Protestants: please stop using the label "Bible-believing"

[greggy53]

Jerry Parker;5770837:

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Yes, indeed! Some Anglicans (called “Anglo-Catholics” or, with at times less pertinence, “High Church”) have presumed to call themselves Catholic.

When I grow to be as old as you, I pray to heaven that i do not devolope such pompous attitudes.

Perhaps when you grow as old as I am you will also learn tact and discretion, but I doubt it. It has been my observation that good manners are either taught to a child at a young age, or not at all.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Hey, you forgot about mormons!

Are mormons Christian?

When we proclaim ourselves the only Christians we forget about Jesus’ saying “Birds have nests, foxes have holes but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head.”

 

[greggy53]

Are mormons Christian?

When we proclaim ourselves the only Christians we forget about Jesus’ saying “Birds have nests, foxes have holes but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head.”

From what I have read about their core beliefs no. But they insist that they are.

 

[Zundrah]

I found that when I attended the Assembly of God, and other evangelical churches it was very emotional. People who like to jump and shout don’t like the reserved and regimented Catholic Mass. They equate emotionalism to closeness to God. The more you get worked up during a service the closer you are getting to the “spirit”. Which I think was being faked by most of the people because that is what was expected. If you were quiet and reserved then “your heart must not be right with God”. You must have sin in your life otherwise you would be jumping up and down and clapping like everyone else. On the other hand the Holy Mass is boring to a lot of people. I used to be bored in Mass too when I was young, but when I returned to the faith after a few years of riding the emotional Pentecostal rollercoaster I found the beauty, and majesty of the Mass much more spiritually fulfilling. The Sacraments are what is missing from the Protestant services especially the Holy Eucharist, and I think they unconsciously try to make up for that void with the jumping, clapping, and shouting.

Well Graggy, I must say that you have made my day!

Never in all my life have I ever heard a catholic put it so well!

 

[Zundrah]

Are mormons Christian?

When we proclaim ourselves the only Christians we forget about Jesus’ saying “Birds have nests, foxes have holes but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head.”

But he certainly does!

 

[greggy53]

Well Graggy, I must say that you have made my day!

Never in all my life have I ever heard a catholic put it so well!

Thank You

 

[Zundrah]

Thank You

…it’s just that you weren’t bitter about it, where as most people are. As they say its not what goes into you that ruins your soul, but what comes out. All I can see coming out of you is sweetness!

 

[greggy53]

…it’s just that you weren’t bitter about it, where as most people are. As they say its not what goes into you that ruins your soul, but what comes out. All I can see coming out of you is sweetness!

I know a few ex-Catholics who are bitter toward the Church. One friend was raised in a Catholic school as I was. We walked away with completely different perspectives. I was very bitter and angry at the Church when the sex scandal broke a few years back. I didn’t want to be Catholic anymore. In the final analysis I had no place left to go. The Church has the Sacraments, and I love the Mass. Shakespeare once wrote: "The good that men do is often interred with their bones while the evil they do lives on."After a few months of being angry I started to focus on the good priests and nuns that I have known over the years, and I realized we should never let the rotten apples spoil the bunch. I guess what I am trying to say is that I have been bitter about things, everyone has at one time or another. Holding on to that resentment and anger only damages us and God’s grace alone is our hope for peace.

 

[Zundrah]

I know a few ex-Catholics who are bitter toward the Church. One friend was raised in a Catholic school as I was. We walked away with completely different perspectives. I was very bitter and angry at the Church when the sex scandal broke a few years back. I didn’t want to be Catholic anymore. In the final analysis I had no place left to go. The Church has the Sacraments, and I love the Mass. Shakespeare once wrote: "The good that men do is often interred with their bones while the evil they do lives on."After a few months of being angry I started to focus on the good priests and nuns that I have known over the years, and I realized we should never let the rotten apples spoil the bunch. I guess what I am trying to say is that I have been bitter about things, everyone has at one time or another. Holding on to that resentment and anger only damages us and God’s grace alone is our hope for peace.

Are you talking about the child abuse that happens? A pope once said; the good of the church is greater than the bad. And besides, it is not the church that sins, but humans that sin. As you say, bad apples can make a whole fruit bowl rot, but not you! You escaped from the decomposing fruit bowl! Golry to God, and his Church.

