Protestants Re: The Popes Infallibility, And why does it worry you so much?

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Protestants,

Mathew 16: 18And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. 20Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ.

Matthew 18: 17And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. 18Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.

John 20: 21He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Protestants the word that you are so worried about the same word that stops many Protestants from entering the Church is the word “INFALLIBILITY”

Many Protestants say the word Infallibility is not found in the bible, and true the word Infallibility is not spelled out in the bible, BUT! The definition of Infallibility is! Where you might say, read Mathew chapter 16: and 18: and John Chapter 20:

This is also a definition of the word Infallibility and that is the Power to for give sins or retain them. Yes, you and I as Christians, must forgive our brothers and sister who have done us wrong 70 times 7 times BUT the Church Jesus Christ Established don’t, because the Church can forgive or RETAIN them and this is the Power of Infallibility To do So. AMEN

Jesus Christ gave to Peter, Power to bind and loose anything, ANYTHING! on earth and in Heaven, now Protestants, if this is not the definition of Infallibility, Regarding Faith and Morals then tell me, what is?

Protestants, do you really believe that this power to bind and loose anything on earth and in heaven or have the Authority to forgive sins or retain sins, ended with the death of St. Peter? No! It continues with the successors of St. Peter to this very day and it will continue after our death, until our Lord Jesus Christ Comes again.

Protestants, Really, Would Jesus Christ Establish His Church, without giving the Power of Infallibility or the definition of the word Infallibility to St. Peter and His Successors? No!!! The proof of this, is in the above scriptures, read it again, for yourselves, and you as well will see the definition of the word Infallibility. The Actions of Jesus Christ giving this Authority, speaks Louder than Words, don’t you agree.

The Catholic Church has the Keys, and it is another sign of Infallibility! I mean the power to bind or loose anything. Again and again, if this is not the Power of Infallibility, please tell me what is?

Protestants, The questions you should be asking yourselves and truly, truly worried about, is why don’t your church, claim it has this “Infallibility” Amen.

To be a member of the Church with Infallibility is to be in the Church that Jesus Christ founded, because He founded It on Rock not on sand.

Ufam Tobie
 
ufamtobie said:
Protestants,

Mathew 16: 18And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. 20Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ.

Matthew 18: 17And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. 18Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.

John 20: 21He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Protestants the word that you are so worried about the same word that stops many Protestants from entering the Church is the word “INFALLIBILITY”

Many Protestants say the word Infallibility is not found in the bible, and true the word Infallibility is not spelled out in the bible, BUT! The definition of Infallibility is! Where you might say, read Mathew chapter 16: and 18: and John Chapter 20:

This is also a definition of the word Infallibility and that is the Power to for give sins or retain them. Yes, you and I as Christians, must forgive our brothers and sister who have done us wrong 70 times 7 times BUT the Church Jesus Christ Established don’t, because the Church can forgive or RETAIN them and this is the Power of Infallibility To do So. AMEN

Jesus Christ gave to Peter, Power to bind and loose anything, ANYTHING! on earth and in Heaven, now Protestants, if this is not the definition of Infallibility, Regarding Faith and Morals then tell me, what is?

Protestants, do you really believe that this power to bind and loose anything on earth and in heaven or have the Authority to forgive sins or retain sins, ended with the death of St. Peter? No! It continues with the successors of St. Peter to this very day and it will continue after our death, until our Lord Jesus Christ Comes again.

Protestants, Really, Would Jesus Christ Establish His Church, without giving the Power of Infallibility or the definition of the word Infallibility to St. Peter and His Successors? No!!! The proof of this, is in the above scriptures, read it again, for yourselves, and you as well will see the definition of the word Infallibility. The Actions of Jesus Christ giving this Authority, speaks Louder than Words, don’t you agree.

The Catholic Church has the Keys, and it is another sign of Infallibility! I mean the power to bind or loose anything. Again and again, if this is not the Power of Infallibility, please tell me what is?

Protestants, The questions you should be asking yourselves and truly, truly worried about, is why don’t your church, claim it has this “Infallibility” Amen.

To be a member of the Church with Infallibility is to be in the Church that Jesus Christ founded, because He founded It on Rock not on sand.

Ufam Tobie
Click to expand...
It worries them because they misunderstand the concept. They believe, implicitly, that the Church is infallible when they believe that the Bible is inerrant, but seem to have a hard time connecting the dots between the canonization of Scripture and anything else the Church teaches. The fact is that the Church made an infallible proclamation when it canonized Scripture and the Holy Spirit remains with the Church in protecting it from error in all other matters of faith and morals.
 
ufamtobie said:
Protestants,

Mathew 16: 18And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. 20Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ.

Matthew 18: 17And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. 18Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.

