Protestants: What is the oddest thing about Catholicism?

[Syele]

i didn’t mean you

 

[Sepharad]

I realize this thread is directed to Protestants, but I wonder if I may ask one question that always puzzled me?

Earlier today, I had to meet with the wife of an American Baptist pastor I know, who is our licensed homeschool evaluator (in our state, homeschooled students need to be evaluated once a year to conform to state academic requirements).

Anyway, while in her home, I noticed a portrait of Jesus she had hanging in the living room. He looked rather rugged, and if I may say so, even handsome!

I have always noticed that Protestants tend to portray Jesus this way: rugged, handsome, very masculine, smiling, sometimes even with short hair (which is probably more historically accurate anyway).

In contrast, Catholic pictures of Jesus always seem to portray him as delicate, sorrowful and sometimes even a bit effeminate.

Is this intentional for doctrinal reasons, anyone know?

(BTW she and I had an interesting discussion after the evaluations, I’d told her about this message forum and I shared with her some feelings I had about Catholicism vs Protestantism, as an outsider looking in (because I’m Jewish.)

 

[Publisher]

I realize this thread is directed to Protestants, but I wonder if I may ask one question that always puzzled me?

Earlier today, I had to meet with the wife of an American Baptist pastor I know, who is our licensed homeschool evaluator (in our state, homeschooled students need to be evaluated once a year to conform to state academic requirements).

Anyway, while in her home, I noticed a portrait of Jesus she had hanging in the living room. He looked rather rugged, and if I may say so, even handsome!

I have always noticed that Protestants tend to portray Jesus this way: rugged, handsome, very masculine, smiling, sometimes even with short hair (which is probably more historically accurate anyway).

In contrast, Catholic pictures of Jesus always seem to portray him as delicate, sorrowful and sometimes even a bit effeminate.

Is this intentional for doctrinal reasons, anyone know?

(BTW she and I had an interesting discussion after the evaluations, I’d told her about this message forum and I shared with her some feelings I had about Catholicism vs Protestantism, as an outsider looking in (because I’m Jewish.)

If it’s the portrait I’m thinking of I believe it’s probalby “Hook’s Christ”, Francis Hook became a popular artist in the 70’s & 80’s. Most of his sketches show a very masculine and rugged Jesus of Nazareth. I don’t believe there are “theological” significances to it…most of the paintings popular among the Catholics that I have seen come from the Renaissance, which teneded to portray Jesus as frail…and by contast Mary as “larger than life” in some respects…perhaps that is a theological difference, the reverence of Mary?

 

[Sepharad]

If it’s the portrait I’m thinking of I believe it’s probalby “Hook’s Christ”, Francis Hook became a popular artist in the 70’s & 80’s. Most of his sketches show a very masculine and rugged Jesus of Nazareth. I don’t believe there are “theological” significances to it…most of the paintings popular among the Catholics that I have seen come from the Renaissance, which teneded to portray Jesus as frail…and by contast Mary as “larger than life” in some respects…perhaps that is a theological difference, the reverence of Mary?

You might have something there. And yes, I have noticed that Mary is often portrayed as larger than Jesus, but I never thought anything of it until you mentioned it!

I personally find the Protestant Jesus more appealing from an aesthetic point of view, though in reality, he probably did not look at all like either the C or P Jesus portrayals, but perhaps more like a swarthy, Middle Eastern Jew, with arba kanfot/tzitzit, peyot and a long, unshaven beard as well.

 

[mercygate]

I realize this thread is directed to Protestants, but I wonder if I may ask one question that always puzzled me?

Earlier today, I had to meet with the wife of an American Baptist pastor I know, who is our licensed homeschool evaluator (in our state, homeschooled students need to be evaluated once a year to conform to state academic requirements).

Anyway, while in her home, I noticed a portrait of Jesus she had hanging in the living room. He looked rather rugged, and if I may say so, even handsome!

I have always noticed that Protestants tend to portray Jesus this way: rugged, handsome, very masculine, smiling, sometimes even with short hair (which is probably more historically accurate anyway).

In contrast, Catholic pictures of Jesus always seem to portray him as delicate, sorrowful and sometimes even a bit effeminate.

Is this intentional for doctrinal reasons, anyone know?

(BTW she and I had an interesting discussion after the evaluations, I’d told her about this message forum and I shared with her some feelings I had about Catholicism vs Protestantism, as an outsider looking in (because I’m Jewish.)

I like your user name. If I wanted to, I might call myself “Romaniot” (hey! the food is great!)

Anyway, the phenomenon of havng “masculine” versus “sappy” Jesuses crosses denomnational lines. It IS true that a lot of pictures of Jesus are REALLY dopey. Mostly they are the 19th Century ones, when the popular “ideal” of gentlemanliness was rather “refned.” Check out Godey’s Ladies’ Book. It was against this gooey view of Jesus that “muscular Christianity” came in among some Protestant groups.

