Protestants what is a sin unto death?

[Odell]

In 1 Jn 5:16-17, it says, “If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin; I do not say that one should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.”

Im just interested in the protestant view of this verse I cant see anyway around this being mortal sin. but im sure you guys have an explanation to this not being two different levels of sin.

Thanks

 

[OneForTruth]

Ultimately, it is unbelief and utter blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. This will be evident through the behavior of the person after having come to a full knowledge of the truth and finally rejected it completely. Jesus said the following…

Matthew 12:43-45 KJV 43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

They end up worse off then what they were before even coming to a knowledge of the truth. But we are assured in that very context…

1 John 5:18-19 KJV 18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. 19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

This does not mean that we never sin as those who have passed from death to life…but that we will never commit this sin if we have indeed been born again…

3 John 1:11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

2 John 1:9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide (remain) in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

The hearer is instructed in Luke 8…

Luke 8:18 KJV 18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

God Show Us Your Truth…

 

[kaycee]

Or

“All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death.”

John adds this because even though God forgives sin, that does not mean sin is acceptable. The word unrighteousness literally means “lawlessness,” which is rebellion against God. Even though God forgives sin, it is still violating His law. Verse 17 ends by saying, “There is a sin not unto death.” Compare that with verse 16: “There is a sin unto death.” What kind of sin would bring death? There are two kinds of sin in the Bible:

1.Sins of passion

There is the sin that is against the will but occurs in a moment of weakness. It is associated with strong temptation, but not premeditated. It is not plotted out nor deliberately planned. It is illustrated in Romans 7, where Paul said, “The good that I would, I do not; but the evil which I would not, that I do” (v. 19). When someone commits that kind of sin, they are grieved, so they repent and turn from it.

1. Sins of premeditation

The second kind of sin is deliberate and premeditated. It is possible for Christians to commit that kind of sin. This is where you sit down and plan in detail. Every time you do it and get away with it, it gets easier and easier. You avoided the consequences once, maybe twice, even three or four times, and it becomes a pattern. This is the kind of sin that tends toward death. It is the prolonged and continued defiant, premeditated sinfulness that brings about ultimate discipline–physical death.

biblebb.com/files/MAC/sg2117.htm

 

[Curious]

I, too, always just assumed it was talking about blaspheming the Holy Spirit, which Jesus was said was unforgivable. (Luke 12:10).
It seemed to go along well with “sin unto death.”

I also liked Kaycee’s explanation. I think I heard a preacher talk a little on that subject before. She (Kaycee) explained it well.

 

[Odell]

So would you guys agree that not all sin is equal?
some will get us to Hell and some will not.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

If one is “splitting hairs” on sin, then they are only fooling themselves. Do we really think God is stupid and cant see us crossing our fingers behind our backs??

If ones fooling with where the edge of sin is, they will fall in.

 

[DRIVING_BEAR]

Short answer is the one sin Jesus Christ could not die for. The rejection of Christ Pardon abtained on the cross.

 

[VociMike]

I’m confused. I thought Protestants believed that all sin was deadly. Or do they believe that no sin is deadly except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?

 

[Church_Militant]

Or

“All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death.”

John adds this because even though God forgives sin, that does not mean sin is acceptable. The word unrighteousness literally means “lawlessness,” which is rebellion against God. Even though God forgives sin, it is still violating His law. Verse 17 ends by saying, “There is a sin not unto death.” Compare that with verse 16: “There is a sin unto death.” What kind of sin would bring death? There are two kinds of sin in the Bible:

MacArthur’s theology is strained here, and it is neither logical nor literal from the passage he is working.

1.Sins of passion

There is the sin that is against the will but occurs in a moment of weakness. It is associated with strong temptation, but not premeditated. It is not plotted out nor deliberately planned. It is illustrated in Romans 7, where Paul said, “The good that I would, I do not; but the evil which I would not, that I do” (v. 19).

When someone commits that kind of sin, they are grieved, so they repent and turn from it.The bolded statement is not at all evident from St. Paul’s writing. In fact, nowhere in that passage does Paul even intimate that he sins because of passions. To assert that this is the same thing is to force his interpretation onto the passage instead of letting the meaning stand as written.

1. Sins of premeditation

The second kind of sin is deliberate and premeditated. It is possible for Christians to commit that kind of sin. This is where you sit down and plan in detail. Every time you do it and get away with it, it gets easier and easier. You avoided the consequences once, maybe twice, even three or four times, and it becomes a pattern. This is the kind of sin that tends toward death. It is the prolonged and continued defiant, premeditated sinfulness that brings about ultimate discipline–physical death.

