Protestants, what do you think of these VERSES?

[justinthemartyr]

John 15:1-8

The Vine and the Branches
1"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
7If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. 8This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

 

[bengal_fan]

i believe it is saying that we must remain in Christ or we will be “cut off” from Him. that every good work comes out of being connected to Christ. the fruit isn’t what causes our connection, it’s the connection that causes the fruit. if we are not connected, we stop producing fruit, we get cut off.

 

[justinthemartyr]

If it is the connection that causes the fruit, then why are those who are connected being warned about not being fruitful, and warned that they may be cut off, and warned that they(Christians) can be picked up and thrown into the fire?

I agree that once we are in Christ, we are given good works to do, and we are supposed to be obedient, else we will be cut off from Christ and risk condemnation.

 

[bluestarsneyes]

I can see how you get there…whether that was truly what was being stated…meaning that if you are saved and you fail to do as many good works as some unknown measuring stick…means you can be cut off from salvation is a LONG debated subject.

I think the point is…how are you living?

We can debate something others have debated for years…but does it really matter right now?

I mean if you believe once saved always saved…then doing good works will do nothing but show others the devotion you have to God. If you are Catholic and believe you have to have good works to keep your salvation and you do good works…isn’t that going to get you the same result? You get to keep your salvation and therefore show others the devotion you have to God.

I mean I think debates like this make us MISS the point of being able to share our FAITH! Meaning the what are the ideas of how you live out your faith…how can the works of the Catholic Church inspire Protestants to a more devout following of the teachings of Christ…how can Catholics learn from Protestants how to better listen to those around them and show them love and not judgement.

Of course not all Protestants are without works and not all Catholics are without love but MANY of us can learn to do MUCH better!

 

[justinthemartyr]

I would say that since scripture explicitly teaches the possibility of the loss of salvation, then it is a pertinent point. Nothing in these passages has to do with going to heaven after being cut off from Christ through disobedience to Him, but being picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

It even says it is a warning to them(Christians).

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

because we are part of the vine, does not mean we are already perfect. We still have a sin nature and as such we can choose to walk in the flesh which leads to death or we can choose to walk in the Spirit which leads to life.

Galatians 5:16-25 (King James Version)

16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

2 Peter 1
1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

12Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

Romans 8

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

 

[justinthemartyr]

and so we agree that a Christian can lose their salvation if they choose to not remain in Christ the True Vine.

 

[AgnosTheist]

All this talk and no one had thought what the hell was the FRUIT???

WELL WHAT IS IT?

 

[Syele]

and so we agree that a Christian can lose their salvation if they choose to not remain in Christ the True Vine.

Probably half of all protestants believe that, me included.
the other half would cite the same result with a different means to get there…

All this talk and no one had thought what the hell was the FRUIT???

WELL WHAT IS IT?

Galatians 5
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Galatians 5
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control.

thanks. Now i’d like to hear the Catholic opinion on what the FRUIT is.