Protestants Rejecting Catholicism

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who is Steve b?
is it an inside joke or a pun ?
Some poster who adds a lot of links when he posts. And just writes a lot. No negative connotations intended from my side to you. I really just had a moment of laughter because of Peter J’s post. Maybe bacsue I have come across Steve b. Really nothing harmful intended. 🙂
 
the point is a rebuttal to your claim

in the context of your post; “roughly” means a rough estimate:
Whole means the complete collection: 100%

IOW it seems that you are saying that the rough estimate of the Bible heard in Mass is around 100%

I am not aware of anyone else feeling that 27.5% is roughly the whole thing.
It seems that 27.5.% is roughly 30 % or maybe 25%: but not roughly the whole thing.

you feel 27.5% is roughly the whole thing.
I do not
🤷: so I’ll drop it.

It is so hard to have a dialog when common words and phrases do not mean the same thing between posters
So you quantify the whole Bible by the percentage of the verses . Ok then I get it. So on that basis you proved my statement was wrong when I said roughly.

I did not see it that way. Using percentage of the verses covered can be misleading because you are depending on which verses you picked and chose.

I would say every book of the Bible has its thrust in the message it wants to convey. If these prominent characteristics of the Book is chosen for the readings and tied together with the other books in the OT (as compared to the NT) and the psalm as prayers then the Bible can be pretty much be summarised.

Ok I get your point but I still disagree with you because that’s not my methodology of how I do it.

I think focusing too much on the verses and not the context of the whole Bible can be in danger of error in understanding them. I often heard that some Protestants used verses of the Bible to derive their doctrine but ignore some other verses that disagree with it.

btw, how long does your pastor complete the whole Bible that he teaches you in your services?

Do you all study the same passages or it is up to the selection of the pastor at any given time?

I hope you at least listen to what I said without making quick conclusion so that I don’t have to deny it.🙂
 
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What we may see as beautiful interpretation and devotion, they may see as an abomination. But really, we all can agree with St Jerome, that ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ.

We also should remember what Jesus warned the Pharisees:

John 5

39You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me;40yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

We place His Eucharist as equally venerable to His Word.
🙂
 
I found it quite funny that Peter J referred to the poster as the Non-Catholic Steve B.
Well thank you.🙂
who is Steve b?
is it an inside joke or a pun ?
Well, it wasn’t much of a joke tbh. Maybe just a quip even. I’m not sure whether to be flattered or puzzled that we’re still talking about it now. 😊 :pshaw: :thankyou: :hmmm: :cool:

I used to converse with steve b years ago. (Not just him of course. Many other Catholic posters on CAF too, but that’s beside the point.) The post I quoted seemed to use the same style as steve b – the colors and other highlighting. That’s why I said it.
 
I agree with this
“So it is not like Catholics are totally deprived of understanding the Bible. But I agreed with the author in the other post that the Catholic Church should have a better Bible program.”

I disagree with this
“At least for Catholics, they hear the Bible preached and taught to them in the mass, which roughly they get to hear and being taught the whole book of Bible in three year-cycle from the Sunday mass and two-year cycle in daily mass.”

Often repeated, but ever checked?
catholic-resources.org/Lectionary/Statistics.htm

If you went every day

5689 NT verses used used / 7957 NT total verses = 71.5%
3378 OT verses used / 25044 OT total verses = 13:5 %

combined = 27.5% Verses used in the three year cycle

**if you only went on Sundays & Major Feasts **
OT 3.7%
NT 40.8 %
combined = 12.7 %

Do you agree with me?
I haven’t independently investigated those numbers but I trust that they are correct.

The thing is, it seems like we’re no longer even talking about Cardinal Arinze.
 
btw, how long does your pastor complete the whole Bible that he teaches you in your services?
This is a very good question that needs addressing especially in light of the other posters seeming to put on the need of every book and verse in a certain time frame as being so important to the Christian faith.

Peace!!!
 
This is a very good question that needs addressing especially in light of the other posters seeming to put on the need of every book and verse in a certain time frame as being so important to the Christian faith.