Here again he forces his own interpretation onto the passage. There’s nothing in 1st John 5:16-17 that supports his interpretation. Look at it.

16: If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that.
17: All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

There is nothing in this passage that supports his premise that it leads to physical death…moreover, there is only one instance in the New Testament where anyone commits a mortal sin and drops dead from it. (Acts 5), but there is nothing else to base this on. It is certainly not the common occurrence among believers of either Catholic or n-C churches. Therefore he’s grasping at straws.

Even as a protestant I’d’ve walked out on a teaching like this…

 

[Linkowski]

MacArthur’s theology is strained here, and it is neither logical nor literal from the passage he is working.The bolded statement is not at all evident from St. Paul’s writing. In fact, nowhere in that passage does Paul even intimate that he sins because of passions. To assert that this is the same thing is to force his interpretation onto the passage instead of letting the meaning stand as written.Here again he forces his own interpretation onto the passage. There’s nothing in 1st John 5:16-17 that supports his interpretation. Look at it.

16: If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that.
17: All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

There is nothing in this passage that supports his premise that it leads to physical death…moreover, there is only one instance in the New Testament where anyone commits a mortal sin and drops dead from it. (Acts 5), but there is nothing else to base this on. It is certainly not the common occurrence among believers of either Catholic or n-C churches. Therefore he’s grasping at straws.

Even as a protestant I’d’ve walked out on a teaching like this…

Those who have been born of God will not commit this sin - see my posting.

 

[Linkowski]

Ultimately, it is unbelief and utter blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. This will be evident through the behavior of the person after having come to a full knowledge of the truth and finally rejected it completely. Jesus said the following…

Matthew 12:43-45 KJV 43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

They end up worse off then what they were before even coming to a knowledge of the truth. But we are assured in that very context…

1 John 5:18-19 KJV 18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. 19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

This does not mean that we never sin as those who have passed from death to life…but that we will never commit this sin if we have indeed been born again…

3 John 1:11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

2 John 1:9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide (remain) in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

The hearer is instructed in Luke 8…

Luke 8:18 KJV 18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

God Show Us Your Truth…

 

[Odell]

Ultimately, it is unbelief and utter blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. This will be evident through the behavior of the person after having come to a full knowledge of the truth and finally rejected it completely. Jesus said the following…

Matthew 12:43-45 KJV 43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

They end up worse off then what they were before even coming to a knowledge of the truth. But we are assured in that very context…

1 John 5:18-19 KJV 18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. 19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

This does not mean that we never sin as those who have passed from death to life…but that we will never commit this sin if we have indeed been born again…

3 John 1:11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

2 John 1:9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide (remain) in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

The hearer is instructed in Luke 8…

Luke 8:18 KJV 18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

God Show Us Your Truth…

So do you admit there is mortal and venial sins?

the bible says if you SIN you do not no God. If you use this to prove we would never do mortal sins if you are saved I see a problem. Because none of these verses say if the sin is a mortal sin or not. it just says SIN and you do not know God.

You believe and correct me if im wrong that the only reason one goes to Hell is because they don’t have faith in Jesus “saving faith”.

This type of thinking would mean for those without faith, the wages of sin is not death, because they are dead already because they have no faith. The sin didn’t kill them, the unbelief did. And the people who have faith in Jesus there is no sin unto death because they are already saved. They would not sin unto death. So therefore people (you) dismiss this verse because it makes no since in a once saved always saved theology.

 

[Church_Militant]

Those who have been born of God will not commit this sin - see my posting.

That doesn’t wash…it’s still his interpretation forced onto the text.

 

[Spirithound]

This does not mean that we never sin as those who have passed from death to life…but that we will never commit this sin if we have indeed been born again…

This doesn’t sound very much like an assurance of salvation…does it? You’re saved…unless you’re not.

 

[Spirithound]

I, too, always just assumed it was talking about blaspheming the Holy Spirit, which Jesus was said was unforgivable. (Luke 12:10).
It seemed to go along well with “sin unto death.”

Short answer is the one sin Jesus Christ could not die for. The rejection of Christ Pardon abtained on the cross.

I’ve grouped these two posts together because one example of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is final impenitence/rejection of Christ’s pardon obtained on the cross.

