Protestants - When did the Catholic Church Begin?

[Mannyfit75]

What do you call people who live in Canada, the United States of Mexico, or for that matter Argentina, Chile, Ecuador, Peru, and Bolivia. I call them all Americans. But I suppose you got a problem with that too.

No that is not an issue. I consider the title Roman Catholic offensive because to address the Catholic Church as Roman Catholic ignores the Eastern Catholic Church (which are NOT ROMAN). Do you know there are 22 Eastern Rite Catholic Church? They would take to offense if they are called Roman because they are not Roman!

 

[SyCarl]

Th use of the word “Roman” as in "Roman Catholic Church was first used by the English under Henry VIII to differentiate between that “foreign” Church and the Church of England. It has been adopted by protestants and represents a derogation as does the words “romist” and “papist”. That protestants resort to the use of such derogatory terminlogy speaks volumes of their alleged “christianity”. How different in demeanor from the Catholic term of calling protestants “separated brethren”.

I have posted links like these that follow before. How can we be accused of using a derogatory term when Catholic Churches themsealves use it?

saintmarysbrooks.com/

saintgabrielchurch.com/

sfarcc.org/

 

[seniorrains]

**Non-Catholic Christians do believe in the visible and the invisible Church.

 

[Mannyfit75]

The differentiations being made are between the Catholic Church and the catholic church. The capitalization is important. The Catholic Church is the name of a particular institution while the catholic church is the universal church of all believers. At the beginning the Catholic Church and the catholic church might have been the same but that ceased once divisions occurred in the catholic church. One part retained the name the Catholic Church but the others also contained members of the catholic church.

Now you need not agree with this but it is the position that Protestants are speaking from.

I don’t because it is false. Those who cause division of the Church come from fallen state of man. Yet the one Church establish by Christ remains and its under the Pope. EO and Protestants are man-made.

However, I tend to respect EO more than I do Protestants because EO has Apostolic Succession and have seven sacraments. In time, the EO and CC will be one. I have my doubts with Protestants because their theology has changed overtime. Since that changed, there is no way Protestants will reunit with the Catholic Church.

 

[ronyodish]

The One Catholic Church is a full communion of self-governing Churches, with the Church of Rome holding Primacy among the Churches.

In Acts 2:5-11, we read that the Gospel was preached to every nation under heaven:

---

Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. And they were amazed and wondered, saying, "Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? Par’thians and Medes and E’lamites and residents of Mesopota’mia, Judea and Cappado’cia, Pontus and Asia, Phryg’ia and Pamphyl’ia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyre’ne, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians, we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.​

The one I bolded is us, the people of Mesopotamia (modern day Iraq). We are in full communion with everyone else including the Church of Rome, the martyrdom site of Sts. Peter and Paul, which holds Primacy among all the Holy Catholic Churches around the world.

We were never in the Roman empire, rather, we were in the Persian empire. We are Eastern Catholics, not Roman Catholics, but Eastern Catholics in full communion with the Universal Church, including the Holy Church of Rome, which presides in charity and confirms the brethren in the Faith.

Our liturgical prayers during the feast of Sts. Peter and Paul say the following:​

Blessed are you, O Rome, renowned city of kings,
handmaid of the heavenly Bridegroom!
For the two true preachers are laid up in you as in a harbor:
Peter, the head of the apostles,
upon whose truth our Savior built his faithful church,
and Paul the elect, apostle and builder of the churches of Christ.
By their prayers we find refuge,
that mercies and compassion may be granted our souls.​

Again, these prayers, prayed for the City and Church of Rome, are coming from the people of Assyria and Babylon, the people of the great land of Mesopotamia, from whom Abraham was called out of Ur of the Chaldeans, and where Jonah prophesied to Nineveh of the Assyrians.

We love the Pope of Rome, first among the bishops, with whom we are in full communion, and we love all the Patriarchs and Bishops of the Holy Catholic Church with which we are in full communion of peace and charity.

