Protestants; What does Mary mean to you?

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PastorD said:
We cannot say Mary is the mother of Jesus and not mother of God, if we believe that Jesus is God. But again the title “Theotokos” is better than mother since it means bears or gives birth. To be a mother is to bear and give birth not generate.
When a child is born it is the result of a father’s seed being planted in the womb of the mother… therefore the child proceeds from (is begotten from) his/her father. The child is born through the mother. The incarnation is essential in understanding the mystery of the Trinity. Jesus, the incarnate Word of God, eternally begotten of the Father before all worlds is not created by Mary, but by the action of the Father, through the Holy Spirit, Mary conceives and bears the Word, which proceeds from the Father. That which is conceived in her is the person Jesus Christ and he is God. She bears him and gives birth to him, therefore is mother of God incarnate, Emmanuel.
To say she is only the mother of Jesus and not God is a low Christology. There are people who do not believe that Jesus is God. Therefore to say that she is mother of God is to say that Jesus is true God. This does not put Mary above God.
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I appreciate your point about “Christology” and the holy Trinity. Luther spoke of the blessed Virgin Mary as a “passive” figure in the Incarnation mystery.
Luther explains—Mary is named in the same breath with the third
person of the Trinity: Jesus was “conceived and born without sin, of the Holy Spirit and
the Virgin, that he might become Lord over sin.”ii
crossings.org/archive/bob…dtheSaints.pdf
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PastorD said:
We cannot say Mary is the mother of Jesus and not mother of God, if we believe that Jesus is God. But again the title “Theotokos” is better than mother since it means bears or gives birth. To be a mother is to bear and give birth not generate.
When a child is born it is the result of a father’s seed being planted in the womb of the mother… therefore the child proceeds from (is begotten from) his/her father. The child is born through the mother. The incarnation is essential in understanding the mystery of the Trinity. Jesus, the incarnate Word of God, eternally begotten of the Father before all worlds is not created by Mary, but by the action of the Father, through the Holy Spirit, Mary conceives and bears the Word, which proceeds from the Father. That which is conceived in her is the person Jesus Christ and he is God. She bears him and gives birth to him, therefore is mother of God incarnate, Emmanuel.
To say she is only the mother of Jesus and not God is a low Christology. There are people who do not believe that Jesus is God. Therefore to say that she is mother of God is to say that Jesus is true God. This does not put Mary above God.
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👍

Jon
 
dronald said:
This is where I agree strongly. I think Catholics on the outside can give devout Evangelicals the idea that the Catholics are worshiping her. Then when we hear “mother of God” without understanding the context it can be extremely scary.

It would be like if I called someone the “creator of God” without context. How would you interpret such a phrase? But then I later explain that I was referring to the womb that formed Jesus who is fully God, therefore “creator of God.”

I’m sorry, but it’s a title I don’t like and it’s not helping imo. I’m not worked up or upset about it, I just don’t like the confusion it brings.
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Just remember the entire reason “mother of God” came about was out if heresy saying Jesus was not God. This was a battle the early church faced. They soon realized calling Mary anything but “mother of God” weakened the argument for Jesus’ divinity. If a Jesus is fully God and he has a mother for his incarnation. It means Mary gave birth and mothered God.

All we need to do to explain to other religions is a simple clarification that Mary birthed God on earth, not God eternal.
 
PastorD said:
We cannot say Mary is the mother of Jesus and not mother of God, if we believe that Jesus is God. But again the title “Theotokos” is better than mother since it means bears or gives birth. To be a mother is to bear and give birth not generate.
When a child is born it is the result of a father’s seed being planted in the womb of the mother… therefore the child proceeds from (is begotten from) his/her father. The child is born through the mother. The incarnation is essential in understanding the mystery of the Trinity. Jesus, the incarnate Word of God, eternally begotten of the Father before all worlds is not created by Mary, but by the action of the Father, through the Holy Spirit, Mary conceives and bears the Word, which proceeds from the Father. That which is conceived in her is the person Jesus Christ and he is God. She bears him and gives birth to him, therefore is mother of God incarnate, Emmanuel.
To say she is only the mother of Jesus and not God is a low Christology. There are people who do not believe that Jesus is God. Therefore to say that she is mother of God is to say that Jesus is true God. This does not put Mary above God.
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I can’t imagine any Catholic disagreeing with this, thanks Pastor.
I have found the only group that objects to “Mother of God” are fundamentalists. It reveals thier simplistic theology.
 
