Protestants - When did the Catholic Church Begin?

[Mannyfit75]

Whoa! Whao! Hold on there Bamm. People certainly have to be Christian to go to heaven. Where did you get that crazy idea from?

That is another topic to be discussed not here.

Please don’t say it’s from the Catholic Catechism, because if you cite that as a source you already negate your whole argument by citing a source that, according to your argument, isn’t necessarily authoritative.

First of all its the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

 

[Contarini]

Everybody makes that claim. It may never be resolved, because there are so many “true” churches.

That’s a cop-out. There are only four churches with a remotely reasonable claim to apostolic continuity:

1. The “Roman” Catholic Church–i.e., those churches in communion with Rome (yes, I know this includes some relatively small groups not part of the Roman Catholic Church strictly speaking).
2. The “Eastern Orthodox” Church–i.e., those churches in communion with Constantinople, or to put it otherwise those Eastern Churches not in communion with Rome which accept the Council of Chalcedon.
3. The “monophysite” or “Oriental Orthodox” Churches–Coptic, Armenian, “Jacobite,” etc.
4. The “Church of the East” or “Nestorian” Church.

In my opinion only the first two are at all likely to be correct, but if you want to push the point I’ll grant that all four could make some sort of claim.

That is why I proclaim the kingdom of God. That’s the foundation of the church, and that which has always existed.

That’s easy, because you can make this slogan mean whatever you like, and it can never hold you accountable.

Edwin

 

[Mannyfit75]

Actually, no offense Manny, but they didn’t capitalize the word “Catholic.” Some editor or translator did that to make you think what you do. The fact is that both of those church fathers wrote in Greek, and ancient Greek had no large or small caps, or spaces. LETMEEMPHASIZETHAT. ANCIENTGREEKHADNOLARGEORSMALLCAPSORSPACESOREVENPUNCTUATION. With that being the case - isn’t better to take their words at face value?

History shows that the Early Church is Catholic Church. There were five Patriarchiates.

1. Jerusalem.
2. Antioch.
3. Rome.
4. Alexandria.
5. Constantinople.

All five are belong to the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. All Five are founded upon the Apostles. The First Pope is St. Peter who was succeeded by Linus. The current Pope is Pope Benedict XVI. Click here to see the list of the Popes.

The Catholic Church has its foundation in Christ, and Jesus build it upon St. Peter based on Matthew 16:18. The Church official birth was on the cross when the Roman Soldier pierced the side of Christ where Blood and Water came out. The Blood redeemed us, and the water symbolizes Christian baptism, which we are saved. The date of the Catholic Church birth would on the day Jesus died on the cross.

This is historical facts. It is not some new doctrine that we made up. We have held this belief for over 2,000 yrs. You cannot trace the Catholic Church to the time of Constantinople because the Church was already established. The Christian Church has always been universal. That is why it is called Catholic!

 

[Grace_Seeker]

As George Orwell once wrote: “He who controls the present controls the past. He who contrls the past controls the future.”

Never have I seen this prove out more true than in the Catholic Church. It seems as if it no longer matters what actually took place in the first couple of centuries of the Christian Church. It only matters what the Catholic Church says took place.

I tell you that I am not a Catholic, but I am as catholic as any one else here. There is no belief of the first century catholic Church that I do not hold to and I am as much a part of that Church today as Peter and Paul were themselves. That the Catholic Church won’t recognize that just proves to me that there is a difference between being Catholic and catholic. And that is why I say that the Catholic Church of today is not the catholic Church of the first century.

 

[Mannyfit75]

That’s a cop-out. There are only four churches with a remotely reasonable claim to apostolic continuity:

1. The “Roman” Catholic Church–i.e., those churches in communion with Rome (yes, I know this includes some relatively small groups not part of the Roman Catholic Church strictly speaking).
   Edwin

No. Roman is a Rite. Look it up at Wikipedia. There are 23 Rites in the Catholic Church. 22 of which are Eastern Catholic (who are not consider Roman) and # 23 is Roman Rite which makes up the majority and** please stop calling the Catholic Church as Roman Catholic Church.** I am deeply offended by Non-Catholic Christians who keep calling us Roman Catholics

 

[inkaneer]

I believe Church Militant may have been referring to Romans 1:8. In greek the latter half of the verse is "kataggelletai en holo to kosmo " The kata & holo part eventually became Catholic.

