Protestants Whats wrong with this prayer? = Rosary

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Good topic. Shortest answer is we don’t pray to anyone except God.
 
ok. I was not aware of those verses re: Elijah and John (the Baptist)

I still don’t know why RC only calls certain people holy though. Is there a reason? (I’m just curious now)

I think I shall do a study of the word holy now. Hmm…
a Catholic site that prompts me to study the word… Maybe you are Christian afterall!!! 😛
 
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mellysue:
I still don’t know why RC only calls certain people holy though. Is there a reason? (I’m just curious now)
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Well I think that we have proven to that the RC doesn’t limit the word holy to those that have been canonized. In fact all are called to be holy. Every person in heaven is holy.
 
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mellysue:
I think I shall do a study of the word holy now. Hmm…
a Catholic site that prompts me to study the word… Maybe you are Christian afterall!!! 😛
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I was a staunch anti-Catholic evangelical protestant until I was forced to answer some bible verses that seemed awefully Catholic. I came to realize that Catholicism was thoroughly biblical. The writtings of the earliest Christians were also instrumental in my conversion, so not only was Catholicism biblical it was also historical.
 
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mellysue:
we do not believe in the intercessory prayer of saints on behalf of living or dead.
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Why do you ask others who are living to pray for you?

You know prayer groups?

The definition of intercede is to pray for someone, so us Catholics believe that the Saints in Heaven can pray for us, this is from revelations by the way.
 
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MonicaC:
Well I think that we have proven to that the RC doesn’t limit the word holy to those that have been canonized. In fact all are called to be holy. Every person in heaven is holy.
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And not only are those that are canonized considered saints :). We are all saints, no? Us catholics are also baptised as prophet, priest and king. Though I am not worthy, I am considered as such.
 
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imroc:
And not only are those that are canonized considered saints :). We are all saints, no? Us catholics are also baptised as prophet, priest and king. Though I am not worthy, I am considered as such.
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well at least we are asked to be but it is ultamitly up to us to chose that path. And I for one keep failing.:o But I wont stop trying.
 
Scripture commands us to “pray for each other”

the Book of Revelation has the martyrs asking when they will be avenged and the Lamb answers that their “numbers are not yet complete.” This illustrates that there are souls in heaven, that they have access to Jesus and that they are provided information about those believers still upon earth.

As to only God being Holy. We are all called to be holy and many, as others have pointed out, are called holy. In the Book of Revelation we have the celebration that is mirrored in the Mass. We sing, as is done in heaven the Holy, Holy, Holy. In hebrew they do not have conjugation for Holy, Holier and Holiest. They repeat the word to mean the same. God is Holiest (Holy, Holy, Holy) and we are called to be holy. Mary is never addressed as “Holy, Holy, Holy Mary”

Mary is the Mother of God in that Jesus was (is and ever shall be) fully human and fully divine. That is why Mary is called the Mother of God and the God Bearer. She is the Arc of the New Covenant. The Old Arc was not to be touched or else death insued. The Old Arc was holy, and created to perfection, undefiled. Mary, the Arc of the New Covenant is no less so. My $0.02, God Bless 🙂
 
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Superstar905:
Well, I’m Catholic, and I can tell you, that part of their problem is the invoking of Marys intercession in “Holy Mary Mother of God, Pray for us sinners, now…”

They would reply, that she is dead, and she cannot hear our prayers…or better yet, we are talking to spirits, which the bible “plainly” tells us is wrong, etc…
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I don’t consider myself a fundamentalist. I am protestant who was raised catholic however.

There are two things I don’t like about the rosaries. The first is growing up I couldn’t figure out why people kept repeating the same thing over and over again, and it felt like mindless repetition.

I do sometimes repeat things over and over, like passages over scripture, but that to commit them to memory.

As for Mary, yes, that it is the other major problem. I don’t know if she can hear us or not. It’s possible that she can, but my concern is that she has been risen above her humanity. I don’t know that I get upset at people who talk to their dead relatives because they miss them, but I am simply uncomfortable at the prominent place that Marie has received in the church. It’s one thing to admire someone who has faithfully served the Lord. However, I feel like Marian devotion has exceeded that.