Jon_S said:
Just remember the entire reason “mother of God” came about was out if heresy saying Jesus was not God. This was a battle the early church faced. They soon realized calling Mary anything but “mother of God” weakened the argument for Jesus’ divinity. If a Jesus is fully God and he has a mother for his incarnation. It means Mary gave birth and mothered God.

All we need to do to explain to other religions is a simple clarification that Mary birthed God on earth, not God eternal.
Click to expand...
👍
 
What does Mary mean to me (one who had practiced Protestantism for 30 years, now reconsidering the teaching of the RCC):

I have to admit, I am struggling with Mary. I have been indoctrinated for years that Catholics worship and pray to Mary, rather than Jesus Himself. I spent my first 18 years of life praying to Mary (but not understanding theology whatsoever). Now, at 50 years old, a former elder in a very conservative Presbyterian denomination, and I am feeling empty. Like I have been missing the total blessing God intends for his followers. I am seeing that my Protestant brothers & sisters, pastors, elders, and various Protestant denominations, are just as fallible as they claim the Roman Catholic Church to be. I sit hear typing this message tonight, and I have to ask why? I think it touches on the issue of Mary. I think it also touches on having lost a sense of connection to the historical church, to the mystical family of God, not only here presently on earth, but the presence of our departed saints standing before the very thrown of God, worshipping Him and interceding on our behalf! There is a lack of “awe” in my personal worship! I have feelings of loneliness and disconnectedness which I have grown callous to these past 30 years. I have clenched my fists, preventing me of looking intently and warmly to the blessings Mary was given. I would say now that it lead me toward irreverence toward her, which in turn is irreverence toward the Holy Trinity for shutting out my heart and mind the unique blessings they bestowed upon her. I realize now: how could that not affect my spiritual life!

I apologize if I am babbling. I want to answer this question as honestly and openly as I can. I am still not completely sure how we are to honor and revere Mary. I fear that potentially, some Catholics wrongly put her in a position that is co-equal to Christ. However, this thread and much of the good writings I have read on the subject of Mariology and the Catholic Church recently, testify to the contrary! My eyes and heart are open! I want God’s fullest blessing. I want to glorify Christ with my life, and if somehow that means to pray the rosary, or ask Mary to intercede on my behalf, or to follow her example of faithfulness and courage to live in faith to God’s calling for my life, then I want nothing less. Please pray that God will continue to show me the truth about Mary’s role in my life as I continue on this journey back home to my Catholic roots.
 
riavasile said:
What does Mary mean to me (one who had practiced Protestantism for 30 years, now reconsidering the teaching of the RCC):

I have to admit, I am struggling with Mary. I have been indoctrinated for years that Catholics worship and pray to Mary, rather than Jesus Himself. I spent my first 18 years of life praying to Mary (but not understanding theology whatsoever). Now, at 50 years old, a former elder in a very conservative Presbyterian denomination, and I am feeling empty. Like I have been missing the total blessing God intends for his followers. I am seeing that my Protestant brothers & sisters, pastors, elders, and various Protestant denominations, are just as fallible as they claim the Roman Catholic Church to be. I sit hear typing this message tonight, and I have to ask why? I think it touches on the issue of Mary. I think it also touches on having lost a sense of connection to the historical church, to the mystical family of God, not only here presently on earth, but the presence of our departed saints standing before the very thrown of God, worshipping Him and interceding on our behalf! There is a lack of “awe” in my personal worship! I have feelings of loneliness and disconnectedness which I have grown callous to these past 30 years. I have clenched my fists, preventing me of looking intently and warmly to the blessings Mary was given. I would say now that it lead me toward irreverence toward her, which in turn is irreverence toward the Holy Trinity for shutting out my heart and mind the unique blessings they bestowed upon her. I realize now: how could that not affect my spiritual life!

I apologize if I am babbling. I want to answer this question as honestly and openly as I can. I am still not completely sure how we are to honor and revere Mary. I fear that potentially, some Catholics wrongly put her in a position that is co-equal to Christ. However, this thread and much of the good writings I have read on the subject of Mariology and the Catholic Church recently, testify to the contrary! My eyes and heart are open! I want God’s fullest blessing. I want to glorify Christ with my life, and if somehow that means to pray the rosary, or ask Mary to intercede on my behalf, or to follow her example of faithfulness and courage to live in faith to God’s calling for my life, then I want nothing less. Please pray that God will continue to show me the truth about Mary’s role in my life as I continue on this journey back home to my Catholic roots.
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Thanks for sharing! I would encourage you to ask away here on your questions and check out a Catholics Come Home program at a parish near you. At the very least it could offer you a place to learn and meet other people on similar journeys.