Better yet check out Acts 9:31 where it says, “So the church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Sama’ria …” In Greek the words ‘Church throughout all’ is ecclesia kata holos’ or Catholic Church. But protestants, the ones who claim the Catholic Church is a later concoction generally point to Constantine and his Edict of Milan in 313 AD which they falsely claim made the Catholic Church the official religion of the Roman Empire. Totally untrue but it plays well in the anti Catholic world that is present day protestantism. The Edict of Milan ended the persecution of the church and Christianity was recognized as a valid religion in the empire. One of many valid religions. Constantine was not being a nice guy when he did this. He was desparate. He needed political power and he and Licentius both agreed to the Edict in order to appeal to the christians and encorporate the christian population which despite the prior persecutions was significant. Constantine was successful in uniting the epire under his control and after doing this He abandoned Rome for Byzantium which he renamed Constantinople after himself. Constantine wasn’t admitted to the church until on his deathbed when he was baptized by a schismatic bishop. Constantine was probably the ultimate politician of his day but he was certainly no christian unless it provided some political iavantage.

 

[Mannyfit75]

As George Orwell once wrote: “He who controls the present controls the past. He who contrls the past controls the future.”

Never have I seen this prove out more true than in the Catholic Church. It seems as if it no longer matters what actually took place in the first couple of centuries of the Christian Church. It only matters what the Catholic Church says took place.

I tell you that I am not a Catholic, but I am as catholic as any one else here. There is no belief of the first century catholic Church that I do not hold to and I am as much a part of that Church today as Peter and Paul were themselves. That the Catholic Church won’t recognize that just proves to me that there is a difference between being Catholic and catholic. And that is why I say that the Catholic Church of today is not the catholic Church of the first century.

False statement again. I know you are not Catholic but your statement is false. The Catholic Church teaching on faith and moral has remain consistent for 2,000 yrs since its foundation. The things that has change has been our tradition such as change in the liturgical vestments, feasts days, disciplinary rules, etc.

If you bother to look up the word Catholic it means universal. That what it means. The word Catholic has no other meaning. Stop confusing us with the truth and stop spreading your lies.

The Catholic Church has been here first. There are no other Churches like it. Jesus founded it and all churches are sects and have its origins in man like those churches which stem out of the Reformation in the 1517-45s.

 

[Contarini]

No. Roman is a Rite. Look it up at Wikipedia. There are 23 Rites in the Catholic Church. 22 of which are Eastern Catholic (who are not consider Roman) and # 23 is Roman Rite which makes up the majority and** please stop calling the Catholic Church as Roman Catholic Church.** I am deeply offended by Non-Catholic Christians who keep calling us Roman Catholics

Get over it. I explained exactly what I meant by the term, and you have no reason to be offended.

Edwin

 

[Bamm]

Whoa! Whao! Hold on there Bamm. People certainly have to be Christian to go to heaven. Where did you get that crazy idea from? Please don’t say it’s from the Catholic Catechism, because if you cite that as a source you already negate your whole argument by citing a source that, according to your argument, isn’t necessarily authoritative.

I think you miss read my post. I said one does not have to be Catholic to be Christian or Catholic to go to heaven.

But, certainly the only WAY to the Father is thru THE SON.

The mention of the Catechism directed at our Catholic friends here.

BAMM

 

[Mannyfit75]

Get over it. I explained exactly what I meant by the term, and you have no reason to be offended.

Edwin

No I won’t get over it until you stop calling us Roman Catholic. Call us Catholics. Our Catechism afterall is called Catechism of the Catholic Church.

 

[Mannyfit75]

The arguments of the Protestants here are extremely weak. They are telling us Catholic doesn’t mean universal. It’s like they can’t tell apple from oranges. Are they that un-educated? I’m sure they have taken some courses

 

[LutheranStudent]

They are members of the Catholic Church period. This is not making sense to me.