Growing up, I distinctly remember people getting on their knees and praying the rosaries in front of a statue of Mary. Catholics insist that they are not engaging in idolatry. I will let God be the judge, but I would prefer to avoid the appearance of sin.

Also, it doesn’t seem like this has been a part of jewish tradition. Jews don’t ask Moses to intercede for them. Thus, it seems to me that we who are in Christ have eben more reason to come boldly to His throne in prayer without going through a third party.

Kendy
 
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flameburns623:
She can’t hear the request. She is dead–either in Hell or in Heaven. If she is in Hell she is neither inclined to pray for anyone on earth nor would her prayers be efficacious. If she is in Heaven she is beyond any knowledge of what is happening on Earth, indeed such an awareness would mar her beatific vision of God, to Whom alone she should be giving praise and glory.

Not trying to be rude but the question was asked.
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I was with you until this part. I think it is fair to assume beyond a shadow of a doubt that the woman who carried Jesus Christ is not in Hell. I am offended by that statement by that statement, and I AM PROTESTANT! While I disagree with the way the actholics treats her, I think it’s fair to say that she is a woman of deep faith and moral rectitude and is entitled to our respect.

Now, what is she doing in Heaven? Can she hear us? I can’t think of any passage of scripture that would help us know exactly what she is beyond the fact that she is worshiping God.

Kendy
 
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YADA:
The Old Arc was not to be touched or else death insued. The Old Arc was holy, and created to perfection, undefiled. Mary, the Arc of the New Covenant is no less so. My $0.02, God Bless 🙂
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Just wondering if you can cite the scriptural reference for this.

Kendy
 
What the fuss is all about? I don’t find anything wrong with the Rosary Prayer, eventhough I don’t do it, because I am a Protestant.
But if you force me to start adopting Rosary Prayer or insist it as the only ultimate truth for praying, then I will state my case.
I dislike to make judgement on this, because once again, it’s the matter of FAITH.
 
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flameburns623:
She is not God’s mother. God has neither mother nor father. She is properly called ‘theotokos’, or ‘bearer of God’ insofar as Christ was both True God and True Man. But Mary was not the originator or source of Christ’s divinity, merely the bearer of it.
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Well, either you are a nestorian or you contradict Luke chapter 1 because Elizabeth, full of the Holy Spirit, said how is it that the mother of my Lord has come to me. To say that she is simply the bearer of God is to say that there are two persons of Christ or it is to simply contradict the above passage. Either way it is heresy.
 
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Kendy:
Just wondering if you can cite the scriptural reference for this.

Kendy
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Elizabeth quotes King David from I think 1Samuel7. She says, how is it that the mother of my lord has come to me. David says, how is it that the ark has come to me. In Revelation it shows great honor being given to the ark, you think it is a box that is meant? No, it is the ark of the true covenant(Christ), which is Mary. The Ark of the old covenant carried the decalogue, Mary carried The Logos. If you do a search for St. Athanasius and the ark of the covenant you will find that he professed this same faith.
 
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flameburns623:
If she is in Heaven she is beyond any knowledge of what is happening on Earth, indeed such an awareness would mar her beatific vision of God, to Whom alone she should be giving praise and glory.

Not trying to be rude but the question was asked.
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What about the angels? Gabriel goes to Mary and Elizabeth in Luke 1, why is he not focused wholely on worshiping God? It seems that your theory is quite contradictory. Scripture shows angels helping humanity. It also seems that you believe that the body of Christ(the Church) is only on earth. That is contradictory to scripture. Scripture speaks of a heavenly marriage feast, which is between Christ and His Church. A person who dies does not cease to be a member of the Church but becomes even more a member of the Church. So they would be able to pray for us. Consider that Paul told members of the Church to pray for eachother, since those are in heaven are greater members of the Church their job of prayer for the rest of the Church is even greater than ours.

Further, God desires for all of His people to love eachother. If we truely love eachother we will desire to help the rest of the Church. Do you honestly think that God is going to deny His holy people(it has been shown above that people are called holy in scripture) the ability to help the souls on earth?

