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YoungTradCath
Guest
Oh dear God please do not talk about Hans Kung’s “theological” acumen here. He was discredited and forbidden to teach theology in 1979.
Also, NCReporter is trash.
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Protestants Re: The Popes Infallibility, And why does it worry you so much?
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Also, NCReporter is trash.
Y
YoungTradCath
Guest
But again, the authority of the Church is God’s authority.It think the one who inspired the canon is greater than the one who compiled it. I also think the authority of the one who inspired the canon is greater than the authority of the one who compiled it, and so on.
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Henree
Guest
You’re not answering the questions posed in the post to which you are responding. Please answer the questions.Okay, then how did God tell YOU which are inspired or not. How do you know that other writings from the time are not inspired?
C
ConstantineTG
Guest
So is infallibility only upon Peter and his successors, or on all Apostles?So, you are saying that the individual writers of Holy Scripture were not preserved from error in Truth when writing Scripture?
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Henree
Guest
Then you must believe God and the church are equals. Interesting.But again, the authority of the Church is God’s authority.
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pablope
Guest
Why don’t you start listing them…and see how far you can go with 2000 yrs worth of papal actions.Meh, some people I read somewhere. So let us assume that they are pretty bad at what they do, is the list of infallible statements so hard to find?
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Henree
Guest
Where is the list of “infallible” statements kept?Why don’t you start listing them…and see how far you can go with 2000 yrs worth of papal actions.
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pablope
Guest
Of course.
I trust God.
My hope is in God.
Has God no part in the canon?
Whose part is greater, the church’s, or God’s?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveVH
Do you believe that the Bible is the inerrant, inspired word of God?
How did you acquire this knowledge? Did someone tell you? Why do you believe that someone?Of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveVH
How do you know this?
Why do you trust God? Who did God use to inform you of this?I trust God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveVH
You had better hope that the Church made an infallible proclamation concerning Sacred Scripture or you cannot be sure if any certain sacred text found in the Bible is, truly, the inspired word of God.
Who did God use to give you the Scripture? Did the Bible fall out of the sky? The list of books…did it fall out of the sky?My hope is in God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveVH
You only have the Catholic Church’s word for it, nothing else.
Has God no part in the canon?
What do you mean whose part is greater?Whose part is greater, the church’s, or God’s?
Again…who did God use to give you an inerrant Scripture?
S
SteveVH
Guest
Great!Of course.
When did God give you a list of the Books that would make up the Bible?I trust God.
So is mine. And God started a Church and sent the Holy Spirit to guide it into all truth (John 16:13). He also gave that Church the authority to bind in heaven what it binds on earth and to loose in heaven what it loosed on earth (Mt 16:19). Guided by the Holy Spirit, just as the authors of Sacred Scripture were guided by the Holy Spirit, the Church has the authority to determine what is inspired and what is not inspired. Out of over 400 texts, the Church chose 27 of them to be included in the New Testament.My hope is in God.
Absolutely. We completely depend upon the Holy Spirit to protect us from error in matters of faith and morals. We completely depend upon the Holy Spirit in guiding the writing of the authors of Scripture. We completely depend upon the Holy Spirit in guiding the Church in determining the canon of Sacred Scripture.Has God no part in the canon?
God and his Church are inseparable. Remember, Christ said he will build his Church. This is not a man made institution. It is a divine institution made up of sinners. But Christ is the Head. Since Jesus started his Church, having a relationship with Christ means having a relationship with his Church. You cannot separate them. The Holy Spirit protects fallible men in his Church from error. It is God who is infallible and who imparts this most necessary gift to his Church.Whose part is greater, the church’s, or God’s?
God bless.
U
ufamtobie
Guest
Dronald,I admire your passion, and I understand you believe that Peter is infallible. My question then is can Peter be so infallible that he could not deny Christ three times? Could a Pope today claim that they have no idea who Jesus is?
Also, you’re speaking to Protestants, but don’t the Orthodox interpret this differently too? And don’t they also claim infallibility?
The infallibility is in regards to Faith and Morals the Teachings of the Catholic Church.
Jesus Christ knew Peters weakness all Pope are human, but when it comes to the Teaching of the Catholic Church there is where the Popes have the infallibility because they are Guided by the Holy Spirit. Amen
Dronald, The questions you should be asking yourself and truly, truly worried about, is why don’t your church, claim it has this “Infallibility” Amen.
Ufam Tobie
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pablope
Guest
It is in the common teaching, the common life…and common worship of the Church…in Sacred Tradition.Where is the list of “infallible” statements kept?
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pablope
Guest
What do you understand by infallibility and impeccability? Do you know the distinction between the two?I admire your passion, and I understand you believe that Peter is infallible. My question then is can Peter be so infallible that he could not deny Christ three times? Could a Pope today claim that they have no idea who Jesus is?
Also, you’re speaking to Protestants, but don’t the Orthodox interpret this differently too? And don’t they also claim infallibility?
You believe every word your pastor speaks to you every Sunday, correct? Yet…is he sinless? So why do you believe him?
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Henree
Guest
He didn’t give it to me directly. I’ve inherited it from the church. Of course, it’s a different canon then your’s.When did God give you a list of the Books that would make up the Bible?
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pablope
Guest
he Decree of Pope St. Damasus I, Council of Rome. 382 A.D…How do you know the church made an “infallible” proclamation regarding the canon?
ST. DAMASUS 1, POPE, THE DECREE OF DAMASUS:
It is likewise decreed: Now, indeed, we must treat of the divine Scriptures: what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she must shun.