As for the hair, iconographically, long hair arrived in the 6th century with the discovery of a cloth, imprinted with the image of a long-haired man’s face, purported to be an image of Our Lord “not made with human hands”. It is uncertain whether this cloth was any of the relics known today: The Shround of Turin, the Mandylion, or Veronica’s Veil.

 

[Sepharad]

I like your user name. If I wanted to, I might call myself “Romaniot” (hey! the food is great!)

Anyway, the phenomenon of havng “masculine” versus “sappy” Jesuses crosses denomnational lines. It IS true that a lot of pictures of Jesus are REALLY dopey. Mostly they are the 19th Century ones, when the popular “ideal” of gentlemanliness was rather “refned.” Check out Godey’s Ladies’ Book. It was against this gooey view of Jesus that “muscular Christianity” came in among some Protestant groups.

As for the hair, iconographically, long hair arrived in the 6th century with the discovery of a cloth, imprinted with the image of a long-haired man’s face, purported to be an image of Our Lord “not made with human hands”. It is uncertain whether this cloth was any of the relics known today: The Shround of Turin, the Mandylion, or Veronica’s Veil.

The portrayal of Jesus with long hair derives, I believe, from a misunderstanding in the NT where it claims that the Jewish prophecies foretold that the Messiah would be from Nazareth.

They confused “Nazareth” with “nazarite”, which referred to a type of vow in Judaism in which a Jewish male did not cut his hair or drink anything from grapes.

I doubt Jesus could have had long hair anyway, because in the NT it says that a woman’s long hair is given to her for a covering, and that it is her “glory”. I doubt, therefore, than a man in those days would have long hair too, because it would make him appear feminine.

 

[mercygate]

The portrayal of Jesus with long hair derives, I believe, from a misunderstanding in the NT where it claims that the Jewish prophecies foretold that the Messiah would be from Nazareth.

They confused “Nazareth” with “nazarite”, which referred to a type of vow in Judaism in which a Jewish male did not cut his hair or drink anything from grapes.

I doubt Jesus could have had long hair anyway, because in the NT it says that a woman’s long hair is given to her for a covering, and that it is her “glory”. I doubt, therefore, than a man in those days would have long hair too, because it would make him appear feminine.

Exactly, iconography of Jesus prior to the mid-6th century usually showed him looking like a typical pagan Roman shepherd. Short hair, short skirt. Sheep over his shoulders. One image shows him in the guise of Apollo riding the chariot of the sun. The only way you can tell it’s a Christian image is by the distinctive halo.

 

[inJESUS]

Sorry, I take full blame… I was gone about a week and just picked up where I had left off.

no prob

I wasn’t referring to starting a new sect or whatever, I was talking about isses within

the Catholic Church.i guess they must be dealt with within the Church…can you imagine if anyone has an idea, he goes and open a church on his own? it’s a disaster…

 

[Syele]

no prob

hmm I have no desire to start a church of my own, so you can rest easy.

 

[Sepharad]

Exactly, iconography of Jesus prior to the mid-6th century usually showed him looking like a typical pagan Roman shepherd. Short hair, short skirt. Sheep over his shoulders. One image shows him in the guise of Apollo riding the chariot of the sun. The only way you can tell it’s a Christian image is by the distinctive halo.

Why did they portray him like a Greek or Roman when they knew he was a Jew?

That comment about halos reminds me of something else. I have seen halos around the head of pictures of Buddha…since Buddhism is much older than Catholicism, does that mean Catholicism got the idea for the use of halos to denote sanctity from Buddhism?

I notice also, that Buddhists use mala beads for counting prayers, very similar to the Catholic rosary. I’ve also noticed that Buddhists fold their hands together when they pray, as Catholics do too.

 

[mercygate]

Why did they portray him like a Greek or Roman when they knew he was a Jew?

First of all, the pagan Christian converts did not have the aversion to imagery that the Jews had, so Jewish images are virtually non-existent. The Romans used the iconography at hand. The existing images come mostly from the catacombs. Just being a Christian could get you an invitation to the Emperor’s house – as lunch for the lions. The images are very much embedded in the ambient culture: people eating a meal – of fish (a symbol of Christ) or bread and wine – for Christians, the Eucharist but everybody ate bread and drank wine. There is no widespread vernacular of Christian iconography until after the Edict of toleration.

That comment about halos reminds me of something else. I have seen halos around the head of pictures of Buddha…since Buddhism is much older than Catholicism, does that mean Catholicism got the idea for the use of halos to denote sanctity from Buddhism?