John 20: 21He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Protestants the word that you are so worried about the same word that stops many Protestants from entering the Church is the word “INFALLIBILITY”

Many Protestants say the word Infallibility is not found in the bible, and true the word Infallibility is not spelled out in the bible, BUT! The definition of Infallibility is! Where you might say, read Mathew chapter 16: and 18: and John Chapter 20:

This is also a definition of the word Infallibility and that is the Power to for give sins or retain them. Yes, you and I as Christians, must forgive our brothers and sister who have done us wrong 70 times 7 times BUT the Church Jesus Christ Established don’t, because the Church can forgive or RETAIN them and this is the Power of Infallibility To do So. AMEN

Jesus Christ gave to Peter, Power to bind and loose anything, ANYTHING! on earth and in Heaven, now Protestants, if this is not the definition of Infallibility, Regarding Faith and Morals then tell me, what is?

Protestants, do you really believe that this power to bind and loose anything on earth and in heaven or have the Authority to forgive sins or retain sins, ended with the death of St. Peter? No! It continues with the successors of St. Peter to this very day and it will continue after our death, until our Lord Jesus Christ Comes again.

Protestants, Really, Would Jesus Christ Establish His Church, without giving the Power of Infallibility or the definition of the word Infallibility to St. Peter and His Successors? No!!! The proof of this, is in the above scriptures, read it again, for yourselves, and you as well will see the definition of the word Infallibility. The Actions of Jesus Christ giving this Authority, speaks Louder than Words, don’t you agree.

The Catholic Church has the Keys, and it is another sign of Infallibility! I mean the power to bind or loose anything. Again and again, if this is not the Power of Infallibility, please tell me what is?

Protestants, The questions you should be asking yourselves and truly, truly worried about, is why don’t your church, claim it has this “Infallibility” Amen.

To be a member of the Church with Infallibility is to be in the Church that Jesus Christ founded, because He founded It on Rock not on sand.

Ufam Tobie
Click to expand...
I admire your passion, and I understand you believe that Peter is infallible. My question then is can Peter be so infallible that he could not deny Christ three times? Could a Pope today claim that they have no idea who Jesus is?

Also, you’re speaking to Protestants, but don’t the Orthodox interpret this differently too? And don’t they also claim infallibility?
 
ufamtobie said:
Protestants,

Mathew 16: 18And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. 20Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ.

Matthew 18: 17And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. 18Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.

John 20: 21He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Protestants the word that you are so worried about the same word that stops many Protestants from entering the Church is the word “INFALLIBILITY”

Many Protestants say the word Infallibility is not found in the bible, and true the word Infallibility is not spelled out in the bible, BUT! The definition of Infallibility is! Where you might say, read Mathew chapter 16: and 18: and John Chapter 20:

This is also a definition of the word Infallibility and that is the Power to for give sins or retain them. Yes, you and I as Christians, must forgive our brothers and sister who have done us wrong 70 times 7 times BUT the Church Jesus Christ Established don’t, because the Church can forgive or RETAIN them and this is the Power of Infallibility To do So. AMEN

Jesus Christ gave to Peter, Power to bind and loose anything, ANYTHING! on earth and in Heaven, now Protestants, if this is not the definition of Infallibility, Regarding Faith and Morals then tell me, what is?

Protestants, do you really believe that this power to bind and loose anything on earth and in heaven or have the Authority to forgive sins or retain sins, ended with the death of St. Peter? No! It continues with the successors of St. Peter to this very day and it will continue after our death, until our Lord Jesus Christ Comes again.

Protestants, Really, Would Jesus Christ Establish His Church, without giving the Power of Infallibility or the definition of the word Infallibility to St. Peter and His Successors? No!!! The proof of this, is in the above scriptures, read it again, for yourselves, and you as well will see the definition of the word Infallibility. The Actions of Jesus Christ giving this Authority, speaks Louder than Words, don’t you agree.

The Catholic Church has the Keys, and it is another sign of Infallibility! I mean the power to bind or loose anything. Again and again, if this is not the Power of Infallibility, please tell me what is?

Protestants, The questions you should be asking yourselves and truly, truly worried about, is why don’t your church, claim it has this “Infallibility” Amen.

To be a member of the Church with Infallibility is to be in the Church that Jesus Christ founded, because He founded It on Rock not on sand.

Ufam Tobie
Click to expand...
What makes you think Protestants are worried about papal “infallibility?”
 
SteveVH said:
It worries them because they misunderstand the concept. They believe, implicitly, that the Church is infallible when they believe that the Bible is inerrant, but seem to have a hard time connecting the dots between the canonization of Scripture and anything else the Church teaches. The fact is that the Church made an infallible proclamation when it canonized Scripture and the Holy Spirit remains with the Church in protecting it from error in all other matters of faith and morals.
Click to expand...
How do you know the church made an “infallible” proclamation regarding the canon?
 
The funny thing about infallibility is that the RCC is so sure it is real, yet theologians cannot even determine which proclamations by the Pope are infallible or not. Even the Vatican has not come out with a list of infallible statements. To this day we argue whether Vatican II is infallible or not.

