Protestants - When did the Catholic Church Begin?

[Mannyfit75]

Please don’t be offended, but it seems you have a a small view of Jesus.

Hardly, I received Jesus’ Body and Blood every Sunday. That gets personally. I boast on Jesus Christ. It is sad that most Protestant lack this Great Gift from God! Manna from Heaven. The Bread of Life.

I am offended when you tell people here that the Catholic Church is not the Church founded on Jesus Christ.

Scripture regards him as head of the church, but he is not only head of the church.

He is the ruler of all things, visible and invisible.

Of course I agree. I trust Jesus Christ and His Church!

 

[ahem]

Jesus did exist. He was in the beginning, but he did not begotten a flesh. You seriously need to stop separating the Church and Jesus Christ. Are you the Divorce lawyer of Jesus Christ?

Jesus preexisted the church. The church was not in the beginning. He was. Only he is the first and the last. He is head of the church, but he is ruler of more than the church.

Unless you believe that flora and fauna, constellations and galaxies are in the same category as humans. That is not the case. The church is comprised of humans, Jew and Gentile, slave and free, male and female, but no dogs, no gazelles, no planets…

 

[Mannyfit75]

I think the catholic church is very much larger than your particular communion, but I also believe that your communion is part of it.

Am I a liar too?

It is. Indirectly, you are member of My Church because of your baptism that if you are Baptised in In the Name of the Father, And of the Son, and Of the Holy Spirit.

 

[CentralFLJames]

And Manny may actually believe that there are 30,000 Protestant denominations but I seriously doubt he’s counted them.

It’s a convenient number, it moves around too; I have also heard that there are 60,000.

I often wonder what the criteria are, what, according to his understanding, constitutes a “Protestant Denomination”.

The doubling to 60,000 only works out only if one counts Protestant ministers wives as co-redemptresses and assume most Protestant men are as hen-pecked (or worse) as they are popularily made out to be .

James

 

[Steadfast]

Maybe we should define our terms:

When I say “catholic” I mean the church always and everywhere which confesses the trinitarian faith. I mean the one, true church which is not limited to those churches and rites in communion with the bishop of Rome but which certainly includes them.

What do you mean when you say “catholic” Manny?

Am I right in assuming that you mean only that church which claims the earthly headship of the Bishop of Rome?

If I believe that this church is surely part of the Body of Christ and therefore of the church catholic in the fullest sense but is not limited to it, am I a liar?

Or am I, in your opinion, just in error?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Jesus preexisted the church. The church was not in the beginning. He was. Only he is the first and the last. He is head of the church, but he is ruler of more than the church.

I am not disagreeing with you on this statement. I do acknowledge that he build His Church upon Peter.

Unless you believe that flora and fauna, constellations and galaxies are in the same category as humans. That is not the case. The church is comprised of humans, Jew and Gentile, slave and free, male and female, but no dogs, no gazelles, no planets…

The Church is made of believers of Jesus Christ, both Jews and Gentile. The Catholics have a more perfect union. While NCC do not even though they are members of the Church.

 

[Steadfast]

The doubling to 60,000 only works out only if one counts Protestant ministers wives as co-redemptresses and assume most Protestant men are as hen-pecked (or worse) as they are popularily made out to be .

James

Finally! Someone with a sense of humor.

Good one, James.

 

[Steadfast]

It is. Indirectly, you are member of My Church because of your baptism that if you are Baptised in In the Name of the Father, And of the Son, and Of the Holy Spirit.

I was baptized in your church, so I fall into that category, but I no longer believe all that I was taught there.

Am I still subject to the Roman Pontiff, whether I want to be or not?

If you say yes, then I guess I understand how you could be confused about the nature of willfull denial of a known truth and might find refuge in ideas about nonexistent things like “indirect lies”.

You weren’t educated by Jesuits by any chance, were you?

 

[ahem]

I am not disagreeing with you on this statement. I do acknowledge that he build His Church upon Peter.

My point is that the church is not the same thing as the Kingdom of God, but rather an expression of it. The king has always been, but the church has not.

The Church is made of believers of Jesus Christ, both Jews and Gentile. The Catholics have a more perfect union. While NCC do not even though they are members of the Church.

Many Catholics believe that, many Orthodox do too, as well as many Protestants and other expressions of the church.

God bless you, too.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Maybe we should define our terms:

When I say “catholic” I mean the church always and everywhere which confesses the trinitarian faith. I mean the one, true church which is not limited to those churches and rites in communion with the bishop of Rome but which certainly includes them.

Catholic means universal. It it is Church is for the whole world so they may received the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The good news of salvation to men.

What do you mean when you say “catholic” Manny?

Am I right in assuming that you mean only that church which claims the earthly headship of the Bishop of Rome?

The Catholic Church’s visible head is the Pope. The invisible head is Jesus Christ. These those who are also member of this Church who are not in full communion but hence they have been baptized in the trinitarian formula, they also are members of this Church. Without knowing it, they are under the jurisdiction of the Pope.

If I believe that this church is surely part of the Body of Christ and therefore of the church catholic in the fullest sense but is not limited to it, am I a liar?

Or am I, in your opinion, just in error?

Like I said before Protestant union with the Church is imperfect. It can only be made perfect if they become Catholic Church in full communion with the Pope in Rome.

 

[CentralFLJames]

I think there are five Protestant denominations:

1. Lutheran
2. Anglican
3. Reformed
4. Baptist
5. Other

I would say that they agree fundamentally on at least three of the Refomration Sola’s (at least broadly understood) and are distinctly Trinitarian in theology. Their differences are often profound but are probably about concurrent with competing intra-mural positions within Catholicism on certain theological loci.