I doubt the use of halos came from Buddhism, except by way of assimilation from the eastern provinces. The pagan Romans used halos before the Christians adopted them.

I notice also, that Buddhists use mala beads for counting prayers, very similar to the Catholic rosary. I’ve also noticed that Buddhists fold their hands together when they pray, as Catholics do too.

So? Beads as “prayer counters” seem to be used in a lot of places. Islam has them also. For Catholics the custom started in the middle ages when people who could not read would recite 150 Hail, Marys as a “poor man’s Psalter.” Choir monks prayd the Psalms. Field hands prayed the Rosary.

Many who pray the Rosary today, do it in a deeply contemplative way, not as an exercise in brainless repetition. But it takes some getting used to.

 

[peacelight]

I notice also, that Buddhists use mala beads for counting prayers, very similar to the Catholic rosary. I’ve also noticed that Buddhists fold their hands together when they pray, as Catholics do too.

Peace be with you Sepharad, I have a link here if you want to know what is Rosary is and for

americancatholic.org/Features/Customs/rosary/gospel_rosary.asp
catholic.com/library/Rosary.asp Not sure whether you came across them before but anyway you are welcome to read what these site said about Rosary. God Bless.

 

[distracted]

I
I have always noticed that Protestants tend to portray Jesus this way: rugged, handsome, very masculine, smiling, sometimes even with short hair (which is probably more historically accurate anyway).

In contrast, Catholic pictures of Jesus always seem to portray him as delicate, sorrowful and sometimes even a bit effeminate.

I don’t know which images u saw, but i have always MUCH preferred the Catholic images of Jesus…

 

[Sepharad]

Peace be with you Sepharad, I have a link here if you want to know what is Rosary is and for

americancatholic.org/Features/Customs/rosary/gospel_rosary.asp
catholic.com/library/Rosary.asp Not sure whether you came across them before but anyway you are welcome to read what these site said about Rosary. God Bless.

Thanks, but I’m very familiar with the rosary. In fact I own one that had belonged to my maternal grandmother (my mother is a convert to Judaism.)

 

[inJESUS]

talking about long hair, how much long is long for men and how much long was women’s hair back then compared to men?

 

[Rawb]

Actually, the rosary started out as just a pocket full of stones. People would gather 150 pebbles and put them in a bag, and hold one while they said the Hail Mary, then toss it aside and pull out another one (The Our Fathers weren’t added until later, remember).

I wouldn’t be surprised it if was decided to string these stones together as inspiration from the Crusades and seeing the Muhammadeans’ prayer beads, but the idea was developed quite independantly of Eastern spirituality.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if someone one day just thought to string them together.

 

[peacelight]

Thanks, but I’m very familiar with the rosary. In fact I own one that had belonged to my maternal grandmother (my mother is a convert to Judaism.)

You are welcome. Though you are not Catholic do keep it ya, it may come in handy one day? God bless you.

 

[Sepharad]

You are welcome. Though you are not Catholic do keep it ya, it may come in handy one day? God bless you.

Well… not sure if I should say this because some Catholics on this forum have been touchy lately about things I’ve said…but I took the rosary apart and made a necklace out of it.

I did not want to give it away because it had been my grandmother’s, but neither did I feel comfortable keeping a nonJewish religious artifact around the house (its actually against Jewish Law to do that.) I didn’t know what to do, so I made a necklace out of it, and gave the crucifix part (it was sterling silver) to a neighbor who is Catholic.

Sorry!

 

[peacelight]

Well… not sure if I should say this because some Catholics on this forum have been touchy lately about things I’ve said…but I took the rosary apart and made a necklace out of it.

I did not want to give it away because it had been my grandmother’s, but neither did I feel comfortable keeping a nonJewish religious artifact around the house (its actually against Jewish Law to do that.) I didn’t know what to do, so I made a necklace out of it, and gave the crucifix part (it was sterling silver) to a neighbor who is Catholic.

Sorry!

That is okay, at least you did not throw it away you made necklace out of it and gave the crucifix to your Catholic neighbor. I understand you being Jewish and everything. Not sure about other Catholic how they felt about it but for me I look at your good intention, for you not throwing it away. Thank you for giving the crucifix part away to your Catholic neighbor. God bless.

 

[mercygate]

Well… not sure if I should say this because some Catholics on this forum have been touchy lately about things I’ve said…but I took the rosary apart and made a necklace out of it.

I did not want to give it away because it had been my grandmother’s, but neither did I feel comfortable keeping a nonJewish religious artifact around the house (its actually against Jewish Law to do that.) I didn’t know what to do, so I made a necklace out of it, and gave the crucifix part (it was sterling silver) to a neighbor who is Catholic.

Sorry!

I think that is rather tender. All things considered.