T
Techno2000
Guest
She is the closest human to the divine than anyone else.
- Status
T
Techno2000
Guest
Why the Church fathers didn’t do this ?Muzhik:
I don’t get that… (G_D)… what’s the point ?
R
rcwitness
Guest
So she is still only human, right?
D
deacon3b
Guest
I find it hard to believe that you were in a place that you cannot even spell correctly. Medjugorje is not part of Chruch teaching so there’s also that one. A bit of advice here. Dishonesty will never get you anywhere when you are trying to convey a point or message. You can disagree with the Medjugorje phenom, but lying about actually being there is a sure bet that other posters will skim right past any of your comments.
P
petra22
Guest
She was a special human… what other human is FULL of GRACE? or the MOTHER of MY LORD? both things in the bible… 
D
Dorothy
Guest
Perhaps Jesus our Lord does not tell some people about His mother because He knows they are not ready to hear it. The Lord respects our free will and does not force anyone to accept all they can know.
Peace,
Dorothy
Peace,
Dorothy
R
rcwitness
Guest
Tell them what about His mother???
T
Techno2000
Guest
…Yes…
D
Dorothy
Guest
I was responding to a message given by “inbetweener” to “misstherese”.
“inbetweener” wrote: “Also a lot of Protestants have experiences with Jesus and why doesn’t he tell them about his mother.”
Peace,
Dorothy
“inbetweener” wrote: “Also a lot of Protestants have experiences with Jesus and why doesn’t he tell them about his mother.”
Peace,
Dorothy
J
JoyToTheWhirled
Guest
I had a dream about Mary before I was even close to being Catholic. I was a Reformed Baptist at the time. She was walking in front of me, turning towards me and holding out her hand for me to take in a welcoming gesture. I was very discombobulated by it when I woke up. Now I am nearly Catholic it is a very precious image in my mind.
R
rcwitness
Guest
That is cool. I can appreciate her, as Bride of Christ, representing all who call the world to believe and convert to her Son.
It’s funny to be bride and mother. But these are in spiritual ways.
It wasn’t the fact that she gave physical birth that made her special. It was both the grace given her and that she welcomed it with a pure heart.
But what does Jesus tell Catholics about her that He doesn’t tell all?
I’m not very moved by her apparitions. Though there was one that I read that was interesting. It was to a Protestant Community that use to be Catholic. Our Lady of Šiluva
It’s a cool story. The first apparition in Europe, and it was to Calvinists.
M
Muzhik
Guest
She is not only “human” (in that she is not a goddess or demigoddess like the Greeks had), by being preserved from the effects of original sin, she is the MOST human any of us have been since Adam and Eve. Note also that having been created sinless, both Adam and Eve had a close and special relationship with G_D, much like Mary had with Jesus.
rant:ON
Keep in mind that Mary has a special role that Americans in particular cannot understand. We have rejected royalty and therefore have rejected all modes and models of how to treat and understand royalty. I believe many Americans have rejected royalty to the extent that while they may say that “God is my king”, their actions say they view Him more of the CEO Emeritus of their church board: someone whose picture is in the entryway and whose contributions in the development of their church are honored, but who has been retired in order to lead the faithful to a fuller understanding of our creation and our relationship to our Creator.
Riiiiight…
rant:OFF
Jesus is Our King. Mary is the Mother of the King. For that reason alone we need to honor her. For all the Protestant theology talking about “Jesus restoring the Davidic Kingdom” on earth, none of them seem to take this into account. In David’s time, throughout the entire Middle East, no one (and I mean NOBODY) came into the presence of the king without being summoned. Those who did were executed on the spot before they could reach striking distance of the king. There were only two exceptions to this rule: In Israel, one who was an acknowledged prophet of the Lord could do so. In all the nations, though, only the Mother of the King could approach the king at any time. Her title in Hebrew is “Gebirah”.
Since people could not approach the king directly with their petitions, they would approach Gebirah to put forth their requests. Gebirah would then (if she chose) bring these requests to the king where, if it was in his power to do so, her requests would be granted. (See 1 Kings 2:12-25 )
Gebirah is a role that is mentioned many times in the Old Testament; there is no indication that this role was ever struck down or eliminated by G_D, and in fact we see it today where the Queen is always seated at the King’s right hand. We no longer need an intermediary to bring our petitions to G_D; still, the role of Gebirah has not been abolished. This means that when the Davidic Kingdom is restored and Jesus is on His Throne in Jerusalem, Mary will be seated at His right hand in the traditional position and role of Gebirah.
(You don’t think she’d be angry about all the times followers of Her Son put her down or rejected her, do you?)
When we pray to Mary (the root Latin word for “pray” means “to ask”, it does NOT mean “to worship”) for her aid and help in our lives and the lives of others, we are acknowledging and respecting Mary’s traditional role as Gebirah.
Last edited:
M
Muzhik
Guest
I beg to differ. There was an apparition of Mary to the apostle James the Greater in Zaragoza, Spain in the year 40 where he was evangelizing. She appeared to him standing on a wooden pillar (thus the title “Our Lady of Pilar”. A church still exists on the spot, almost 2,000 years later. There was also an apparition of Mary in Le Puy, France in 250.
So, no, the first European Marian apparition was not to Calvanists. That apparition is interesting, though, in that Lithuania began converting to Christianity in 1387 (it just seems weird to me that paganism was still strong in Europe at that time) and the church in Šiluva was constructed in 1457. It was destroyed in the 1500s by the Calvinists. Mary appeared there in 1608 and as a result, over a period of 80 years these fallen-away Catholics returned to Catholicism.