Peace!!!
Well, to be fair, I think alwayswill was responding to the claim that the Catholic Church reads the whole Bible in a 3 yr period. I’ve also heard this and was under the assumption it was true. The fact is, it is a portion of the Bible. Though I think it is realistically the heart of the Bible, starting with the majority, if not literally all of the Gospels, then the Catholic Epistles, and threst of the NT, then the major books of the Old Testament, and then maybe the less “prominant” writings of the OT. That what I’m guessing from just the amount read in Church. If one Gospel is read every week, and one other NT passage and also one reading from the OT, the amount of text in the Gospels is less than the rest of the NT, and way less than the whole OT.
 
This is a very good question that needs addressing especially in light of the other posters seeming to put on the need of every book and verse in a certain time frame as being so important to the Christian faith.

Peace!!!
Yes, I would like to know how they do that.
 
I grew up as a Presbyterian Protestant, lived as very devout Protestant for nearly 12 years, and still attend Protestant church services occasionally so I guess maybe I can speak on behalf of the Protestants (sort of but not really). Anyways, Protestants are very sensitive towards catholic doctrines such as the doctrine of purgatory, prayers to saints (particularly Mary), venerating saints (again, especially Mary), and all other doctrines that has to do with Mary (Marian apparitions, scapular, miraculous medals, and etc.) which makes things seems like Catholics are putting more emphasis on Mary rather than Jesus and even God himself. Protestants are fully aware about the fact that Catholics are resisting by saying that “it’s not true” but the reality speaks for itself. Most Protestants are also against making statues because apparently, it’s against the 10 commandments. Protestants are also against the Sacrament of Reconciliation (Penance) because Protestants believe that it’s nowhere in the Bible and also they believe that repentance is between us and God, not the priest in between. But on the bright side, I think Protestants are actually okay with the Pope (Bishop of Rome) and the doctrine of Transubstantiation. I personally have nothing against Catholics and I really do respect the Catholic Church and attend masses quite often (of course without receiving the Eucharist). Hope this helped you! 🙂
 
So you quantify the whole Bible by the percentage of the verses . Ok then I get it. So on that basis you proved my statement was wrong when I said roughly.

I did not see it that way. Using percentage of the verses covered can be misleading because you are depending on which verses you picked and chose.

I would say every book of the Bible has its thrust in the message it wants to convey. If these prominent characteristics of the Book is chosen for the readings and tied together with the other books in the OT (as compared to the NT) and the psalm as prayers then the Bible can be pretty much be summarised.

Ok I get your point but I still disagree with you because that’s not my methodology of how I do it.

I think focusing too much on the verses and not the context of the whole Bible can be in danger of error in understanding them. I often heard that some Protestants used verses of the Bible to derive their doctrine but ignore some other verses that disagree with it.

btw, how long does your pastor complete the whole Bible that he teaches you in your services?

Do you all study the same passages or it is up to the selection of the pastor at any given time?

I hope you at least listen to what I said without making quick conclusion so that I don’t have to deny it.🙂
I think that because for many Protestants the Bible is all they have, and that is why they are so focused on things like verse knowledge, “I have read the whole Bible”, “where does it say that in the Bible”, “It does not say that in the Bible”, or like this part of the conversation when it was said that the CC roughly reads the Bible in a three year cycle, it’s like OMG not you Catholics, now I have to discredit that claim.

So while with laser beam focus that some Protestants have for what is in the Bible, and the Bible only, they miss out on the richness of the Church Christ established and all the wonderful and beautiful (T)raditions and (t)raditions that is available. As a convert I know how focused some can get on the “I have read the whole Bible”, “where does it say that in the Bible”, or “It does not say that in the Bible” way of thinking. been there, done that.
 
I grew up as a Presbyterian Protestant, lived as very devout Protestant for nearly 12 years, and still attend Protestant church services occasionally so I guess maybe I can speak on behalf of the Protestants (sort of but not really). Anyways, Protestants are very sensitive towards catholic doctrines such as the doctrine of purgatory, prayers to saints (particularly Mary), venerating saints (again, especially Mary), and all other doctrines that has to do with Mary (Marian apparitions, scapular, miraculous medals, and etc.) which makes things seems like Catholics are putting more emphasis on Mary rather than Jesus and even God himself. Protestants are fully aware about the fact that Catholics are resisting by saying that “it’s not true” but the reality speaks for itself. Most Protestants are also against making statues because apparently, it’s against the 10 commandments. Protestants are also against the Sacrament of Reconciliation (Penance) because Protestants believe that it’s nowhere in the Bible and also they believe that repentance is between us and God, not the priest in between. But on the bright side, I think Protestants are actually okay with the Pope (Bishop of Rome) and the doctrine of Transubstantiation. I personally have nothing against Catholics and I really do respect the Catholic Church and attend masses quite often (of course without receiving the Eucharist). Hope this helped you! 🙂
From my experience in the RCIA process, these issues are a symptom rather than the hard objection.
The objection always boils down to misunderstanding and rejecting eccelsial authority. Or stated another way, clinging to individualism.
In most cases, you can help a convert see that the Church’s positions make sense, but they do not let go until they are ready to loosen their grip on themselves.
 
