Protestants: Sola Fide?

[Teflon93]

totally

unnecessary for salvation and Christianity: after all, Jesus didn’t write anything down so therefore written words are not important (especially second and third hand accounts).

Well, no kra130, St Paul did NOT say that. What he said was “But if by grace, it is no longer because of works; otherwise grace would be no longer grace.”

AND, verses 1 through 10 of Chapter 11 are being addressed to “Israel,” the Jews who have been unfaithful to the message of the Gospel.

You have to read Scripture in context.

Sort of like, you know, finding where it is in the Bible that says “you are saved by faith alone.”

Robert

Context is apparently necessary only to explain away James.

One should also note that the thief took up his cross and followed Christ when it counted—and in a very literal fashion. He did of course make a statement, which is an action, as well. And for a man dying in agony in the way he was, making such statements certainly required some effort. It was also an act of no small courage, given that one would not expect the Roman guards to like such a thing.

 

[ScottishColleen]

grandfather, my answer to your question would be that my faith is not of myself, but given to me by God. Thus yes, Faith Alone can save and produce works…none of it, Faith nor Works is of my own, but by the Grace of God.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

One should also note that the thief took up his cross and followed Christ when it counted—and in a very literal fashion. He did of course make a statement, which is an action, as well. And for a man dying in agony in the way he was, making such statements certainly required some effort. It was also an act of no small courage, given that one would not expect the Roman guards to like such a thing.

Yes. Afterall, the thief could not very well defend himself or run away should an angry Roman guard take issue with his confession.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

grandfather, my answer to your question would be that my faith is not of myself, but given to me by God. Thus yes, Faith Alone can save and produce works…none of it, Faith nor Works is of my own, but by the Grace of God.

God bless the Scots, but for the life of me, I do not know where you came up with this assertion! Faith is given to one by God. Doled out like so many tickets to a Big Country concert???

Ay Carumba!

Robert

 

[Contarini]

God bless the Scots, but for the life of me, I do not know where you came up with this assertion! Faith is given to one by God. Doled out like so many tickets to a Big Country concert???

This is a pretty uncontroversial, orthodox assertion, it would seem to me. Ephesians 2:8 is the clearest Biblical affirmation of this, but see also Aquinas, Secunda Secundae, Question 6, Article 1. Note that he describes the view you seem to be defending as Pelagian. That is not a good thing!

Edwin

 

[Afterburned6387]

I have a related question for those posting who are Catholic.

If a person is by all standards a good God-fearing catholic, in good standing with his church, and free from mortal sin, and he gets hit by a bus walking home from work, he goes to heaven, right?

Now lets say that same person instead goes to a motel, and sleeps with a woman who isn’t his wife. This is a pretty clear mortal sin. If he then gets hit by a bus on his way back home from the motel, according to Catholic doctrine, doesn’t he go to hell?

And then, if Last Rites are administered to the person, doesn’t his soul go back to heaven?

And furthermore, if a person is excommunicated from the church, and salvation only comes through the church, won’t that person go to hell regardless of faith or actions? And, if many people, including popes were excommunicated posthumously, does this mean they went from heaven to hell?

Before I go on, I would like to check that those premises are true.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

If a person is by all standards a good God-fearing catholic, in good standing with his church, and free from mortal sin, and he gets hit by a bus walking home from work, he goes to heaven, right?

Assuming that God in His mercy accepts this person into Heaven, regardless of “good standing” (whatever THAT means) and whatever “standards” are important (you don’t say).

Now lets say that same person instead goes to a motel, and sleeps with a woman who isn’t his wife. This is a pretty clear mortal sin. If he then gets hit by a bus on his way back home from the motel, according to Catholic doctrine, doesn’t he go to hell?

Yes, adultery is a grave sin and assuming (again, you don’t say) that all three requirements are met, then this ‘person’ has committed a grave sin. If, by your sparse posited facts, he dies before being repenitent (to God) then he (in all likelihood due to the totality of his life up to that point) go to Purgatory.

Maybe in some Protestant playbooks God is still seen as an Old Testament-style Lord of Wrath and Anger, but, Jesus taught (and the Catholic Church recorded in the Bible) that to “be perfect as my heavenly Father is perfect” is to be “merciful.”

I don’t think you’ll find anyone here (who is Catholic) that will consign this ‘person’ to Hell.

And then, if Last Rites are administered to the person, doesn’t his soul go back to heaven?

What you term “Last Rites” are now termed Anointing of the Sick and entails a Confession of the dying or extremely sick person’s sins and (assuming truly repenitent) forgiveness of those sins (see James 5:15).

So, yes, he would go to Heaven if administered the Anointing of the Sick sacrament and he has been as you have posited: a good and holy man.

And furthermore, if a person is excommunicated from the church, and salvation only comes through the church, won’t that person go to hell regardless of faith or actions? And, if many people, including popes were excommunicated posthumously, does this mean they went from heaven to hell?

“Excommunicated” for what? If the excommunication was valid (and not the act of some renegade bishop) then any priest (even those who are deprived of faculties for hearing confessions) can absolve this person from any and all sins, including excommunication.

Assuming this person dies without the Sacrament of Anointing of the Sick and without a priest nearby and has not had a change of heart (only God knows) about his recent action at the No Tell Motel, then my prior answer stands.

If this person is ONLY excommunicated, God may or may not bring him to Heaven straightway or send him to Purgatory. Assuming the excommunication is valid, then this person would probably be in Purgatory.

I don’t think the Church has EVER said anyone has gone to Hell or to Heaven or to Purgatory.

As to the bad Popes. Well, like all bad Presidents and Celebrities and Authors and Professional Athletes, the position does not ensure holiness.

But there has never been a change of Doctrine or Dogma due to a “bad” Pope. The bad Popes were too concerned with personal sins or worldly affairs to look to those who serve God.

I hope this helps

Robert