Protestants: Sinner's Prayer-What must it say and does it assure Salvation?

[FrJohnB]

Fr John, if Brb3 want to continue this let him, think on John 15: 20-21 and let him push us further into the Kingdom.

Point well taken Padre, I had forgotten that piece of Jesus’ teaching for a moment.

 

[mikeledes]

We are fallable, we ALL fall EVERY day … short of Glory of God. But, do we Catholics think Christ rejects us/accepts us on moment by moment basis … dependent upon our ‘state of mind’ ?

We do enjoy SALVATION ASSURANCE … although some may not recognize it. Our first Pope fell short … yet quickly repented and recovered. Or current pope appears to of made some errors in judgment on matters of morals … yet, we KNOW he too will repent and recover. God always gives opportunity to his election to repent and recover. We can have ABSOLUTE assurance that our Lord will ALWAYS recover those He has rebirthed … unless we deliberately chose to become Apostates, and chose not to confess error.

If a Catholic determines they will not forsake Christ, and repents on daily basis, they can have absolute assurance … that Christ will not reject them. Every day they can live with absolute assurance … that Christ will forgive their daily sins. Christ taught the final 12 & Paul, who receive his H.S. … that they were to have full assurance. They all prayed the Sinner’s Prayer, probably daily, and they lived in ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE that they would be reunited with Christ on their last day.

Should modern day disciples have any less assurance than the 12 and Paul ? Is the Council of Trent teaching we can’t have Absolute Assurance that Christ will reclaim his own ? NO & NO. Provided we do as the 12 & Paul, repenting daily … incorporating the Sinner’s Prayer [or some form thereof ] into our daily lives. Not as Judas, who turned away and did not pray the Sinner’s Prayer — and did not find restoration/salvation in Christ. He only needed to of gone to Calvary, and made full ‘public’ confession at foot of Cross. Christ would of forgiven him just as surely as he did the ‘good thief’.

We all have been a ‘judas’, a ‘thief’, or a ‘cowardly / scared’ Peter … at some point in our lives. That’s why we need the SINNER’S PRAYER as key part of our Salvation Soteriology … its the PERSEVERANCE that Christ taught/desires of disciples, on daily basis.

The Council of Trent teaches that those who die in a state of grace are absolutely assured entry into eternal glory. But it also teaches that we do not have absolute assurance that we will die in a state of grace. If we live a life of faith, a life that is holy and sacramental on a regular basis, then we can enjoy a high level of assurance, but it is a conditioned assurance and not an absolute assurance. And when we do sin, we don’t need a Protestant sinner’s prayer. We have the act of contrition in which we recognize and repent of our sins and turn to God for mercy.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

We have absolute assurance in God’s faithfulness, that He will fulfill what He has promised. We don’t have absolute assurance of our own faithfulness, that we will be faithful to the end.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[brb3]

The Council of Trent teaches that those who die in a state of grace are absolutely assured entry into eternal glory. But it also teaches that we do not have absolute assurance that we will die in a state of grace. If we live a life of faith, a life that is holy and sacramental on a regular basis, then we can enjoy a high level of assurance, but it is a conditioned assurance and not an absolute assurance. And when we do sin, we don’t need a Protestant sinner’s prayer. We have the act of contrition in which we recognize and repent of our sins and turn to God for mercy.

When I say SINNER’S PRAYER … I put in brackets after it with the explanation : [or some form thereof]. I agree we only need the ‘full version’ of sinner’s prayer when we first come to Christ as new converts. Thereafter, we don’t need to deal with our separation from God, as one of the lost. We now are God’s new adoption, in full standing / fellowhip … unless we later become Prodigals. In such cases, we would then pray a ‘sinner’s prayer’ … as the prodigal did.

Most of the time, we are not living the Prodigal Life. So, we need to pray a ‘sinner’s prayer’ that fits our circumstances. If our prayer is not true to our circumstances … it won’t have appropriate CONTENT/CONTEXT, and will not be acceptible to our Father.

I think the Catholic Church’s prayers at Mass are FABULOUS. They are EXACTLY what we on most Sundays need to cover, at weekly Confession to the Father. We generally also publically say the Lord’s Prayer — given us by Christ. This is the BEST and Most Efficacious Prayer ever composed. Nevertheless, it was given to the Elect by Christ … to KEEP US persevering.

