Hi Gary I had to go back to reread my opening post. But I see I did write “if Catholic teachings needed reformed”. “If” being the key there. I’m interested in the Protestant perspective of the 1500 yrs and I am grateful for the answers I have received thus far. God bless you and peace.No I simply stated facts.
Your opening post suggested the “Catholic teachings needed reform”
CCC is a great source to go to for answers about Catholic catechism. But how does CCC explain to me how Protestants answer the 1st 1500 yrs? This is the non Catholic forum with lots of Protestants here to provide answers.
Yes, I have experienced these things… .especially glossing over the first 1500 years and believing that Luther “fixed them” and concentrating a lot on Paul; but I am learning some things:thumbsup:Well…I’m going to dwelve into this…coming from a 20+ year tradition as a Protestant…before I came back home last year.
As a Protestant…it was really easy to ignore the first years before the reformation. We tended to gloss over a lot of that…not getting too deep into it…other then obviously that the CC had really gone wrong which was “fixed” by Luther. It’s interesting that Radical brought up the real presence because actually Luther did not have a problem with the real presence…
Things such as the Catholic bible vs.“our” bible…well the Catholics added of course…
We did not believe that Peter was the start of the Church…we prefered to concentrate on Paul…
But once I started investigating history…well…that’s part of what started me home.
Of course some (not all) Protestants do not view Catholics as christian…
But then of course it’s going to depend on what denomination of Protestant you talk about…some have more developed theology then others.
Yes Curious, of course the question is in good will.
Assuming this question is open in goodwill, allow me an opinion, by addressing it.
Personal perspective on anything is based on personal understanding.
We see no further than the eyes we are given.
Catholics are steeped in the indoctrination that their view is the only view that constitutes the Church founded by Christ.
I say indoctrination in order to underline the default perspective Catholics adopt when the word Church is presented.
So, it is not surprising then to hear a Catholic mantra, given a Catholic teaching.
Catholics believe, starting with Peter, history speaks in support of the Catholic Church, as the legitimate Church intended by Christ.
But, was the Catholic Church the Church of day one?
The Catholic Church says yes; but, history says no.
Is the Catholic view the longest held within the Christian Church?
The Catholic Church says yes and history says yes.
Two thousand years of Catholic tradition.
Age may be contributory to wisdom or senility; but is not authoritative per se, by either.
If it is, the Christian upstart fails, given comparison to Judaism.
History shows that the Christian Church is expressed in Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox denominations.
If a denomination should prefer to label itself as Church, as Catholics choose, so be it.
Reformation is not a singular event born in 1054, but an ongoing process, since Matthew 16:18.
The 1054 Reformation was another advent in that process.
Is every Christian who is not Catholic lost to God?
I don’t think so, though perhaps the Catholic Church does; but, probably does not.
And if not, then Catholics agree that non-Catholic Christians have access to the Father through Christ.
By comparison to that significance, everything else is one’s own window dressing, isn’t it?
The contributions of Catholic thought to the Christian Church are ineffably profound – for which, all Christians are grateful – but, history demonstrates God does not want the Keys to rest with Catholics exclusively; regardless, of the Catholic spin on events, attempting to convince others [or themselves], otherwise.
Interestingly, your observation that your Protestant friend found your question made no sense to her is similar to my experience with Catholics. My questioning of their view makes no sense to them.
Thank you, for posing the issue; though, likewise, I would not be surprised that my thoughts probably don’t make sense to the Catholic in you.
At the very least, we all are surrendered to Christ and His judgement.
Peace.
But it’s hard, because the water sticks to the cup and brings with it doubt and insecurity. How can I join Catholicism like this?Good point. But we have it on Scripture that the Messiah will come.
What errors?
Since the doctrine of the Trinity was not pronounce till some 300 years later therefore it is an error?
And why should Tertullian’s view be the one to be believed as opposed to the rest of the Church, specifically the Church’s magisterium?
Have you heard of development of doctrine. If you go by this reasoning you do not believe in the Trinity either This can be classified as accretion as well.
Did he not?
Whatever renowned scholar you read was probably not as scholarly as you thought.
Good point!
Excellent point
and one I often make myself.Sad truth? Nay. Joyous truth. It reinforces the fact that Christ is with His Church and continues to guide her. If anything, this highlighted that the Church is indeed Christ’s church.
