Protestants: Sinner's Prayer-What must it say and does it assure Salvation?

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Jesus Prayer is something completely different than the Sinners Prayer, at least certianly the ancient one I’m thinking of is. But a single prayer isn’t the bedrock of the faith, Christ the Lord is and that transends any single prayer. At least now I’m confident you’re not walking down a bad path (I have to agree with Father, what are you doing going to confession that often?). But you are certainly not understanding what the sinners prayer is in context of the OP which is percisly the context you explicitly said you were addressing. Father John B and Padrej both made valid points about the profession of faith in general, and liken it to the sinners prayer however while they made great points they weren’t directly addressing the OP as you said you were going to.

In context, the sinners prayer is a tradition of man designed to give believers an ultimatly false reassurance of their salvation. It’s designed specifically to make them think not even taking a gun to a mans head, pulling the trigger, and remaining unrepentant could send you to hell. OK, perhaps I’m being a little flipant here, I think these denoms have various ways of explaining why this person was going to hell, most would say he didn’t really believe probably. But in some way, it is infact percisly this that they try to sell. “If you were to die today, do you have aboslute assurance that you would go to Heaven”? That’s the question, no honest Christian should say yes to this… But many honest ones do, because they’ve been lead astray.
The first time I read your last paragraph I got upset, then I came back and re-read it and by golly you are correct. I have just never heart it put so bluntly. Sadly many of the revivalist mentality as I like to call them sell exactly what you speak of, that “assurance” but fail to say you have to change after the confession/profession of your faith in Christ. In short it becomes a get them to the altar and get them saved and see how many I have brought into the kingdom mentality with that type of preacher. If anything this thread has done it has opened my eyes even more as a Protestant to the need for the follow up after the profession of faith. Thank you for being blunt. And thank you to Anna for starting this.👍
Padrej,

crazzeto did p(name removed by moderator)oint the issue in his own wonderfully “blunt” way (which I have come to really appreciate, BTW.) Christians are being misled from pulpits of Churches and TV ministries. The “Sinner’s Prayer” is presented as the one way ticket to heaven, no matter how many stops you make along the way. The Sinner’s Prayer is 'fire insurance,"and IMHO creates a narcissistic Christian mindset: What can this prayer do for me? If you pair this with the prosperity Gospels; people serve God for what they are promised in return, i.e. health, wealth, and prosperity. God becomes a Genie on standby to grant all our wishes. This is one of the great tragedies of our time.
Anna
 
At least now I’m confident you’re not walking down a bad path (I have to agree with Father, what are you doing going to confession that often?).

In context, the sinners prayer is a tradition of man designed to give believers an ultimatly false reassurance of their salvation.
Daily confession is Normative. We have public confession and private. And a young child knows the difference between. Don’t you teach your children to say their bedtime prayers. God expects Christians to exercise BOTH avenues for repentance.

If you and Father John are not confessing privately on daily basis … you are leaving opportunity for satan to lead you astray. How often did Daniel pray ? Protestants are very good about daily prayers. Why, even the sons of Ismael pray several times daily …🙂 Are they more informed and righteous than the Catholics here ? :o
 
Protestants: Sinner’s Prayer-What must it say and does it assure Salvation?

I am a former Baptist, visiting an Episcopal Church. I know that most Baptists and many other Protestant Christians believe one must pray some form of what is called the “Sinner’s Prayer” to receive salvation.

For those who believe in the Sinner’s Prayer:

(1.) What elements must the Sinner’s Prayer contain?

(2.) If all the elements of the Sinner’s Prayer are prayed, with a sincere heart, does that assure salvation immediately and forever, even before judgment?

or

(3.) If all the elements of the Sinner’s Prayer are prayed, with a sincere heart, does that place a person on the path to salvation, without assurance of salvation, until judgment?

(4.) What Scriptures reveal the need to pray the Sinner’s Prayer?

(5.) What is the approximate date of the earliest known practice of the Sinner’s Prayer?

I welcome all comments.

Anna
Speaking as a former Protestant minister, I always had problems with the ‘sinners prayer’ even as a preacher. And I might add, many other Protestant pastors have a problem with it as well, so it is not a peculiar reaction relegated to one side of the River Tiber.
It’s origins come from the 18th to 19th century sawdust revivalist movements, particularily a preacher named Charles Finney. He took the Methodist ‘morner’s bench’ to the next level and created what we know today as the ‘invitation’. It should be noted Finney was opposed by many Protestants of his day and today.
There are no ‘magic words’ that get one an instant ticket to Heaven. Today, only the most radical fundamentalists still push the ‘sinner’s prayer’.
 