I think that because for many Protestants the Bible is all they have, and that is why they are so focused on things like verse knowledge, “I have read the whole Bible”, “where does it say that in the Bible”, “It does not say that in the Bible”, or like this part of the conversation when it was said that the CC roughly reads the Bible in a three year cycle, it’s like OMG not you Catholics, now I have to discredit that claim.

So while with laser beam focus that some Protestants have for what is in the Bible, and the Bible only, they miss out on the richness of the Church Christ established and all the wonderful and beautiful (T)raditions and (t)raditions that is available. As a convert I know how focused some can get on the “I have read the whole Bible”, “where does it say that in the Bible”, or “It does not say that in the Bible” way of thinking. been there, done that.
Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut. 👍🙂
Some of their response is unbelievably shallow to a point of being childish but hearing how the issue is to them, it is perhaps understandable their reaction is as such.
 
I grew up as a Presbyterian Protestant, lived as very devout Protestant for nearly 12 years, and still attend Protestant church services occasionally so I guess maybe I can speak on behalf of the Protestants (sort of but not really). Anyways, Protestants are very sensitive towards catholic doctrines such as the doctrine of purgatory, prayers to saints (particularly Mary), venerating saints (again, especially Mary), and all other doctrines that has to do with Mary (Marian apparitions, scapular, miraculous medals, and etc.) which makes things seems like Catholics are putting more emphasis on Mary rather than Jesus and even God himself. Protestants are fully aware about the fact that Catholics are resisting by saying that “it’s not true” but the reality speaks for itself. Most Protestants are also against making statues because apparently, it’s against the 10 commandments. Protestants are also against the Sacrament of Reconciliation (Penance) because Protestants believe that it’s nowhere in the Bible and also they believe that repentance is between us and God, not the priest in between. But on the bright side, I think Protestants are actually okay with the Pope (Bishop of Rome) and the doctrine of Transubstantiation. I personally have nothing against Catholics and I really do respect the Catholic Church and attend masses quite often (of course without receiving the Eucharist). Hope this helped you! 🙂
Good post, but I think a bit of clarification is in order. For one thing, when you speak of Marian apparitions as “doctrine” , you should note that no Catholic is required to believe that apparitions at Fatima, Lourdes, etc really happened. (Although a Catholic who doesn’t believe in them might choose to keep quiet, if he or she has friends who are very big on them.) They aren’t doctrines.
 
This is a question for our Protestant friends, especially those who converted away from Catholicism.

What would you describe as being the most important intellectual argument that lead to your either rejecting or not embracing Catholicism?

I’m not attempting to debate you and show you that you’re wrong, I’m just interested in your perspective.
Hi L,

What I have heard from some, “malpractice” at the most fundamental level of just what is the gospel, to be saved, born again…Jesus did say the hookers and drunkards enter first (and followed Him) before the “religious” enter…like Nicodemus…a religious leader… who wasn’t even at first base, unregenerated. Very basic stuff. Not horseshoes…close but no cigar…“My people perish for lack of knowledge” and that beginning with the “gospel” knowledge. Many think that because they were infant baptized, done the religious "stuff’’ they are/were regenerated . Now that is a burden , to be religious, while not born of the spirit. To try to be good, whilst still only being flesh, not perceiving grace and free gifts.

Blessings

PS- all churches have this “challenge” to some extent…most would also agree that the CC is the most religious, having then a bigger challenge.
 
PS- all churches have this “challenge” to some extent…most would also agree that the CC is the most religious, having then a bigger challenge.
Yes. Like Satan demanded to sift Peter like wheat, because Jesus kept him the closest.
 