Do not worry. Trust in God. He has taken you this far in His desire for you to know His truth. He will never let you down.But be prepared, for He is sure to use you in His mission to draw people to Himself.Hail,
As a student, these were questions which often plagued my mind. As a student, we’re obliged to ask why. So I did. The answer played a major factor into bringing me into the CC. It has been a bit bothersome, at times, since I’m still somewhat influenced by Protestant teachings.
I worry that if my cup is full of bad water, would that water contaminate the good water? I’ve been mostly trying to throw away that bad water, so there is none of its foulness left.
It’s not good. Not good at all.
-MontChevalier
Yes, but Truth is independent of it. Truth is simply that - truth, whether your understanding is erroneous or not.
Personal perspective on anything is based on personal understanding.
No we don’t. We see beyond that if we so wish. If we pray for it, we will see with the eyes of God.
No that is not merely indoctrination. That is simply fact supported by Scripture and History. Protestants who converted to Catholic attest to this; that Scripture and History was their undoing.
Hardly since most of the people in this forum were far from indoctrinated but rather had to do much studying and research by themselves.
Yes. Yes. and another Yes.
Quite the contrary. History says yes. And this is what so many protestants found to their chagrin (and finally to their joy) - that the Church of the Early Christian is the Catholic Church.
Yes
Hey, that was quick. You came around to our thinking rather quickly
Again, top marks. Two thousand years. And guess when that 2000 years began
Or more to the point. Age is a proof that she is what she claims to be- the Church that Christ founded all those ages ago.
Quite wrong. Because the Christian does not claim to be Jewish. She claims to be Christian. So therefore her start has to start with Christ.
Very faintly in some so called “evangelical” churches, a little bit more lucidly in the Lutheran and some Anglican traditions and even more clearly in the Orthodox but fully and brightly in the Catholic Church.
And no one is stopping them. They can call themselves whatever they want but to claim they are the Church that Christ started would be an outright lie. Still, they can proclaim this lie as they please but that proclamation will not suddenly turn it into truth.
The 1054 event was not a reformation but a schism between the east and the west.
It seems you really do not know history since you keep saying. So better take my advice and start studying a.s…a.p
No. God will seek him/her out. But one must be pliant. One must truly listen to God instead of insisting on one’s own will.
The latter. Does not.
And no one ever said otherwise. But the whole point of Christ establishing a Church is not just so we can have access to the Father through Christ. Christ’s plan was much more grand and much more magnificent than that. That is why He established a Church.
No. Unless you call Christ’s action of establishing a Church as insignicant and a window dressing. Remember, never did Christ write a book. What He did was establish a Church. Think about that fact and mull over it.
Gratitude is not required. What is needed is for all Christians to return Home to the Church that Christ established on earth because this is Christ’s will.
Oh No. Very wrong understanding.
Well try us here on this forum. Your questions will make a lot of sense to us because we understand from what deficient understanding it arises from.
My brother what protestant teachings affect your thinking the most?Hail,
As a student, these were questions which often plagued my mind. As a student, we’re obliged to ask why. So I did. The answer played a major factor into bringing me into the CC. It has been a bit bothersome, at times, since I’m still somewhat influenced by Protestant teachings.
I worry that if my cup is full of bad water, would that water contaminate the good water? I’ve been mostly trying to throw away that bad water, so there is none of its foulness left.
It’s not good. Not good at all.
-MontChevalier
Sounds perfectly logical to me.
My only question then would be, how did you wind up in a Protestant denomination? What historical reading confirmed this thinking?I would have to say the one about Purgatory.
Jesus Christ and His Apostles and the Keys are handed to Peter. Thats how its been defined for 2000 years. Which fulfills the messianic prophecy of the OT. But you would know all this if you studied scripture?
This issue is contentious, certainly.
Let’s pursue this slowly, yet deliberately.
Let me ask you this: how do you define the origin of the Catholic Church?
Have you ever read the catholic teaching on it? Such as this.
Since you are the one who is contesting the point, then let me put this slowly and deliberately.
This issue is contentious, certainly.
Let’s pursue this slowly, yet deliberately.
Let me ask you this: how do you define the origin of the Catholic Church?