Daily confession is Normative. We have public confession and private. And a young child knows the difference between. Don’t you teach your children to say their bedtime prayers. God expects Christians to exercise BOTH avenues for repentance.

If you and Father John are not confessing privately on daily basis … you are leaving opportunity for satan to lead you astray. How often did Daniel pray ? Protestants are very good about daily prayers. Why, even the sons of Ismael pray several times daily …🙂 Are they more informed and righteous than the Catholics here ? :o
If daily confession is normative, then this is the first I’ve heard about it… And I don’t include saying “I’m sorry for my faults today Jesus”, because while that is infact a terrific thing to do, it doesn’t absolve.
 
=Padrej;6517651]My lines as an Anglican Bishop have Roman Catholic succession as well as Orthodox. I do not think we need to get into the battle over whose order’s are valid. as St. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 3 when we say we are of this group or that we are CARNAL. From what I have read of your post I would not want to think you to be in that category.
*Your Excellency;

It has to do with a direct line of successiopn, and might I suggest that it is what God accepts, rather than what we think that really matters?

Thank you for your post. God Bless you and thank you for your Mnistery!

To Christ through Mary,*
 
*Your Excellency;

It has to do with a direct line of successiopn, and might I suggest that it is what God accepts, rather than what we think that really matters?

Thank you for your post. God Bless you and thank you for your Mnistery!

To Christ through Mary,*
PMJ,

I don’t usually “get on your case,” but you managed to condescend, express thanks, and insult, in only 3 sentences.

Anna
 
PMJ,

I don’t usually “get on your case,” but you managed to condescend, express thanks, and insult, in only 3 sentences.

Anna
I think that PJM probably misinterpreted what Pardej said in response to my comment about succession. Needless to say, Padrej’s response is adiquate in this laymans eyes to justify his having valid Apistolic succession (and by extension any priest he ordains) even if such succession is irregular. Of course we could continue the conversation from this point, but that would lead us all wildly off topic and I would hate to do that to your thread 🙂

Needless to say, Padrej answered my original questions more than sufficiently. And I agree, PJM certainly lacked the kind of charity one should always wish for here.
 
Speaking as a former Protestant minister, I always had problems with the ‘sinners prayer’ even as a preacher. And I might add, many other Protestant pastors have a problem with it as well, so it is not a peculiar reaction relegated to one side of the River Tiber.
It’s origins come from the 18th to 19th century sawdust revivalist movements, particularily a preacher named Charles Finney. He took the Methodist ‘morner’s bench’ to the next level and created what we know today as the ‘invitation’. It should be noted Finney was opposed by many Protestants of his day and today.
There are no ‘magic words’ that get one an instant ticket to Heaven. Today, only the most radical fundamentalists still push the ‘sinner’s prayer’.
JustaServant,

I agree and appreciate your insights as a former Protestant minister. The Baptists still cling to this prayer. I recently discussed the issue with a close friend (Baptist,) and the fact that I am attending an Episcopal Church. During the conversation, I told her there are no “alter calls” in the Episcopal Church. She immediately said, “What about the plan of salvation?” She could not comprehend salvation without alter calls and a Sinner’s Prayer that brings about immediate, and assured salvation. As I have said many times, indoctrination is difficult to escape. I still struggle with the residue of my Baptist indoctrination. But then, that is no secret to anyone who has read many of my posts.

Anna
 
I think that PJM probably misinterpreted what Pardej said in response to my comment about succession. Needless to say, Padrej’s response is adiquate in this laymans eyes to justify his having valid Apistolic succession (and by extension any priest he ordains) even if such succession is irregular. Of course we could continue the conversation from this point, but that would lead us all wildly off topic and I would hate to do that to your thread 🙂

Needless to say, Padrej answered my original questions more than sufficiently. And I agree, PJM certainly lacked the kind of charity one should always wish for here.
Well, I do not always demonstrate “charity,” in my posts. I was just “ribbing” PMJ a bit. His comments were actually pretty tame. I know the authority issue is always, there–even when it is not mentioned. I struggle with the issue myself–embracing the Episcopal Church, but not quite able to embrace Catholicism and faithfulness to the Magisterium. Maybe I’m right. Maybe I’m wrong. I think about this often. Perhaps, my own ambivalence caused me to overreact to PMJ’s comments. I’d say that’s a pretty good possibility.