God bless
 
riavasile said:
What does Mary mean to me (one who had practiced Protestantism for 30 years, now reconsidering the teaching of the RCC):

I have to admit, I am struggling with Mary. I have been indoctrinated for years that Catholics worship and pray to Mary, rather than Jesus Himself. I spent my first 18 years of life praying to Mary (but not understanding theology whatsoever). Now, at 50 years old, a former elder in a very conservative Presbyterian denomination, and I am feeling empty. Like I have been missing the total blessing God intends for his followers. I am seeing that my Protestant brothers & sisters, pastors, elders, and various Protestant denominations, are just as fallible as they claim the Roman Catholic Church to be. I sit hear typing this message tonight, and I have to ask why? I think it touches on the issue of Mary. I think it also touches on having lost a sense of connection to the historical church, to the mystical family of God, not only here presently on earth, but the presence of our departed saints standing before the very thrown of God, worshipping Him and interceding on our behalf! There is a lack of “awe” in my personal worship! I have feelings of loneliness and disconnectedness which I have grown callous to these past 30 years. I have clenched my fists, preventing me of looking intently and warmly to the blessings Mary was given. I would say now that it lead me toward irreverence toward her, which in turn is irreverence toward the Holy Trinity for shutting out my heart and mind the unique blessings they bestowed upon her. I realize now: how could that not affect my spiritual life!

I apologize if I am babbling. I want to answer this question as honestly and openly as I can. I am still not completely sure how we are to honor and revere Mary. I fear that potentially, some Catholics wrongly put her in a position that is co-equal to Christ. However, this thread and much of the good writings I have read on the subject of Mariology and the Catholic Church recently, testify to the contrary! My eyes and heart are open! I want God’s fullest blessing. I want to glorify Christ with my life, and if somehow that means to pray the rosary, or ask Mary to intercede on my behalf, or to follow her example of faithfulness and courage to live in faith to God’s calling for my life, then I want nothing less. Please pray that God will continue to show me the truth about Mary’s role in my life as I continue on this journey back home to my Catholic roots.
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Praying for you, friend!
 
riavasile said:
What does Mary mean to me (one who had practiced Protestantism for 30 years, now reconsidering the teaching of the RCC):

I have to admit, I am struggling with Mary. I have been indoctrinated for years that Catholics worship and pray to Mary, rather than Jesus Himself. I spent my first 18 years of life praying to Mary (but not understanding theology whatsoever). Now, at 50 years old, a former elder in a very conservative Presbyterian denomination, and I am feeling empty. Like I have been missing the total blessing God intends for his followers. I am seeing that my Protestant brothers & sisters, pastors, elders, and various Protestant denominations, are just as fallible as they claim the Roman Catholic Church to be. I sit hear typing this message tonight, and I have to ask why? I think it touches on the issue of Mary. I think it also touches on having lost a sense of connection to the historical church, to the mystical family of God, not only here presently on earth, but the presence of our departed saints standing before the very thrown of God, worshipping Him and interceding on our behalf! There is a lack of “awe” in my personal worship! I have feelings of loneliness and disconnectedness which I have grown callous to these past 30 years. I have clenched my fists, preventing me of looking intently and warmly to the blessings Mary was given. I would say now that it lead me toward irreverence toward her, which in turn is irreverence toward the Holy Trinity for shutting out my heart and mind the unique blessings they bestowed upon her. I realize now: how could that not affect my spiritual life!

I apologize if I am babbling. I want to answer this question as honestly and openly as I can. I am still not completely sure how we are to honor and revere Mary. I fear that potentially, some Catholics wrongly put her in a position that is co-equal to Christ. However, this thread and much of the good writings I have read on the subject of Mariology and the Catholic Church recently, testify to the contrary! My eyes and heart are open! I want God’s fullest blessing. I want to glorify Christ with my life, and if somehow that means to pray the rosary, or ask Mary to intercede on my behalf, or to follow her example of faithfulness and courage to live in faith to God’s calling for my life, then I want nothing less. Please pray that God will continue to show me the truth about Mary’s role in my life as I continue on this journey back home to my Catholic roots.
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👍 My prayers are with you. You should ask the Lords Mother to help you come closer to Him,. After all those years above, you should give yourself a break.

