   *]how does that happen if a couple is contracepting
   *]that means sex is for procreation AND oneness.
   D:
   

   With 6 billion people, I dare say the earth is replenished.

   Says who? What’s your source
   D:
   

   Note, God did not say to replenish a church but the earth.

   Your problem is, you create strawmen.
   
   God said be fruitful and multiply.
   D:
   

   Then sex now is for oneness and love in a marriage.
   I’ll stick with the Bible only because too many have added teachings to the Bible that are very much against the Bible and say that ‘God told them’.

   Show me one verse in scripture that promotes contraception. Don’t duck this question. I would like to see your answer.

 

[Bengoshi]

Just curious, is there a place in the Bible in which it states that it is the voice of God? More interested than anything.

Yes, there are a lot. Just check the OT where it says a lot of times “Thus says the LORD.” Also, Peter in his second epistle recognized the epistles of Paul as “Scripture.”

I know of no Catholic who believes in sola ekklesia. One because it is not what the Bible, or the Church, teaches. Secondly, it makes no sense. Sola is Latin while ekklesia is Greek. You’re mixing languages.

True.

God bless you

 

[Bengoshi]

Interesting sub-note:
Recently some Catholics wanted Luther pardoned and declared a Doctor of the Church, but the Church being catholic many within its ranks challenged the move (especially those of the more conservative ‘Right Wing’) and the motion was defeated.

Hmm… This is indeed interesting!

 

[Bengoshi]

Indeed the source of Truth is the Trinity but that Source CHOSE to reveal that Truth through His Church whom in turn came up with the Bible.

You know what, this is exactly the reason why a lot of people refuse to believe in the Bible; that it is merely the writings of men! The Roman Catholic Church DID NOT “come up with the Bible,” God came up with the Bible through individual human authors.

 

[Bengoshi]

Your so-called reformers are no less quity of persecutions, tortures and murder.
One of the great leaders of your “reformation” chopped off the heads of Catholics who dared to disagree with him. You see he wanted to commit adultry, but the Pope said no so he started his own church and made everbody agree to it or they lost their heads on the chopping block…So be careful when you throw stones

The only difference is that no reformer ever claimed infallibility nor that they were “successors” to Peter and the apostles who were in fact quite Christlike.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

The only difference is that no reformer ever claimed infallibility nor that they were “successors” to Peter and the apostles who were in fact quite Christlike.

Founded and commissioned by Christ the Catholic Church is infallible; the Protestant Church repudiates all claim to infallibility.

The Pope regarding faith and morals, speaking *ex-cathedra *, is infallible. The Pope has rarely spoken ex-cathedra.

The belief in infallibility of the Catholic Church resides in the entire body of the faithful (the Mystical Body of Christ), no individual member of the Church is infallible in belief, not even the Pope. The Pope as a private theologian can err.

If the doctrine of infallibility (as outlined above) were not sanctioned there would be confusion and chaos.

 

[greggy53]

The only difference is that no reformer ever claimed infallibility nor that they were “successors” to Peter and the apostles who were in fact quite Christlike.

Of Course they couldn’t claim it. The so-called reformers broke away from the Church that Christ established so they could not claim apostolic succession. So, they decided there was no such thing, and then proceeded to dismantle the sacred institutions established by our Lord.

 

[benedictus2]

You know what, this is exactly the reason why a lot of people refuse to believe in the Bible; that it is merely the writings of men!

I did not say that the Bible is MERELY writings of men. But you cannot get away fromt the fact that MEN WROTE THE BIBLE, BUT GOD INSPIRED THESE MEN. You must remember that Jesus Christ did not do any writing. Even a simple perusal of the the Gospels tell you that it is the Gospel according to John, Luke, Matthew, Mark. The epistles wre written by Paul, Peter, John and Jude.

And this is the point that I am making. God used these members of the Church to write the Bible so the Bible came from the Church. If all that is necessary is Scripture then Jesus would have just gone about writing instead of handpicking men to be His disciples and starting a Church. But this He did not do. He started a Church.

he Roman Catholic Church DID NOT “come up with the Bible,” God came up with the Bible through individual human authors.

And the individual human authors were members of His Catholic Church. This is the part that seems to be eluding you. The Church came first. And this is the way God WILLED IT TO BE. Repeat, GOD WILLED THAT THERE SHOULD BE A CHURCH FIRST BEFORE THERE WOULD BE THE NT.

 

[benedictus2]

We know that The One True God reavealed Himself to Abraham to establish a people to Himself so that His people could reveal God to all nations. Moses began the writting of this revealation so future generations would know the wonders and works of God. The prophets of old contined to write the oracles of God so that Gods people would know HIm and His promises and all nations could come to know God.