God bless,

Rony

 

[Grace_Seeker]

No that is not an issue. I consider the title Roman Catholic offensive because to address the Catholic Church as Roman Catholic ignores the Eastern Catholic Church (which are NOT ROMAN). Do you know there are 22 Eastern Rite Catholic Church? They would take to offense if they are called Roman because they are not Roman!

OK. I can accept that.

 

[SyCarl]

No that is not an issue. I consider the title Roman Catholic offensive because to address the Catholic Church as Roman Catholic ignores the Eastern Catholic Church (which are NOT ROMAN). Do you know there are 22 Eastern Rite Catholic Church? They would take to offense if they are called Roman because they are not Roman!

I am quite scrupulous in referring to your church as the Catholic Church in my posts. However I do not think Roman Catholic is derogatory, even though it is incorrect when referring to all the rites in communion with Rome.

 

[CentralFLJames]

… And that is why I say that the Catholic Church of today is not the catholic Church of the first century.

Are you complaining about giving up the tradition of conducting secret masses under candlelight in the caves and catacombs while under constant watch against persecution from the Romans and Jews?

Thank God we are not the same Church as in the first century!

Pass the tithing basket brother - “are you born again?” Alleluia!

James

 

[CentralFLJames]

The differentiations being made are between the Catholic Church and the catholic church. The capitalization is important. The Catholic Church is the name of a particular institution while the catholic church is the universal church of all believers. At the beginning the Catholic Church and the catholic church might have been the same but that ceased once divisions occurred in the catholic church. One part retained the name the Catholic Church but the others also contained members of the catholic church.

Now you need not agree with this but it is the position that Protestants are speaking from.

These are the same people who would call Judas catholic for breaking (his neck) from The Catholic Church.

James

 

[MarcoPolo]

I am thankful that I am not insulted to be identified, even if mistakenly, with any part of the body of Christ.

I do not understand how you are identifying who is part of the body of Christ.

 

[NotWorthy]

We don’t all agree that the Catholic Church is the one true church anymore than we agree that the Mormon Church is the one true church.

Check Constantine out. He merged Christian beliefs with pagan and that is where many of the Catholic/Christian traditions and rituals were formed and adopted.

What did Constantine do?

The main thing here is that it doesn’t really matter. Read the Catechism. One doesn’t have to be Catholic to be Christian or to go heaven.

BAMM

If one is coaching a football team and one wishes to win a game, one should use all his best players. To deny the Eucharist and the Sacrament of Penance and the Communion of Saints is like playing without your start quarterback, running back, and receiver. One can still win, but the fight is that much more difficult.

 

[NotWorthy]

As George Orwell once wrote: “He who controls the present controls the past. He who contrls the past controls the future.”

Never have I seen this prove out more true than in the Catholic Church. It seems as if it no longer matters what actually took place in the first couple of centuries of the Christian Church. It only matters what the Catholic Church says took place.

I tell you that I am not a Catholic, but I am as catholic as any one else here. There is no belief of the first century catholic Church that I do not hold to and I am as much a part of that Church today as Peter and Paul were themselves. That the Catholic Church won’t recognize that just proves to me that there is a difference between being Catholic and catholic. And that is why I say that the Catholic Church of today is not the catholic Church of the first century.

I seem to recall something about Baptism that was different in yours and my belief on a previous thread. What was it?

 

[NotWorthy]

No. Roman is a Rite. Look it up at Wikipedia. There are 23 Rites in the Catholic Church. 22 of which are Eastern Catholic (who are not consider Roman) and # 23 is Roman Rite which makes up the majority and** please stop calling the Catholic Church as Roman Catholic Church.** I am deeply offended by Non-Catholic Christians who keep calling us Roman Catholics

Manny, most Catholics are not at all to be offended by being called Roman Catholics. Most wouldn’t know the difference.

Even if the word originated as a pejorative, so what. Wasn’t the term “Christian” originally a pejorative?

I don’t think Edwin or anyone else that calls us Roman Catholic is using it as a cutdown, they are simply trying to be clear as to which group they are referring to.