All of Christian history believes in prayer to those who have died. Why don’t you? I was reading Ignatius of Antioch a couple of days ago and I was amazed to see the communion of saints(refering to both those on earth and in heaven) in his letters. I think it might have been in the letter to the Romans but I will have to check that and get back. He was talking about going to his death. He mentioned that he will be able to intercede for the rest of the Church more easily in heaven.

So again I ask, why don’t you pray to Mary and the saints?
 
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mellysue:
As you can see by my signature I am protestant. I have no problem with the Our Father Prayer or the Glory to God, or even the prayer of Fatima.
I do not have issue with most of the Hail Mary.

“Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.”
This is straight from the Bible - no protestant should have any problems with this part

“Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.”

The Holy part is what trips us up. We do not refer to anyone as holy except God. God alone is holy. Also, we do not believe in the intercessory prayer of saints on behalf of living or dead.
We could spend hours debating why, but there are many threads devoted to that. I do not think Catholics worship Mary like Christ. But I do disagree with having Mary pray on your behalf as an intercessory.
The last line is the only thing a protestant would have issue with.

Now, aren’t there several parts to the Hail Mary. I thought it was longer than this. I thought there was a section that started “Hail Holy Queen enthroned above”.
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the Church is the body of Christ, so if you’re alive and a member and then die , do you cease to be a member of the body of Christ. I say no you do not.
Aren’t we all called to live a holy life?
There are many holy people on earth.

And as a protestant if you’re having a bad day do you call your pastor to pray for you, that’s intercessory prayer also just like us Catholics having Mary or the Saints, who are still members of the body of Christ pray for us. Hope that helps some
 
This is what I dislike. But ok, I am in now.

You said:
So again I ask, why don’t you pray to Mary and the saints?

Objections:
  1. Tell me, why do you think it doesn’t contradict the First Commandment? Praying to other than God is consider worshipping others, in my opinion.
  2. Jesus never told us to pray in the name of anyone but HIM. You can show me otherwise, if you can, in our bible.
  3. I read somehow in the bible that the dead is not related to the living anymore.
  4. While I respect Mary for her important role and her piousness (but once again, not sinlessness), but you forget that the whole scenario is for JESUS to save mankind.
So, my decision is to pray with the prayer taught by Jesus, and in HIS name only. Tell me why it is wrong according to Bible. And I ask you, do you think not praying to Mary and the Saints will make your prayer unheard or unanswered by God?

Ok, that’s my opinion.
 
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Neverland:
This is what I dislike. But ok, I am in now.

You said:
So again I ask, why don’t you pray to Mary and the saints?

Objections:
  1. Tell me, why do you think it doesn’t contradict the First Commandment? Praying to other than God is consider worshipping others, in my opinion.
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Then you worshiped your mother every time you ask her for something because to pray(precor in Latin) means to beg or to ask. To simply call prayer worship that is only due to God is to degrade the true worship which God deserves. Plus, as you said it is your opinion.
  1. Jesus never told us to pray in the name of anyone but HIM. You can show me otherwise, if you can, in our bible.
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So, Jesus never told you to read a book called the bible. So, I better not hear of you reading a bible. What do you mean in our bible? Do you mean the protestant bible? Excuse me but I could cut out every book of the bible except Malachi, call that my bible and say, “find that in my bible.” You would find very little.
  1. I read somehow in the bible that the dead is not related to the living anymore.
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Please show me the passage and then we will talk about it.
  1. While I respect Mary for her important role and her piousness (but once again, not sinlessness), but you forget that the whole scenario is for JESUS to save mankind.
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I don’t forget anything, I just remember the whole teaching of Christ and His Church. Jesus has saved mankind, that doesn’t affect prayer to Mary or the saints.
So, my decision is to pray with the prayer taught by Jesus, and in HIS name only. Tell me why it is wrong according to Bible. And I ask you, do you think not praying to Mary and the Saints will make your prayer unheard or unanswered by God?
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My intent was not to say that it was wrong to pray to only Christ. My intent was against those who are anti-prayer to saints. In otherwords I was speaking to those who think prayer to the saints is idolatry or wrong in some way.
 
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