Where’s infallibility in all of this? 🤷
 
Henree said:
How do you know the church made an “infallible” proclamation regarding the canon?
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Do you believe that the Bible is the inerrant, inspired word of God? How do you know this?
You had better hope that the Church made an infallible proclamation concerning Sacred Scripture or you cannot be sure if any certain sacred text found in the Bible is, truly, the inspired word of God. You only have the Catholic Church’s word for it, nothing else.
 
SteveVH said:
Do you believe that the Bible is the inerrant, inspired word of God?
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Of course.
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SteveVH:
How do you know this?
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I trust God.
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SteveVH:
You had better hope that the Church made an infallible proclamation concerning Sacred Scripture or you cannot be sure if any certain sacred text found in the Bible is, truly, the inspired word of God.
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My hope is in God.
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SteveVH:
You only have the Catholic Church’s word for it, nothing else.
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Has God no part in the canon?

Whose part is greater, the church’s, or God’s?
 
Henree said:
Of course.

I trust God.

My hope is in God.

Has God no part in the canon?

Whose part is greater, the church’s, or God’s?
Click to expand...
Uh oh, you blew it man. Be prepared for many answers to this one specifically haha.

Bye thread!
 
Henree said:
Of course.

I trust God.

My hope is in God.

Has God no part in the canon?

Whose part is greater, the church’s, or God’s?
Click to expand...
This is a major false dichotomy.

Of course God has a part in the canon. Precisely how He exercised that part was by inspiring the Church to declare the canon in the first place.
 
Henree said:
What is?
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The idea that there is a “greater part” to play on God’s part. This essentially rests on the idea that the Church is a human construct (Protestant) versus the idea that the Church is a divine construct (Catholic) that cannot be wrong in matters of faith and morals.
 
YoungTradCath said:
The idea that there is a “greater part” to play on God’s part. This essentially rests on the idea that the Church is a human construct (Protestant) versus the idea that the Church is a divine construct (Catholic) that cannot be wrong in matters of faith and morals.
Click to expand...
Which had the greater part in the canon of Scripture, God, or the Church?

It’s a simple question. If you think there is another option, offer it.
 
Henree said:
Which had the greater part in the canon of Scripture, God, or the Church?

It’s a simple question. If you think there is another option, offer it.
Click to expand...
Another option is that there is no contradiction between the authority of the Church and the authority of God, because the authority of the Church is itself God’s authority.

Church’s legitimate authority=God’s authority.

The Bible did not fall out of the sky one day. It was inspired part by part, then the Catholic Church compiled it and promulgated it as the Biblical canon. The Bible is what it is because the Church says so=The Bible is what it is because God says so.
 
Henree said:
Of course.

I trust God.

My hope is in God.

Has God no part in the canon?

Whose part is greater, the church’s, or God’s?
Click to expand...
Okay, then how did God tell YOU which are inspired or not. How do you know that other writings from the time are not inspired?
 
ConstantineTG said:
The funny thing about infallibility is that the RCC is so sure it is real, yet theologians cannot even determine which proclamations by the Pope are infallible or not. Even the Vatican has not come out with a list of infallible statements. To this day we argue whether Vatican II is infallible or not.

Where’s infallibility in all of this? 🤷
Click to expand...
So, you are saying that the individual writers of Holy Scripture were not preserved from error in Truth when writing Scripture?
 
SteveVH said:
Who are these theologians?
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I posted this on another thread today:

Regarding the dogma of infallibility, there are renowned Catholic scholars who question and criticize this development Theologians such as Hans Kung and Bernard Cooke have written extensively on the subject. Here’s a recent article in the National Catholic Reporter citing concerns by Cooke.

"Cooke wrote that, “without stating it explicitly,” these theologians “are suggesting that the key view of Vatican II regarding the collegiality of pope and bishops has yet to be absorbed in official thinking or honored in papal behavior.”

According to Cooke, this detachment in the papal office makes some theologians question the pope’s teaching authority in matters of ethical judgment. Questioning his ethical authority led Cooke to evaluate the uneasiness surrounding papal infallibility.

“Basic questions have arisen about applying the term ‘infallible’ to anything or anyone except God,” Cooke wrote.

Beyond asking whether the pope is infallible, Cooke asked Catholic thinkers to “ask how much of the papal claims to authority and power are intrinsic to the nature of the church.”
Cooke admitted that the questions he was posing are precarious to discuss but he believed the evolving Christian discipleship demands such questions be examined."
ncronline.org/news/people/sac…-50-years-work
 
YoungTradCath said:
Another option is that there is no contradiction between the authority of the Church and the authority of God, because the authority of the Church is itself God’s authority.

Church’s legitimate authority=God’s authority.

The Bible did not fall out of the sky one day. It was inspired part by part, then the Catholic Church compiled it and promulgated it as the Biblical canon. The Bible is what it is because the Church says so=The Bible is what it is because God says so.
Click to expand...
It think the one who inspired the canon is greater than the one who compiled it. I also think the authority of the one who inspired the canon is greater than the authority of the one who compiled it, and so on.
 
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