Anna
 
Com’on Anna & Padrej, you guys know Anglicanorum Coetibus is calling you 😉
 
Here are some Protestant voices on the ‘sinner’s prayer’:

Charles Spurgeon (a Baptist):
"Sometimes we are inclined to think that a very great portion of modern revivalism has been more a curse than a blessing, because it has led thousands to a kind of peace before they have known their misery; restoring the prodigal to the Father’s house, and never making him say, ‘Father, I have sinned.’ How can he be healed who is not sick? or he be satisfied with the bread of life who is not hungry? The old-fashioned sense of sin is despised, and consequently a religion is run up before the foundations are dug out. Everything in this age is shallow. Deep-sea fishing is almost an extinct business so far as men’s souls are concerned. The consequence is that men leap into religion, and then leap out again. Unhumbled they come to the church, unhumbled they remained in it, and unhumbled they go from it.
David Martin Lloyd-Jones (a Presbyterian):
"Most would agree with my sixth point which is that this method tends to produce a superficial conviction of sin, if any at all. People often respond because they have the impression that by doing so they will receive certain benefits. . . .
"Or take another illustration out of my own experience. In the church where I ministered in South Wales I used to stand at the main door of the church at the close of the service on Sunday night, and shake hands with people as they went out. The incident to which I am referring concerns a man who used to come to our service every Sunday night. He was a tradesman but also a heavy drinker. He got drunk regularly every Saturday night, but he was also regularly seated in the gallery of our church every Sunday night. On the particular night to which I am referring I happened to notice while preaching that this man was obviously being affected. I could see that he was weeping copiously, and I was anxious to know what was happening to him. At the end of the service I went and stood at the door. After a while I saw this man coming, and immediately I was in a real mental conflict. Should I, in view of what I had seen, say a word to him and ask him to make his decision that night, or should I not? Would I be interfering with the work of the Spirit if I did so? Hurriedly I decided that I would not ask him to stay behind, so I just greeted him as usual and he went out. His face revealed that he had been crying copiously, an he could scarcely look at me. The following evening I was walking to the prayer-meeting in the church, and, going over a railway bridge, I saw this same man coming to meet me. He came across the road to me and said, ‘You know, doctor, if you had asked me to stay behind last night I would have done so.’ ‘Well,’ I said, ‘I am asking you now, come with me now.’ ‘Oh no,’ he replied, ‘but if you had asked me last night I would have done so.’ ‘My dear friend,’ I said, ‘if what happened to you last night does not last for twenty-four hours I am not interested in it. If you are not as ready to come with me now as you were last night you have not got the right, the true thing. Whatever affected you last night was only temporary and passing, you still do not see your real need of Christ.’
 
Com’on Anna & Padrej, you guys know Anglicanorum Coetibus is calling you 😉
You know, Crazzeto, that’s twice now that you’ve made me laugh out loud in the library. Getting looks from those quietly working. I know I walked right into this one, and I sense your sheer delight in reminding us of the ANGLICANORUM COETIBUS.

Here I am, doing all this work and study, considering confirmation into the Episcopal Church, determined to avoid submission to the Magisterium. However-----the Episcopal Rector is so “conservative” and so “Catholic;” I may very well be on a path to the Catholic Church. Maybe I should get better acquainted with the CCC. 😊

Anna
 
You know, Crazzeto, that’s twice now that you’ve made me laugh out loud in the library. Getting looks from those quietly working. I know I walked right into this one, and I sense your sheer delight in reminding us of the ANGLICANORUM COETIBUS.

Here I am, doing all this work and study, considering confirmation into the Episcopal Church, determined to avoid submission to the Magisterium. However-----the Episcopal Rector is so “conservative” and so “Catholic;” I may very well be on a path to the Catholic Church. Maybe I should get better acquainted with the CCC. 😊

Anna
NOOOOOOO - we’re losing all our best people! 😃
 
I haven’t crossed over yet. I’m trying to hang on blazerdave.