For a SINNER initially coming to the Father thru Christ … the SINNER’S PRAYER composed by the Protestants … is highly efficacious, and has brought MILLION & MILLIONS of the lost to their Initial Justification [Step 1]. IMO, the Catholic Church is THE BEST means to enable a believer to PERSEVERE [Step 2]. I wish all Protestants would discover the many Secondary Graces that the Church and its Sacraments afford — providing Christians their best opportunity to persevere til their Last Day.

 

[mikeledes]

And let’s talk about Peter. Peter thought he would never betray Jesus:

**But Peter said to Him, “Even though all may fall away because of You, I will never fall away.” Jesus said to him, “Truly I say to you that this very night, before a rooster crows, you will deny Me three times.” Peter said to Him, “Even if I have to die with You, I will not deny You.” All the disciples said the same thing too. **

Peter was abosolutely certain (i.e. “NEVER”) he would not fall away. And yet, he fell. We can have a high level of assurance at a given moment of our salvation, but we cannot have absolute assurance that we will never fall away and lose our salvation.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

When I say SINNER’S PRAYER … I put in brackets after it with the explanation : [or some form thereof]. I agree we only need the ‘full version’ of sinner’s prayer when we first come to Christ as new converts. Thereafter, we don’t need to deal with our separation from God, as one of the lost. We now are God’s new adoption, in full standing / fellowhip … unless we later become Prodigals. In such cases, we would then pray a ‘sinner’s prayer’ … as the prodigal did.

Most of the time, we are not living the Prodigal Life. So, we need to pray a ‘sinner’s prayer’ that fits our circumstances. If our prayer is not true to our circumstances … it won’t have appropriate CONTENT/CONTEXT, and will not be acceptible to our Father.

I think the Catholic Church’s prayers at Mass are FABULOUS. They are EXACTLY what we on most Sunday’s need to cover, at weekly Confession to the Father. We generally also publically say the Lord’s Prayer — given us by Christ. This is the BEST and Most Efficacious Prayer ever composed. Nevertheless, it was given to the Elect by Christ … to KEEP US persevering.

For a SINNER initially coming to the Father thru Christ … the SINNER’S PRAYER composed by the Protestants … is highly efficacious, and has brought MILLION & MILLIONS of the lost to their Initial Justification [Step 1]. IMO, the Catholic Church is THE BEST means to enable a believer to PERSEVERE [Step 2]. I wish all Protestants would discover the many Secondary Graces that the Church and its Sacraments afford — providing Christians their best opportunity to persevere til their Last Day.

Perhaps the Sinner’s Prayer had been a means of bringing people to Christ… though I question whether it is the Sinner’s prayer per se that does that… but the perfect replaces the imperfect. Catholics possess the fullness of truth and the means of grace ordained by God, the sacraments. We don’t have to resort to a Protestant Sinner’s prayer.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[brb3]

And let’s talk about Peter. Peter thought he would never betray Jesus:

But Peter said to Him, "Even though all may fall away because of You, I will never fall away." Jesus said to him, “Truly I say to you that this very night, before a rooster crows, you will deny Me three times.” Peter said to Him, “Even if I have to die with You, I will not deny You.” All the disciples said the same thing too.

Peter was abosolutely certain (i.e. “NEVER”) he would not fall away. And yet, he fell. We can have a high level of assurance at a given moment of our salvation, but we cannot have absolute assurance that we will never fall away and lose our salvation.

Good point !!! But, this was BEFORE Christ breathed H.S. into the Apostles. Before they were INFUSED with Christ’s Spirit.

Now, whenever we sin, we are instantly convicted thereof by God’s Spirit … and we are expected to promptly repent. We no longer need to wait for the Cock’s Crow.

 

[mikeledes]

Good point !!! But, this was BEFORE Christ breathed H.S. into the Apostles. Before they were INFUSED with Christ’s Spirit.

Now, whenever we sin, we are instantly convicted thereof by God’s Spirit … and we are expected to promptly repent. We no longer need to wait for the Cock’s Crow.

But they were already justifed prior to Christ’s crucifixion (John 13:10). In other words, they were already saved.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[brb3]

Perhaps the Sinner’s Prayer had been a means of bringing people to Christ… though I question whether it is the Sinner’s prayer per se that does that… but the perfect replaces the imperfect. Catholics possess the fullness of truth and the means of grace ordained by God, the sacraments. We don’t have to resort to a Protestant Sinner’s prayer.