Hi L,

What I have heard from some, “malpractice” at the most fundamental level of just what is the gospel, to be saved, born again…Jesus did say the hookers and drunkards enter first (and followed Him) before the “religious” enter…like Nicodemus…a religious leader… who wasn’t even at first base, unregenerated. Very basic stuff. Not horseshoes…close but no cigar…“My people perish for lack of knowledge” and that beginning with the “gospel” knowledge. Many think that because they were infant baptized, done the religious "stuff’’ they are/were regenerated . Now that is a burden , to be religious, while not born of the spirit. To try to be good, whilst still only being flesh, not perceiving grace and free gifts.

Blessings

PS- all churches have this “challenge” to some extent…most would also agree that the CC is the most religious, having then a bigger challenge.
🤷

The passage “tax collectors and prostitutes entering” is in the context of doing God’s will. Entering the vineyard to do the will of God is paramount. One son gives lip service to the will of God without acting, the other son has no lip service but acts in God’s will. It is not a discouragement to religious practice, but rather to empty lip service in the name of religion. You see an either/or comparison here that Christ does not really make.

If religion is an obstacle to doing the will of God, why in the world did Christ come to us in the first place? It’s somewhat of a romantic myth that Christ founded a vague Gnostic sect with no religious practice or foundation, and no instituted body. Quite the contrary. He was incarnate. He was a Jew. He studied, prayed, was even baptized.

If Christ founded a Church, how can the Church he founded pose a “bigger challenge” for it’s practitioners?
 
🤷

The passage “tax collectors and prostitutes entering” is in the context of doing God’s will. Entering the vineyard to do the will of God is paramount. One son gives lip service to the will of God without acting, the other son has no lip service but acts in God’s will. It is not a discouragement to religious practice, but rather to empty lip service in the name of religion. You see an either/or comparison here that Christ does not really make.

If religion is an obstacle to doing the will of God, why in the world did Christ come to us in the first place? It’s somewhat of a romantic myth that Christ founded a vague Gnostic sect with no religious practice or foundation, and no instituted body. Quite the contrary. He was incarnate. He was a Jew. He studied, prayed, was even baptized.

If Christ founded a Church, how can the Church he founded pose a “bigger challenge” for it’s practitioners?
Hi g,

This is God’s will, “Believe on whom He sent”. That was the context, believe and “know” is foundational before any walking the talk begins. Before, not after…Nicodemus was doing some of God’s will-circumcised , barmitzvahed, learned in the Word, teaching others(rabbi), celebrating all the festivals and ceremonies etc., but he was not born of the spirit thru all those, hence he knew not Christ when he spoke right in front of him- the most important thing(eternal life). Empty lip service, which is what you get when you are not born again.

You buck not against my words , but the Lords words about religion being an obstacle. That which God gave for good is of nought because of sinful, unregenerate man. Salvation is of the Jews shows a righteous vehicle but… This is religion, feed the poor , help the sick , visit those in prison etc. (something CC is very very good at), but by none of these shalll one be saved, regenerated, born of the spirit.

Christ founded Judaism, even a Nation , to be the light of the world. You tell me how come their own God given religion got in the way, that they crucified Him , or that one of their leaders was totally unregenerate, as pointed out by Christ.

It is not either or. The church is quite visible. But the church , just like old Israel, doesn’t save you. Christ , the fruit of Israel and foundation of the church , saves one, and Christ calls and places one in the church. But yes , the Church as Old Israel have the Christ , to proclaim as Savior. Salvation is/was of the Jews as it is today of the Church , in Christ Jesus.

Blessings
 
Yes. Like Satan demanded to sift Peter like wheat, because Jesus kept him the closest.
Hi rc,

Yes, smart to go after the leader of the pack…yet Christ also says not one of the chosen were plucked out of His hand (save Judas) implying all were “sifted” and all were prayed for… But yes Peter’s fall/sifting was huge…Actually Jesus kept John the closest, but i get your point. Do not want to get into whom Christ holds closest.

Blessings
 
Oh I didn’t mean for you take my post in a negative or offending manner if you did. I perhaps more than some can very much understand your journey. Peace.
No worries. My apologies for taking it too much to heart. But I’ve come across the attitude that, “you’re still Catholic” far too often on here to sus out someone trying to bring some levity. But that’s on me not you.
 
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