Jeremiah "Stand by the ways and see and ask for the ancient paths, Where the good way is, and walk in it; And you will find rest for your souls. But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’
 
riavasile said:
What does Mary mean to me (one who had practiced Protestantism for 30 years, now reconsidering the teaching of the RCC):

I have to admit, I am struggling with Mary. I have been indoctrinated for years that Catholics worship and pray to Mary, rather than Jesus Himself. I spent my first 18 years of life praying to Mary (but not understanding theology whatsoever). Now, at 50 years old, a former elder in a very conservative Presbyterian denomination, and I am feeling empty. Like I have been missing the total blessing God intends for his followers. I am seeing that my Protestant brothers & sisters, pastors, elders, and various Protestant denominations, are just as fallible as they claim the Roman Catholic Church to be. I sit hear typing this message tonight, and I have to ask why? I think it touches on the issue of Mary. I think it also touches on having lost a sense of connection to the historical church, to the mystical family of God, not only here presently on earth, but the presence of our departed saints standing before the very thrown of God, worshipping Him and interceding on our behalf! There is a lack of “awe” in my personal worship! I have feelings of loneliness and disconnectedness which I have grown callous to these past 30 years. I have clenched my fists, preventing me of looking intently and warmly to the blessings Mary was given. I would say now that it lead me toward irreverence toward her, which in turn is irreverence toward the Holy Trinity for shutting out my heart and mind the unique blessings they bestowed upon her. I realize now: how could that not affect my spiritual life!

I apologize if I am babbling. I want to answer this question as honestly and openly as I can. I am still not completely sure how we are to honor and revere Mary. I fear that potentially, some Catholics wrongly put her in a position that is co-equal to Christ. However, this thread and much of the good writings I have read on the subject of Mariology and the Catholic Church recently, testify to the contrary! My eyes and heart are open! I want God’s fullest blessing. I want to glorify Christ with my life, and if somehow that means to pray the rosary, or ask Mary to intercede on my behalf, or to follow her example of faithfulness and courage to live in faith to God’s calling for my life, then I want nothing less. Please pray that God will continue to show me the truth about Mary’s role in my life as I continue on this journey back home to my Catholic roots.
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Praying for you! :gopray: Remember when in doubt about all these things, take it to God and just talk to Him sincerely and ask Him to show you directly. For me, as you can tell if you read my opening post in this thread, Mary means a lot to me. I credit a lot of that to not hearing negative things about her, but reading from scripture. I don’t pray to her, but I do respect her and really think about what it means to say “yes” to God in those situations that are new or scary. She is an awesome model of faith and the way God can use us if we let Him.
 
aidanbradypop said:
Mary is accorded honor as the theotokos, literally the “God-bearer” or “one who gives birth to God”.
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Not meaning to nit-pick, but I think a qualifier should be added when you say that theotokos is literally “God-bearer”, because in English the word bearer doesn’t necessarily refer to birth.
 
Peter_J said:
Not meaning to nit-pick, but I think a qualifier should be added when you say that theotokos is literally “God-bearer”, because in English the word bearer doesn’t necessarily refer to birth.
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Ok to nit-pick. You get what I am saying though.
 
Kliska said:
Praying for you! :gopray: Remember when in doubt about all these things, take it to God and just talk to Him sincerely and ask Him to show you directly. For me, as you can tell if you read my opening post in this thread, Mary means a lot to me. I credit a lot of that to not hearing negative things about her, but reading from scripture. I don’t pray to her, but I do respect her and really think about what it means to say “yes” to God in those situations that are new or scary. She is an awesome model of faith and the way God can use us if we let Him.
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I like the anecdote told by Beverly Gaventa (recorded in Time):

She was further bemused when callers invited her to speak at their churches. “I would offer to do something on Mary,” she says, “and there would be this embarrassed pause, and they would eventually say, ‘Oh, we’re mostly Protestant around here.’
 
Peter_J said:
I like the anecdote told by Beverly Gaventa (recorded in Time):

She was further bemused when callers invited her to speak at their churches. “I would offer to do something on Mary,” she says, “and there would be this embarrassed pause, and they would eventually say, ‘Oh, we’re mostly Protestant around here.’
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Unfortunately, that’s about right. 😊
 
Sometimes When I pray, I always talk to Jesus, and I told him, My Lord I love you with all my heart, I want to serve you, Honor You, Worship you, You are the One and Only, I thank God the creator for you, Please if I’m offending you, Loving your Mother, If I’m offending you, going to her, asking her to be with me, and take me close to you, please Lord correct me.
 
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