The “other” category is huge and includes all the tax-free mom-n-pop roll yer own protestant sects who do it as a business venture for a living.

At any rate the differences are certainly gross and profound enough where none of these have the fine finesse to be able to extract the plank out of their own eye much less pick the specs out of their neighbor’s eye without blinding both patient and doctor alike worse than they already are.

James

 

[Mannyfit75]

I was baptized in your church, so I fall into that category, but I no longer believe all that I was taught there.

Am I still subject to the Roman Pontiff, whether I want to be or not?

You are not credible as those Christians in full communion with the Pope. Your accountibility is not as grave. You are expected to live out your baptisal promises to the Lord. Of course you know what they are right?

If you say yes, then I guess I understand how you could be confused about the nature of willfull denial of a known truth and might find refuge in ideas about nonexistent things like “indirect lies”.

You weren’t educated by Jesuits by any chance, were you?

I taught myself by reading the Bible, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Conpendium of the Catholic Church, Catechism of US Bishop CD, ECF writings, Fr. Corapi. etc.

 

[Steadfast]

The “other” category is huge and includes all the tax-free mom-n-pop roll yer own protestant sects who do it as a business venture for a living.

Actually, most of those can probably be ranked under “baptist”.



“Other” would mean enthusiastic or pietistic churches from a definitely “Free Church” background. At least that’s how I am using it.

At any rate the differences are certainly gross and profound enough where none of these have the fine finesse to be able to extract the plank out of their own eye much less pick the specs out of their neighbor’s eye without blinding both patient and doctor alike worse than they already are.

Well, for sure, Protestants are every bit as adept at shooting their wounded and eating their own as their Catholic friends and neighbors.

 

[Mannyfit75]

My point is that the church is not the same thing as the Kingdom of God, but rather an expression of it. The king has always been, but the church has not.

The Church is the Kingdom on Earth. Like the Church in heaven, we have Jesus Real Presence in the Blessed Sacrament. The same Jesus who rise from the dead 2,000 yrs ago. This is the closest you can get to heaven.

Every Catholic who goes to Mass received the Body and Blood of the Lord weekly and some daily. It is also taken with good care that no Catholic should approach the Blessed Sacrament in the state of mortal sin.

The Church in my POV is the Heaven on earth because of the Real Presence of Jesus Christ. At the Mass, the sacrifice on the cross is made present before us. This transcends time and space.

Many Catholics believe that, many Orthodox do too, as well as many Protestants and other expressions of the church.

God bless you, too.

Well, we have some agreement. This is a good start.

 

[Steadfast]

You are not credible as those Christians in full communion with the Pope. Your accountibility is not as grave. You are expected to live out your baptisal promises to the Lord. Of course you know what they are right?

I believe so, but oaths given in ignorance are not binding by any standard.

A whole cottage industry of Catholic Marriage Annulments is based on this premise.

I taught myself by reading the Bible, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Conpendium of the Catholic Church, Catechism of US Bishop CD, ECF writings, Fr. Corapi. etc.

I have the first two at home and the last two (since I enjoy watching Fr. Corapi though I like Fr. Groeschel better).

I was educated by Jesuits, I was a candidate for their novitiate in fact (so those of you who have some familiarity with them probably aren’t surprised that my faith in your church was destroyed pretty completely).

 

[ahem]

The Church is the Kingdom on Earth. Like the Church in heaven, we have Jesus Real Presence in the Blessed Sacrament. The same Jesus who rise from the dead 2,000 yrs ago. This is the closest you can get to heaven.

Every Catholic who goes to Mass received the Body and Blood of the Lord weekly and some daily. It is also taken with good care that no Catholic should approach the Blessed Sacrament in the state of mortal sin.

The Church in my POV is the Heaven on earth because of the Real Presence of Jesus Christ. At the Mass, the sacrifice on the cross is made present before us. This transcends time and space.

Well, we have some agreement. This is a good start.

So the church includes the galaxies, the animals, and plant kingdom, in your view? How are they baptized?

 

[Mannyfit75]

I believe so, but oaths given in ignorance are not binding by any standard.

A whole cottage industry of Catholic Marriage Annulments is based on this premise.

What is that suppose to mean?

I have the first two at home and the last two (since I enjoy watching Fr. Corapi though I like Fr. Groeschel better).

I was educated by Jesuits, I was a candidate for their novitiate in fact (so those of you who have some familiarity with them probably aren’t surprised that my faith in your church was destroyed pretty completely).

Really how sad. You shouldn’t have give up on it. It’s sad that you did.

 

[NotWorthy]

There is a standing misconception regarding this passage among Roman Catholics. The name “Peter” and the “rock” on which the church is to be founded are not the same. One is masculine while the other is feminine. In Greek it is necessary for the two terms to agree in gender and number. It is thus not upon Peter which the church is to be founded but rather upon his confession that
“You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”The Holy Bible : New Revised Standard Version. 1989 (Mt 16:16). Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

Please update your Greek grammar to the Koine variety.

Even among the staunchest Protestant apologist, this argument has been given up.

 

[ahem]

Well, we have some agreement. This is a good start.

I posted it a couple of times over the past 24 hours.

 

[Mannyfit75]

So the church includes the galaxies, the animals, and plant kingdom, in your view? How are they baptized?

No. The Church include the community of believers. Those who have been baptized in Christ are members of the Church.

I don’t even want to know where you start coming up with galaxies, animals, and plants. Heaven is for mankind, not material things or animals or plants.

Animals may have souls that give them life, but their soul cease to exist once the animal died. Only the soul of the human being is immortal.