I
Inbetweener
Guest
Our Lady of zeitoun should be real as so many Muslims saw it and they checked it out, even Muslims got healed!
T
Techno2000
Guest
rcwitness:
I beg to differ. There was an apparition of Mary to the apostle James the Greater in Zaragoza, Spain in the year 40 where he was evangelizing. She appeared to him standing on a wooden pillar (thus the title “Our Lady of Pilar”. A church still exists on the spot, almost 2,000 years later. There was also an apparition of Mary in Le Puy, France in 250.
So, no, the first European Marian apparition was not to Calvanists. That apparition is interesting, though, in that Lithuania began converting to Christianity in 1387 (it just seems weird to me that paganism was still strong in Europe at that time) and the church in Šiluva was constructed in 1457. It was destroyed in the 1500s by the Calvinists. Mary appeared there in 1608 and as a result, over a period of 80 years these fallen-away Catholics returned to Catholicism.
M
Muzhik
Guest
The very first person who saw the apparition was a Muslim bus mechanic working across the street. He was afraid one of the nuns was going to commit suicide so he called for someone to call the police. Then he, and the crowd that gathered, stood in front of the Coptic Orthodox Church and watched as it became clear, this was not an earthly event. They watched until the apparition vanished after a few minutes.
The next morning, the mechanic went to the hospital, where he was scheduled to have his foot amputated to prevent a stubborn infection from spreading. To everyone’s amazement, when they went to prepare the foot for the surgery the doctors and nurses saw that the foot was completely healed.
The Coptic Orthodox Church issued a positive ruling on the apparitions on May 5, 1968.
M
Muzhik
Guest
Returning to the theme of “Gebirah”:
We see this in the Gospel story of the Wedding Feast at Cana (John 2:1-12). Mary, hearing the needs of the newlywed couple, approached her Son and simply said “They have no wine.” Jesus said to her, “Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come.” To that, Mary simply turned to the servers and told them to do whatever he said to do.
The word translated as “Woman” is actually an honorific. He’s not being scornful, He’s saying “Honored Lady”. She is fulfilling her role as Gebirah, relaying the needs of the people to the King, and now having done that, they both know that if it is in His power He must grant her request, even if it was not the right time to reveal Himself as the King.
I have this image that as Jesus tells her, "My hour has not yet come,” Mary gives him THAT look, that every good Jewish son knows. She then turns to the servants, tells them to do whatever he says, and walks a way. I picture Jesus saying something like:
“Ma? What are you doing, Ma? Come back here, Ma! I know what you’re doing! You’re still angry because I stayed behind at Temple that one time, aren’t you? Ma? It was 20 years ago, Ma! Give it a rest, already! Ma! Ma?! Oy, meshugga.” (That last part is delivered under His breath.) Then, He blesses this wedding with His miracle of turning water into wine.
(I’d also like to point out that the text specifically mention’s Mary’s presence at the wedding. Jesus and the disciples are included almost like an afterthought. To me, this means that Jesus was making a point on the honor that is His Mother’s due, that She was listed before Him as attendees. When you’re listing the people attending an event, you DON’T list your 3rd cousin’s daughter before the President of the United States. Additionally, John was making a point about Mary’s role as Gebirah and intercessor for the people.)
Last edited:
R
rcwitness
Guest
What is the source of this claim? And what does the Church say about this source?rcwitness:
I beg to differ. There was an apparition of Mary to the apostle James the Greater in Zaragoza, Spain in the year 40 where he was evangelizing. She appeared to him standing on a wooden pillar (thus the title “Our Lady of Pilar”. A church still exists on the spot, almost 2,000 years later. There was also an apparition of Mary in Le Puy, France in 250.
So, no, the first European Marian apparition was not to Calvanists. That apparition is interesting, though, in that Lithuania began converting to Christianity in 1387 (it just seems weird to me that paganism was still strong in Europe at that time) and the church in Šiluva was constructed in 1457. It was destroyed in the 1500s by the Calvinists. Mary appeared there in 1608 and as a result, over a period of 80 years these fallen-away Catholics returned to Catholicism.
But, sure… I should have said “the first widely known” as the website devoted the apparition states.
Last edited:
R
rcwitness
Guest
I like that you at least go to a solid source of Scripture here. Yes, Jesus honored her as we would expect Him to do.
What I don’t like to hear, is Catholics boasting that they honor her, but Protestants dont. Maybe some Protestants actually obey her Son better than many Catholics. But if we judge devotion on venerating images, reciting Rosaries, or wearing a scapular, then I think it’s a superfluous attempt to feel better.
What I don’t like to hear, is Catholics boasting that they honor her, but Protestants dont. Maybe some Protestants actually obey her Son better than many Catholics. But if we judge devotion on venerating images, reciting Rosaries, or wearing a scapular, then I think it’s a superfluous attempt to feel better.
B
Buddyroe
Guest
I don’t think Jesus our Lord or His mother are pleased with the constant bickering (Protestant and Catholic) on how to approach them in reasonable devotion.
Mary is who God chose as a perfect handmaid for the fulfillment of prophecy, Jesus is who He was preordained to be from before creation.
Mary is who God chose as a perfect handmaid for the fulfillment of prophecy, Jesus is who He was preordained to be from before creation.
- Status