I am very happy to hear that you have returned to the truth though.

God bless.

 

[benedictus2]

Anglicans think that tactile succession of bishops and bishoppesses is enough to guard Catholicity in the Church. Nay, there are several marks of the Church, of which Apostolic Succession is only one; Anglicanism lost its catholicity on many fronts bit by bit and certainly by now! An heretical ecclesial body cannot be Catholic. However, the Church (Catholic and Orthodox alike) do regard Anglicanism as a sort of “mixed bag” of which there is much that is good, holy, and valid, so they regard if differently than they do the sects. Anglicanism in some manifestations has marks of catholicity, alas more synthetic than organic, even if its defectiveness deprives it of what being the Catholic Church requires.

When one considers that the consensus among protestants that contraception is permissible came from the 1930 Lambeth conference, then we can definitely say that the imploding Anglican communion is anythng but Catholic.

Just look at their doctrinal trend: women priests, women bishops, gay and practicing priests and bishops.

You only really have to look at the reason for it’s existence in the first place to realize how bereft of Catholic truth it is.

All that the Anglicans have is a Catholic facade.

 

[benedictus2]

I know a few ex-Catholics who are bitter toward the Church. One friend was raised in a Catholic school as I was. We walked away with completely different perspectives. I was very bitter and angry at the Church when the sex scandal broke a few years back. I didn’t want to be Catholic anymore. In the final analysis I had no place left to go. The Church has the Sacraments, and I love the Mass. Shakespeare once wrote: "The good that men do is often interred with their bones while the evil they do lives on."After a few months of being angry I started to focus on the good priests and nuns that I have known over the years, and I realized we should never let the rotten apples spoil the bunch. I guess what I am trying to say is that I have been bitter about things, everyone has at one time or another. Holding on to that resentment and anger only damages us and God’s grace alone is our hope for peace.

And besides, we must never forget that paedophile, cruel priests are not the Catholic Church. They are simply sinning members of Her. As we all are sinning members of her. The Church has gone much worse scandal than these. If she was not divine in origin, she would have come crumbling down a long time ago. That she exists today and continues to be renewed from within speaks volumes.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

And besides, we must never forget that paedophile, cruel priests are not the Catholic Church. They are simply sinning members of Her. As we all are sinning members of her. The Church has gone much worse scandal than these. If she was not divine in origin, she would have come crumbling down a long time ago. That she exists today and continues to be renewed from within speaks volumes.

The fact the Catholic Church exists at all is a miracle in itself. The Mystical Body of Christ. Bible-believing or a question of interpretation?

 

[luckyfredsdad]

You only really have to look at the reason for it’s existence in the first place to realize how bereft of Catholic truth it is All that the Anglicans have is a Catholic facade.

A lot to say, and a lot to prove, yet, at the end of the day, you never even try do you. Repeat a nonsense oftimes enough and it will stick. The trouble is you have no proof, neither Scripture nor Tradition gives you any basic support. Does it never bother you that people can think and make judgments.When necessary you even go the against the teaching of your own Church to prove a point! What kind of catholic teaching is that?

 

[Holly3278]

I agree. Protestants should stop using the label “Bible-believing”. If they truly believed the entire Bible, they’d accept the Catholic Church as true.

 

[benedictus2]

**A lot to say, and a lot to prove, yet, at the end of the day, you never even try do you. **

Which statement do you want proof for?

**
**Repeat a nonsense oftimes enough and it will stick. ****
Which part of my post would you consider nonsense?

**

The trouble is you have no proof, neither Scripture nor Tradition gives you any basic support.

**

Which part of my post required support from Scripture and Tradition?
**Does it never bother you that people can think and make judgments.When necessary you even go the against the teaching of your own Church to prove a point! **

No it does not bother me at all. People have and will always make judgments that go against the teaching of the Catholic Church. But all that proves is people decide to be disobedient to the Church that Christ established on earth.

We are all obstinate by nature. Only when we have been transformed in Christ do we acquire a little bit of humility, enough to learn to bow to Christ’s will. The Christ who willed His Church into being.

**
**What kind of catholic teaching is that? ****

What kind of Catholic teaching is what? Please make some sense.