The list of the Old Testament begins: Genesis, one book; Exodus, one book: Leviticus, one book; Numbers, one book; Deuteronomy, one book; Jesus Nave, one book; of Judges, one book; Ruth, one book; of Kings, four books; Paralipomenon, two books; One Hundred and Fifty Psalms, one book; of Solomon, three books: Proverbs, one book; Ecclesiastes, one book; Canticle of Canticles, one book; likewise, Wisdom, one book; Ecclesiasticus (Sirach), one book; Likewise, the list of the Prophets: Isaiah, one book; Jeremias, one book; along with Cinoth, that is, his Lamentations; Ezechiel, one book; Daniel, one book; Osee, one book; Amos, one book; Micheas, one book; Joel, one book; Abdias, one book; Jonas, one book; Nahum, one book; Habacuc, one book; Sophonias, one book; Aggeus, one book; Zacharias, one book; Malachias, one book. Likewise, the list of histories: Job, one book; Tobias, one book; Esdras, two books; Esther, one book; Judith, one book; of Maccabees, two books.
Likewise, the list of the Scriptures of the New and Eternal Testament, which the holy and Catholic Church receives: of the Gospels, one book according to Matthew, one book according to Mark, one book according to Luke, one book according to John. The Epistles of the Apostle Paul, fourteen in number: one to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, one to the Ephesians, two to the Thessalonians, one to the Galatians, one to the Philippians, one to the Colossians, two to Timothy, one to Titus one to Philemon, one to the Hebrews. Likewise, one book of the Apocalypse of John. And the Acts of the Apostles, one book. Likewise, the canonical Epistles, seven in number: of the Apostle Peter, two Epistles; of the Apostle James, one Epistle; of the Apostle John, one Epistle; of the other John, a Presbyter, two Epistles; of the Apostle Jude the Zealot, one Epistle. Thus concludes the canon of the New Testament.
Likewise it is decreed: After the announcement of all of these prophetic and evangelic or as well as apostolic writings which we have listed above as Scriptures, on which, by the grace of God, the Catholic Church is founded, we have considered that it ought to be announced that although all the Catholic Churches spread abroad through the world comprise but one bridal chamber of Christ, nevertheless, the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of other Churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: “You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you shall have bound on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall have loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
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Henree
Guest
Sounds like you don’t really know.It is in the common teaching, the common life…and common worship of the Church…in Sacred Tradition.
But if you do know, will you produce the list, please?
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pablope
Guest
Which church? Which one is the correct canon then? How come protestants have a different canon?He didn’t give it to me directly. I’ve inherited it from the church. Of course, it’s a different canon then your’s.
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Henree
Guest
"Henree:
How do you know the church made an “infallible” proclamation regarding the canon?
That doesn’t answer my question.How do you know the church made an “infallible” proclamation regarding the canon?
he Decree of Pope St. Damasus I, Council of Rome. 382 A.D…
ST. DAMASUS 1, POPE, THE DECREE OF DAMASUS:
It is likewise decreed: Now, indeed, we must treat of the divine Scriptures: what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she must shun.
The list of the Old Testament begins: Genesis, one book; Exodus, one book: Leviticus, one book; Numbers, one book; Deuteronomy, one book; Jesus Nave, one book; of Judges, one book; Ruth, one book; of Kings, four books; Paralipomenon, two books; One Hundred and Fifty Psalms, one book; of Solomon, three books: Proverbs, one book; Ecclesiastes, one book; Canticle of Canticles, one book; likewise, Wisdom, one book; Ecclesiasticus (Sirach), one book; Likewise, the list of the Prophets: Isaiah, one book; Jeremias, one book; along with Cinoth, that is, his Lamentations; Ezechiel, one book; Daniel, one book; Osee, one book; Amos, one book; Micheas, one book; Joel, one book; Abdias, one book; Jonas, one book; Nahum, one book; Habacuc, one book; Sophonias, one book; Aggeus, one book; Zacharias, one book; Malachias, one book. Likewise, the list of histories: Job, one book; Tobias, one book; Esdras, two books; Esther, one book; Judith, one book; of Maccabees, two books.
Likewise, the list of the Scriptures of the New and Eternal Testament, which the holy and Catholic Church receives: of the Gospels, one book according to Matthew, one book according to Mark, one book according to Luke, one book according to John. The Epistles of the Apostle Paul, fourteen in number: one to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, one to the Ephesians, two to the Thessalonians, one to the Galatians, one to the Philippians, one to the Colossians, two to Timothy, one to Titus one to Philemon, one to the Hebrews. Likewise, one book of the Apocalypse of John. And the Acts of the Apostles, one book. Likewise, the canonical Epistles, seven in number: of the Apostle Peter, two Epistles; of the Apostle James, one Epistle; of the Apostle John, one Epistle; of the other John, a Presbyter, two Epistles; of the Apostle Jude the Zealot, one Epistle. Thus concludes the canon of the New Testament.
Likewise it is decreed: After the announcement of all of these prophetic and evangelic or as well as apostolic writings which we have listed above as Scriptures, on which, by the grace of God, the Catholic Church is founded, we have considered that it ought to be announced that although all the Catholic Churches spread abroad through the world comprise but one bridal chamber of Christ, nevertheless, the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of other Churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: “You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you shall have bound on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall have loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
How do you know the church made an “infallible” proclamation regarding the canon?
H
Henree
Guest
What do you think my answer is to that question?Which church? Which one is the correct canon then? How come protestants have a different canon?
Why bother to ask it then?
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pablope
Guest
If you want a list…go back 2000 yrs and search for every papal proclamation…Good luck on your endeavor.Sounds like you don’t really know.
But if you do know, will you produce the list, please?
But those decrees and proclamations are alive in the Church…in its common teaching, its common worship…its common life…dating back 2000 yrs.
It is lived.
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pablope
Guest
You are the one with a different canon than was proclaimed in 382. So which one do you think is correct?What do you think my answer is to that question?
Why bother to ask it then?
Why do you follow a protestant canon?
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