Anna
Haha no worries…just messing with ya! They certainly have much much to commend them (with 2000 years of existence, parishes all over the world, Popes that date back to a pretty awesome Apostle, the word “billion” after the number of Faithful, etc.), although we still have the best music 😃 😃 😃
Oh com’on Dave, there’s plenty of room for you and all your best people :cool:

😉
Haha indeed, indeed…keep workin’ on it! LOL. I’m being Confirmed in two weeks, so it might be awhile. But ya never know…stranger things have happened (and if stranger things continue to happen to my Church and if **all **the traditionalists disappear, I’m expecting you guys to save me a seat just in case I need it!). 😉
 
Here are some Protestant voices on the ‘sinner’s prayer’:

Charles Spurgeon (a Baptist):

Quote:
"Sometimes we are inclined to think that a very great portion of modern revivalism has been more a curse than a blessing, because it has led thousands to a kind of peace before they have known their misery; restoring the prodigal to the Father’s house, and never making him say, ‘Father, I have sinned.’ How can he be healed who is not sick? or he be satisfied with the bread of life who is not hungry? The old-fashioned sense of sin is despised, and consequently a religion is run up before the foundations are dug out. Everything in this age is shallow. Deep-sea fishing is almost an extinct business so far as men’s souls are concerned. The consequence is that men leap into religion, and then leap out again. Unhumbled they come to the church, unhumbled they remained in it, and unhumbled they go from it.

David Martin Lloyd-Jones (a Presbyterian):

Quote:
"Most would agree with my sixth point which is that this method tends to produce a superficial conviction of sin, if any at all. People often respond because they have the impression that by doing so they will receive certain benefits. . . .

"Or take another illustration out of my own experience. In the church where I ministered in South Wales I used to stand at the main door of the church at the close of the service on Sunday night, and shake hands with people as they went out. The incident to which I am referring concerns a man who used to come to our service every Sunday night. He was a tradesman but also a heavy drinker. He got drunk regularly every Saturday night, but he was also regularly seated in the gallery of our church every Sunday night. On the particular night to which I am referring I happened to notice while preaching that this man was obviously being affected. I could see that he was weeping copiously, and I was anxious to know what was happening to him. At the end of the service I went and stood at the door. After a while I saw this man coming, and immediately I was in a real mental conflict. Should I, in view of what I had seen, say a word to him and ask him to make his decision that night, or should I not? Would I be interfering with the work of the Spirit if I did so? Hurriedly I decided that I would not ask him to stay behind, so I just greeted him as usual and he went out. His face revealed that he had been crying copiously, an he could scarcely look at me. The following evening I was walking to the prayer-meeting in the church, and, going over a railway bridge, I saw this same man coming to meet me. He came across the road to me and said, ‘You know, doctor, if you had asked me to stay behind last night I would have done so.’ ‘Well,’ I said, ‘I am asking you now, come with me now.’ ‘Oh no,’ he replied, ‘but if you had asked me last night I would have done so.’ ‘My dear friend,’ I said, ‘if what happened to you last night does not last for twenty-four hours I am not interested in it. If you are not as ready to come with me now as you were last night you have not got the right, the true thing. Whatever affected you last night was only temporary and passing, you still do not see your real need of Christ.’
JustaServant,

Very interesting quotes. Thanks for posting them.

I do think people often confuse emotion with repentance and a sincere decision to follow Christ. There are plenty of ministers who can stir up a crowd, these days. But what happens when the emotion subsides? I think this is one of the reasons I am so attracted to liturgical worship. In that calmness, I am more open to Christ; and more repentant in spirit.

Sometimes in today’s churches, the preachers are so loud, one cannot hear the voice of God.

Anna
 
=brb3;6527649]Make up your mind ! Is God divisive or a harmonizer / unifier ?
Lets look to Paul’s apologetics.
2 Cor. 5:17-20 “Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ RECONCILED US TO HIMSELF and gave us the MINISTRY OF RECONCILIATION; that is, God was in Christ RECONCILING THE WORLD TO HIMSELF, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the MESSAGE OF RECONCILIATION. So we are ambassodors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We beseech you on behalf of Christ, BE RECONCILED TO GOD.”
***God came to save the souls of His Created.

He came to devide us from sin, to teach us what is right and what is expected and to unify us with the Trinity,.***
 
***God came to save the souls of His Created.

He came to devide us from sin, to teach us what is right and what is expected and to unify us with the Trinity,.***
PJM,

I was a bit rough on you earlier, today–I’m sorry.

Also, I keep calling you PMJ, instead of PJM. Guess my dyslexia is kicking in. 😊

I’ll try to be nicer tomorrow. 🙂

Anna
 
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