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Benedictus,

**We wrote: ** **Jerry: Anglicans think that tactile succession of bishops and bishoppesses is enough to guard Catholicity in the Church. Nay, there are several marks of the Church, of which Apostolic Succession is only one; Anglicanism lost its catholicity on many fronts bit by bit and certainly by now! An heretical ecclesial body cannot be Catholic. However, the Church (Catholic and Orthodox alike) do regard Anglicanism as a sort of “mixed bag” of which there is much that is good, holy, and valid, so they regard if differently than they do the sects. Anglicanism in some manifestations has marks of catholicity, alas more synthetic than organic, even if its defectiveness deprives it of what being the Catholic Church requires.

**Benedictus: When one considers that the consensus among Protestants that contraception is permissible came from the 1930 Lambeth conference, then we can definitely say that the imploding Anglican communion is anythng but Catholic. Just look at their doctrinal trend: women priests, women bishops, gay and practiing priests and bishops. You only really have to look at the reason for it’s existence in the first place to realie how bereft of Catholic truth it is. All that Anglicans have is a Catholic façade.​

Benedictus,

How marvellous to hear you out on this matter, about which your words, stern but as always judicious, ring so true! In my own contribution, from which you quoted, I was trying hard to be as generous of spirit as possible. (I corrected your American spellings to Commonweath practice to assure uniformity in this submission.) However, what you say regarding the 1930 Lambeth Conference and its momentous collapse on morality regarding birth control (contraception) is about a matter of great importance. Anglicans, Evangelicals or Anglo-Catholics, have no sense of how disgraceful contraception really is. Pope Paul VI was so right, in the face of great hostility from so many fronts, rebellious Catholics included, in inveghing against contraception so powerfully as he did. I myself did not understand the wisdom of his words, so prophetically revelvant, at the tim way back then, but I do now.

That said, there were even more essential matters, which undid Anglican catholicity, even than Anglicanism’s capitulation on contraception; but Anglicanism’s embrace of the heinous practice of contraception already in 1930 was an indicator of just how lacking in Catholic spirit Anglicanism has been. Mounting Anglican denial of the authority and unpolluted truth of Sacred Scripture and of Holy Tradition, becoming ever more explicit afterwards, sapped whatever justification there had been for Anglicanism’s claim to catholicity. With the corporate embrace by Anglican national members of the Anglican Communion, beginning in the Dominion of Canada and in the U. S. of A., of the ordination of women and of unrepentent sexually active gays, even Anglicanism’s unrelenting and stubborn stand that it was catholic on the basis of unbroken tactile succession of bishops was routed thoroughly.

There is no unbroken succession possible of bishops when some of them are female (for starters!). Whosoever’s ordination to the priesthood or consecration to the episcopacy is at the hands of women bishops (bishoppesses) has no possible claim to having been genuinely ordained or consecrated. Thus Anglicanism’s episcopal line of successive valid consecrations unravels as time passes, even judging by the purely mechanical claims on which Anglicans so long have resorted to defending the legitimacy of their Holy Orders.

Yes, indeed, the flimsy catholicity that Anglicans have is a façade, as you state. Nonetheless, there is much of great beauty, especially in liturgy and music, that Anglicanism has produced, and, however insufficient are its claims to catholicity. Anglicanism does have some spirit of catholic order and seemliness mixed in with the rankly malodourous Protestant and downright sectarian, increasingly heretical, muck through which Anglicanism waddles and in which it wallows. It is due to the good things that Anglicanism has fostered that the Second Vatican Council’s documents dealt with it so gently and benignantly as it did, which, of course, with the eccesses of apostasy into which Anglicanism has plunged during more recent decades, that Council would not have been able to do in subsequent years. By now it is ever more exclusively with “Continuing” Anglican ecclesiastical bodies (mainly with the Anglo-Catholics of the Anglican Catholic Church and similar breakaway groups in the U. S. of A. and Canada, and with the international Traditional Anglican Communion) that Popes, and Eastern Orthodoxy’s Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople (Istanbul) are dealing with Anglicanism in practical terms for prospects of reunion, even if the Vatican still interacts in hopeful “dialogue” with mainstream Anglicanism on less concrete terms.

Jerry Parker

 

[erikd]

I agree. Protestants should stop using the label “Bible-believing”. If they truly believed the entire Bible, they’d accept the Catholic Church as true.

As well as all 73 Canonical Books.