Perhaps ?? This is beyond dispute. Hundreds of Millions, nay even BILLIONS have been renewed by the SINNER’S PRAYER.

Saidly, w/o the Sacraments & superior teachings of the Church, many will be deceived by OSAS teachings … and fall into Apostasy. Then again, we know our share of Catholics who likewise fall away.

What % of Catholics go to Mass weekly ?.. 18 %. What’s the % for Protestants ? [also 18 %]. Seems like 1 in 5 converts are perseverers.

 

[brb3]

But they were already justifed prior to Christ’s crucifixion (John 13:10). In other words, they were already saved.

Yes [Step 1 had occurred] … But, why did Christ breathe the H.S. into them ?

Makes my point that [Step 2] , Perseverance, … follows TEMPORALLY.

 

[mikeledes]

Perhaps ?? This is beyond dispute. Hundreds of Millions, nay even BILLIONS have been renewed by the SINNER’S PRAYER.

Saidly, w/o the Sacraments & superior teachings of the Church, many will be deceived by OSAS teachings … and fall into Apostasy. Then again, we know our share of Catholics who likewise fall away.

What % of Catholics go to Mass weekly ?.. 18 %. What’s the % for Protestants ? [also 18 %]. Seems like 1 in 5 converts are perseverers.

It is the Holy Spirit and the grace of God that has renewed them, not the Sinner’s prayer.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

Yes [Step 1 had occurred] … But, why did Christ breathe the H.S. into them ?

Makes my point that [Step 2] , Perseverance, … follows TEMPORALLY.

To empower them. Perseverance temporally follows justification, but perseverance is not absolutely assured.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[brb3]

Catholics have a ‘sinner’s prayer’, it’s called the Act of Contrition:

YES we do !! Thanks you for making the connection. That’s the protestant beginnings still alive in you

Catch you latter. I’m off to Noon Mass for some weekly sinner’s prayer contrition and receipt of BODY & BLOOD. I need all the Secondary Graces available thru the Church, that the Protestant churches don’t offer so completely.

 

[mikeledes]

YES we do !! Thanks you for making the connection. That’s the protestant beginnings still alive in you

Catch you latter. I’m off to Noon Mass for some weekly sinner’s prayer contrition and receipt of BODY & BLOOD. I need all the Secondary Graces available thru the Church, that the Protestant churches don’t offer so completely.

May God richly bless you! What “protestant beginnings?” I’ve never been Protestant.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[Anna_Scott]

This thread has taken an interesting turn.

Brb3,

I can’t quite reconcile your comments with your Catholicism. Am I missing something, here?

Anna

 

[brb3]

It is the Holy Spirit and the grace of God that has renewed them, not the Sinner’s prayer.

Yes, Grace of God brings about all renewal … but, the Sinner’s Prayer brings the Protestants to their first CONFESSION, where they verbally express their remorse/contrition to our High Priest Christ.

 

[JustaServant]

May God richly bless you! What “protestant beginnings?” I’ve never been Protestant.

God Bless,
Michael

I have no clue what she is talking about either. I was raised Catholic, became evangelical for twenty years then returned to the Church.

 

[brb3]

To empower them. Perseverance temporally follows justification, but perseverance is not absolutely assured.

Yes, to empower … and also to SEAL them as the Adoption of God, IN CHRIST.

Perserverance is one key role of the Church. Getting those Sealed, to the finish line … that Paul talks of. Paul had two major duties … Getting people sealed, and helping them persevere. Both of these he accomplished thru the primitive Universal Church we now know as the One, Holy, and Apostolic Church — later set forth in the Nicean Creed, which Protestants also confess, as part of their heritage/tradition.

 

[brb3]

I have no clue what she is talking about either. I was raised Catholic, became evangelical for twenty years then returned to the Church.

Yes, talking to JustaServ … about his evangelical past. Not his beginning, but his middle 2 decades. Catholic to Protestant to Catholic. JustaServ should know about the efficacious effect of Sinner’s Prayer on the heathen.

 

[brb3]

I can’t quite reconcile your comments with your Catholicism. Am I missing something, here?

I can’t match JustaServ. But, a Protestant Evangelical beginning - to Prodigal middle - to Catholic in last year.

I’m still learning the Catholic Dogma