The problem I have with this interpretation of 1John 5:16-17 is that this would require comparing two different time-periods in the believer’s life. The sin which is not unto death, which is being defined by our Protestant brothers and sisters as “every sin except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit”, can be committed at any time in a person’s life, however, the sin that is unto death, or final impenitence, can, by definition, only be committed upon one’s deathbed. This discrepancy in time period just doesn’t seem right.
This thought just occurred to me… “final impenitence” and “rejection of Christ’s pardon” can be a little bit different. If one “rejects Christ’s pardon”, it seems that that can be done at any time in a person’s life. However, if we are to take this definition, don’t John’s instructions to not pray for such a person go against our need to evangelize? And to include prayer in that evangelization?

 

[OneForTruth]

This doesn’t sound very much like an assurance of salvation…does it? You’re saved…unless you’re not.

Misunderstanding…all of you. Is it on purpose??

You will not accept anything but what you are taught - even if it is in direct contradiction with scripture. You make these doctrines of men more important than those clearly spelled out in scripture.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

Misunderstanding…all of you. Is it on purpose??

You will not accept anything but what you are taught - even if it is in direct contradiction with scripture. You make these doctrines of men more important than those clearly spelled out in scripture.

The contradictions that you speak of only comes with your understanding of scripture and how you where taught. That a look in the mirror before you give advice.

We are pointing the way to Truth. It’s being left to your “free will” to find it.

 

[guanophore]

Or

“All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death.”

John adds this because even though God forgives sin, that does not mean sin is acceptable. The word unrighteousness literally means “lawlessness,” which is rebellion against God. Even though God forgives sin, it is still violating His law. Verse 17 ends by saying, “There is a sin not unto death.” Compare that with verse 16: “There is a sin unto death.” What kind of sin would bring death? There are two kinds of sin in the Bible:

1.Sins of passion

There is the sin that is against the will but occurs in a moment of weakness. It is associated with strong temptation, but not premeditated. It is not plotted out nor deliberately planned. It is illustrated in Romans 7, where Paul said, “The good that I would, I do not; but the evil which I would not, that I do” (v. 19). When someone commits that kind of sin, they are grieved, so they repent and turn from it.

1. Sins of premeditation

The second kind of sin is deliberate and premeditated. It is possible for Christians to commit that kind of sin. This is where you sit down and plan in detail. Every time you do it and get away with it, it gets easier and easier. You avoided the consequences once, maybe twice, even three or four times, and it becomes a pattern. This is the kind of sin that tends toward death. It is the prolonged and continued defiant, premeditated sinfulness that brings about ultimate discipline–physical death.

biblebb.com/files/MAC/sg2117.htm

I am stil confused after reading this. Do you mean that a saved person can still commit sins of premeditation? When you say that “this kind of sin tends toward death” are you speaking of only physical death? Such a person will still be saved, right?

 

[guanophore]

So do you admit there is mortal and venial sins?

the bible says if you SIN you do not no God. If you use this to prove we would never do mortal sins if you are saved I see a problem. Because none of these verses say if the sin is a mortal sin or not. it just says SIN and you do not know God.

You believe and correct me if im wrong that the only reason one goes to Hell is because they don’t have faith in Jesus “saving faith”.

No, I think that Link believes that everyone who is predestined to heaven goes, and those predestined to damnation go to hell, and that sin of any kind cannot prevent a truly saved person from getting into heaven. I am sure he will correct me if I got the this wrong.

This type of thinking would mean for those without faith, the wages of sin is not death, because they are dead already because they have no faith. The sin didn’t kill them, the unbelief did. And the people who have faith in Jesus there is no sin unto death because they are already saved. They would not sin unto death. So therefore people (you) dismiss this verse because it makes no since in a once saved always saved theology.

The part it also leaves out is that death came into the world as a result of original sin, not personal sin. So the wages of sin being death applies to all, whether they have personal sin, or not (except our blessed mother, of course, who had neither).

 

[guanophore]

This doesn’t sound very much like an assurance of salvation…does it? You’re saved…unless you’re not.

You got it!

Misunderstanding…all of you. Is it on purpose??

Not on my part. I really just don’t get it!

You will not accept anything but what you are taught -

That depends upon the source of the teaching. Since you are not speaking from the authority to teach that Christ gave to His apostles, your position starts as suspect, and goes down hill from there.

even if it is in direct contradiction with scripture.

There are no teachings of the Church that contradict the scripture. the Church wrote the scripture, and alone has the divine authority to interpret it properly.

You make these doctrines of men more important than those clearly spelled out in scripture.

How does one define “doctrines of men”? If the doctrine contradicts your personal understanding of what it means, then it is not from God? Are you the arbiter of truth?