Aren’t there far bigger things to be offended by than a moniker that is not meant in derision?
(Edited)

 

[NotWorthy]

Th use of the word “Roman” as in "Roman Catholic Church was first used by the English under Henry VIII to differentiate between that “foreign” Church and the Church of England. It has been adopted by protestants and represents a derogation as does the words “romist” and “papist”. That protestants resort to the use of such derogatory terminlogy speaks volumes of their alleged “christianity”. How different in demeanor from the Catholic term of calling protestants “separated brethren”.

And how many of us good Catholics have referred to other faiths as “separated brethren” on this thread. I believe the term most widely used is “protestant”.

Does this have to turn into this kind of discussion?

No harm intended, no harm done.

 

[Contarini]

Manny, most Catholics are not at all to be offended by being called Roman Catholics. Most wouldn’t know the difference.

Even if the word originated as a pejorative, so what. Wasn’t the term “Christian” originally a pejorative?

I don’t think Edwin or anyone else that calls us Roman Catholic is using it as a cutdown, they are simply trying to be clear as to which group they are referring to.

In the post that offended Manny, I used quotation marks to indicate that the term was problematic, and I explicitly acknowledged the existence of other churches in communion with Rome, though they are much smaller than the RCC.

I’m pretty sure that Manny is wrong in saying that “Roman” is only the name of a rite. It is also the name of the “sui juris” church that uses the Roman Rite. I agree that “Roman Catholic” is an inappropriate term for Eastern Catholics, which is why I used scare quotes. However, given the overwhelming dominance of the RCC among the churches currently in communion with Rome, I think that this emphasis on the Eastern Churches is a bit of an apologetics gimmick.

Edwin

 

[Mannyfit75]

I am quite scrupulous in referring to your church as the Catholic Church in my posts. However I do not think Roman Catholic is derogatory, even though it is incorrect when referring to all the rites in communion with Rome.

The fact is there are 23 Rites and Protestants need to know that. I didn’t know that there were Eastern Catholics in full communion with the Rome until I came to this forum. I do consider it offensive and it offend Eastern Catholics. Don’t call Byzantine, Ruthenians, Meronites, Caldeaneans and others as Roman. They are belong specifically to their own specific rite and have their own Code of Canon Law.

Most Eastern Rite Catholics do not adhere to Code of Canon Law in the Roman Rite. In fact, in the Eastern Rite, praying the Liturgy of the Hours meets the Sunday obligation. In the Roman Rite, it is not. A Catholic in the Latin Rite has to go to Sunday to meet his obligation. This include Mass being said at 1700 on Saturday.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Manny, most Catholics are not at all to be offended by being called Roman Catholics. Most wouldn’t know the difference.

Even if the word originated as a pejorative, so what. Wasn’t the term “Christian” originally a pejorative?

I don’t think Edwin or anyone else that calls us Roman Catholic is using it as a cutdown, they are simply trying to be clear as to which group they are referring to.

Aren’t there far bigger things to be offended by than a moniker that is not meant in derision?

Now, if they started calling me a Papist… then “it’s on”!!! :knight2:

I take offense to it. I don’t use it because Protestant use it and they failed to see other Rites who are in full communion with the Pope.

 

[NotWorthy]

I take offense to it. I don’t use it because Protestant use it and they failed to see other Rites who are in full communion with the Pope.

All right Manny.

Whatever you say.

 

[Mannyfit75]

All right Manny.

Whatever you say.

Anyways, as you can see. Protestants don’t really know when the Catholic Church started. They sure have distorted facts… they need to get it right.

 

[Olivermax]

I think most Protestants would agree with me in answering that there was never a time when the Church was totally free from error. The Scriptures are free from error, but the Church of the Apostles’ time was not.

Edwin

I disagree, the Catholic Church, although full of erring, sinful people,along with many saints, has never TAUGHT error. If it had, then the gate of Hell would have prevailed against it.