But that does not answer the question.How do we know that the One True God did reveal Himself to Abraham? How do we know for sure that what Moses wrote was truly inspired?

God contined to breath into His oracles in the NT age. Using His people to write His oracles so that He might be revealed to all people and all nations.We know which are His by what Calvin wold say that the footprint of the breath of God is in each of them.

This is not an answer. How do we know that God continued to breathe into His oracles in the NT age. How do we that what you have written above is the truth?

God used His people to write the books God sed His people to select the books

Again, How do you know that God indeed used His peopel to select the books?

and God uses HIs people today to proclaim His oracles to all people all nations all races and to speak the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation for all who believe. The gospel is the power of God for salvation not the Catholic Church.

But How do you know that Gospels as they are written are really the work of God considering that you do not believe in the Catholic Church?

From within the Catholic Church the NT was written. The Catholic Church decided which Books will belong in the Bible. Since you do not believe in the Catholic Church. Then how can you be so sure that the books that she has written and declared as canonical be inded God’s Word.

I know that I am in Gods one true chruch because I have His gaurantee, His promise, His gift, His Spirit who lives in me

And where did you get the guarantee and how do you kow that His Spirit lives in you? Saying I know is not enough. How do you know?

and proclaims the Lordship of Jesus Christ. This same Spirit operated in the apostles at Pentacost so through the Spirit I can trace my congregation all the way to the apostles.

How can you be truly proclaiming the Lordship of Christ when you do not even believe quite a lot of what Christ says? If He is truly your Lord then you will take Him at His word. If He is truly your Lord, you will not pick and choose which of His words and commands you will believe and follow and which one you will discard and disregard.

Do you have this Spirit? If so what is your evidence?

Yes. I have been baptized and incorporatetd into His one True Church. The one He founded on Peter.

 

[benedictus2]

yes protestants do use the term ‘bibe believing’ because thats what they believe thier faith does.
Foe example the catholic church encourages more reading and beleiving of its own doctrines and scriptures which are mostly man made traditions,i.e conforimation/ the eucharist etc, and against the word of god as told in the bible according to protestants.

Nope. If you are truly Bible believing then you will know that all these doctrines are Biblical. But it is because you do not truly believe in the Bible (you believe SOME parts of it that I know) that is why you do not recognize the Biblical foundations of Catholic Docrine. The Catholic Church cannot digress from the Bible because the Bible is her book.

This is where protestants will argue that the catholic church is therfore not bible believing, but they are.

And the reason protestants argue that way is because they know zilch about the Catholic Faith. Protestants who actually STUDIED the Bible had to give up being protestants and finally embraced the overwhelming Truth fo Catholic Doctrine.

At the end of the day we all believe in jesus and god and that mary was the mother of god, so why dont we all just accept each others beliefs and get along

We can get along but we cannot accept each other’s beliefs at least I will never accept your beliefs (if you are protestant) because they are erroneous. As far as I am concerned, the father of lies is at the bottom of your interpretation of the Bible so no I will not accept those lies. You have free will and so therefore can accept it if you like, but not all doctrines and faiths are equal. This is one of the lies that devil uses to get people to stray from the truth.

 

[benedictus2]

Thank you for asking easy questions.​

First, I can believe the Bible (66 books) is the Word of God because of the death and resurrection of Jesus. If would love us so much He’d die in our place then He (God) would want to communicate with us in a consistent and truthful way. Because God could raise Jesus from the dead, He is able to inspire people to ‘pen’ His Word.

If they are easy then you would have the correct answer but your answer is no answer at all. How do you know that Jesus died and did rise again? You can’t say because the Bible said so because that would be circular reasoning.

So I ask again, How do you know that the Bible is indeed the Word fo God?​

Second, Jesus did establish His church. He (His perfect life, His sacrificial death and His resurrection) is the only foundation of the church. He built upon it with His apostles of which Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles and James was the leader in Jerusalem. [/qutoe]
Naah. For someone who claims to belive that the Bible is the Word of God you completely left out Matthew 16:18.

Who did Jesus say was going to be the foundation of His Church? Peter.

Every true believer in JESUS is part of His Body which is the church.

Which Church? Jesus founded only one Church, the Catholic Church. Protestant Churches are not Christ’s Church.

The best I know I’m a believer so I’m part of the church of Jesus Christ and am a latter day saint (not a mormon - all believers are saints {from the Greek word meaning sanctified})

If you have been baptized in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, then you are indeed part of the Catholic Church but you are a separated brother. If not, then sorry but you are greatly mistaken about your membership.