You are saying, the Church Fathers were members of the Catholic Church. They were member of the Church Catholic?

That’s hogwash. It’s like say. President Bush is the President of the United States, but is not part of the United States. What kind of logic are you getting? This is confusing. It is apparent, you don’t know what you are talking about.

Frankly, I find your argument week. It’s like claimingt the Rock isn’t a rock. but it is a rock.

You see Manny, you’re getting hung up on terminology. Have you never heard that there is a difference between the Holy Invisible Church and any outward physical organization which might call itself a church? Christ’s church is not limited to ecclesiastical structure, Manny.

 

[SyCarl]

The arguments of the Protestants here are extremely weak. They are telling us Catholic doesn’t mean universal. It’s like they can’t tell apple from oranges. Are they that un-educated? I’m sure they have taken some courses

The differentiations being made are between the Catholic Church and the catholic church. The capitalization is important. The Catholic Church is the name of a particular institution while the catholic church is the universal church of all believers. At the beginning the Catholic Church and the catholic church might have been the same but that ceased once divisions occurred in the catholic church. One part retained the name the Catholic Church but the others also contained members of the catholic church.

Now you need not agree with this but it is the position that Protestants are speaking from.

 

[PinoyCatholic]

Really? The Church is invisible? Could you show me where the Bible says that?

 

[seniorrains]

I have never meet a non-Catholic that has not define the word Catholic as not to mean universal.

 

[Contarini]

No I won’t get over it until you stop calling us Roman Catholic. Call us Catholics. Our Catechism afterall is called Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Well, you’ll just have to fume then! I used the terminology that was necessary to convey my meaning.

You did notice the quotation marks around “Roman,” didn’t you? I went out of my way to accommodate your concerns and those of other Catholics who take offense at this word. You’re simply making yourself ridiculous, and more seriously you’re making Catholicism look ridiculous too, which it isn’t.

Edwin

 

[Grace_Seeker]

No I won’t get over it until you stop calling us Roman Catholic. Call us Catholics. Our Catechism afterall is called Catechism of the Catholic Church.

What do you call people who live in Canada, the United States of Mexico, or for that matter Argentina, Chile, Ecuador, Peru, and Bolivia. I call them all Americans. But I suppose you got a problem with that too.

 

[inkaneer]

Th use of the word “Roman” as in "Roman Catholic Church was first used by the English under Henry VIII to differentiate between that “foreign” Church and the Church of England. It has been adopted by protestants and represents a derogation as does the words “romist” and “papist”. That protestants resort to the use of such derogatory terminlogy speaks volumes of their alleged “christianity”. How different in demeanor from the Catholic term of calling protestants “separated brethren”.

 

[cbrownell]

As a former protestant, I feel compelled to answer this one. I never gave it one thought. Nor did I think about how or why or when my own sect began. The moment that I did think of any of that was the moment that God led me to the living waters of Catholicism where I intend to drink deeply forever in the blessed communion of saints. Hallelujah!

 

[Mannyfit75]

You see Manny, you’re getting hung up on terminology. Have you never heard that there is a difference between the Holy Invisible Church and any outward physical organization which might call itself a church? Christ’s church is not limited to ecclesiastical structure, Manny.

Tell me is the Church of Christ for the entire world? If you say it is. It is universal. In other words, it is Catholic.

Believe or not my friend. Protestants and Eastern Orthodox though not in full communion with the Pope are consider part of the Catholic Church. Their union however, is imperfect because they do not recognized the primacy of the Pope, who Jesus Christ entrusted the keys.

Through our baptism, Catholics, Protestants, and Eastern Orthodox are members of the same Body, which is the Mystical Body of Christ. Visibility this Church is the Catholic Church and its visible head is the Pope. There is also a supernatural nature of this ecclessiastical structure. It is invisible. The invisible head is Jesus Christ, and we are its members.

Protestant way of thinking believing in the invisible Church or unity of this Christian Church. Catholics believe in both the visible and invisible Church.