Protestants: Where is the Bible in the Bible?

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Her point is that you are essentially holding to Tradition (or the authoritative word of man) by believing that the Bible, with the books in it, is complete and infallible.

There was no instruction on which books to include in the New Testament (or Old for that matter), and MAN (the same set of beings that anything they touch you say is corrupted) chose which is to be included and which is not.

And, if you would like to go with the argument that the Holy Spirit guided them in their decision on what to include and what not to include in the Bible, then I will 100% agree with you. Not to mention, I believe that still happens to this day.
 
Protestants: Where is the Bible in the Bible?

This ridiculous arguement always makes me laugh…

Hmmmmm, where in the bible IS the bible??? Why, the letters and writings that make up the bible existed WAY before it was put into the form it is now!!! So to ask where the bible is, is silly. The writings have always been the bible. Just because they weren’t in the form it is today doesn’t mean they weren’t the guidlines for the early church. These writings are what the early church grew by, even when Paul, Peter, or the other apostles were unable to be there to lead in person.

So how can you discount the bible as if it were nothing?
 
BrewMax said:
I said Yes, I do understand the canonization process. What is your point?
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Because you accept a document that was put together and preserved through the ages by the Authority of Rome, yet you denounce this same group with words like:

“Catholics don’t have much choice do they? If one doesn’t believe in the authority of Rome, it is hit the road Jack isn’t it?”

Not very respectful of a faith group who treasures Christ and His written word.
 
cascherman said:
Her point is that you are essentially holding to Tradition (or the authoritative word of man) by believing that the Bible, with the books in it, is complete and infallible.

There was no instruction on which books to include in the New Testament (or Old for that matter), and MAN (the same set of beings that anything they touch you say is corrupted) chose which is to be included and which is not.

And, if you would like to go with the argument that the Holy Spirit guided them in their decision on what to include and what not to include in the Bible, then I will 100% agree with you. Not to mention, I believe that still happens to this day.
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You said it better than I.

I am so happy for you coming home. I will remember you in my prayers at mass tomorrow and in prayer at RCIA, of which I am a part in my parish.
:yup: :yup: :yup: :yup: :yup: :yup:
 
Singinbeauty said:
Protestants: Where is the Bible in the Bible?

This ridiculous arguement always makes me laugh…

Hmmmmm, where in the bible IS the bible??? Why, the letters and writings that make up the bible existed WAY before it was put into the form it is now!!!
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Yes they did!
Singinbeauty said:
So to ask where the bible is, is silly. The writings have always been the bible. Just because they weren’t in the form it is today doesn’t mean they weren’t the guidlines for the early church. These writings are what the early church grew by, even when Paul, Peter, or the other apostles were unable to be there to lead in person.
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In what form were they?
 
Singinbeauty said:
Protestants: Where is the Bible in the Bible?

This ridiculous arguement always makes me laugh…

Hmmmmm, where in the bible IS the bible??? Why, the letters and writings that make up the bible existed WAY before it was put into the form it is now!!! So to ask where the bible is, is silly. The writings have always been the bible.
Click to expand...
The writings of the Bible have never been there. Only parts of the Bible were. The Torah or OT was the only part of the Sacred Scripture. The NT didn’t came about after 10-20 after Jesus’s ascension into heaven.

When the Gospels were written it was spread out throughout the Roman Empire. New Gospels were coming out as well such as Gospel of Thomas, Apocalypse of Peter, Gospel of Mary, Gospel of Judas.

There were also disagreement of which Books were to be consider to be ok for reading in the Churches. Some ECF had doubts on Letter of James, Peter, Book of Revelations, and others.

It was not until 382 AD, the Synod in Rome compile a list of the Bible. These include the 46 (47 in the Eastern Rite/Orthodox) OT, and 27 NTs (to include the Deutrocanonical Books (7 Books, which the Protestant Bible does not have). Then this similiar list came about in 392 AD in Synod of Hippo, and then affirm again in the Carthage in 396 AD, and then in 1430 AD the Council of Florence both the Orthodox and the Catholic Church affirm the same list. The Canon of Scripture was finally closed in the Council of Trent in response to the Protestant Reformation.

I think the Protestant own the Church much for giving us the Bible we see today.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
The writings of the Bible have never been there. Only parts of the Bible were. The Torah or OT was the only part of the Sacred Scripture. The NT didn’t came about after 10-20 after Jesus’s ascension into heaven.

When the Gospels were written it was spread out throughout the Roman Empire. New Gospels were coming out as well such as Gospel of Thomas, Apocalypse of Peter, Gospel of Mary, Gospel of Judas.

There were also disagreement of which Books were to be consider to be ok for reading in the Churches. Some ECF had doubts on Letter of James, Peter, Book of Revelations, and others.

It was not until 382 AD, the Synod in Rome compile a list of the Bible. These include the 46 (47 in the Eastern Rite/Orthodox) OT, and 27 NTs (to include the Deutrocanonical Books (7 Books, which the Protestant Bible does not have). Then this similiar list came about in 392 AD in Synod of Hippo, and then affirm again in the Carthage in 396 AD, and then in 1430 AD the Council of Florence both the Orthodox and the Catholic Church affirm the same list. The Canon of Scripture was finally closed in the Council of Trent in response to the Protestant Reformation.

I think the Protestant own the Church much for giving us the Bible we see today.
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???what happend to the Deutorocanocal books? They used to be the Bible until around 1529?
 
qui_est_ce said:
???what happend to the Deutorocanocal books? They used to be the Bible until around 1529?
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The Protestant put it in their appendix in the back of the Bible and then remove them in the late 16th Century… Even though the Deutrocanonical Books have been used since the time of Jesus Christ…and has been a part of our Christian tradition.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
The Protestant put it in their appendix in the back of the Bible and then remove them in the late 16th Century… Even though the Deutrocanonical Books have been used since the time of Jesus Christ…and has been a part of our Christian tradition.
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So, back to the original request by Brew, who wondered why I wondered “WHO GAVE US THE BIBLE?” And why it is ok to discredit the very Church which gave us the Bible? Or more accuratly discerned by the HS to discern what was the inspired word of God
 
qui_est_ce said:
So, back to the original request by Brew, who wondered why I wondered “WHO GAVE US THE BIBLE?” And why it is ok to discredit the very Church which gave us the Bible? Or more accuratly discerned by the HS to discern what was the inspired word of God
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I think your questions to “Brew” are quite baited; and it is no wonder that most Protestants on this forum are shying away from them.

You are obviously trying to say here that the Bible was given to us by the Catholic Church. Where does it say that in the Bible? I do not say that you are lying on that count; but you are sure repeating a lie.

In an earlier post, I think it was post #17 the claim was made that “Tradition” with a capitol T was infallible; and that as such Marian doctrines held by Catholics, are Tradition, and infallible. None of that is in the Bible. Catholic “tradition” is different than the Tradition approved of in the Bible; and Catholic Marian doctrines, are not the same as Bible doctrines/Traditions about Mary.

The Catholic interpretation of “Mary” in Rev.12 is utterly eisegesis gone wild. I think you have a lot more explaining to do than Brew.

You obviously don’t know the Bible very well; for you have also given a false statement on Sola Scriptura. To clarify your position, can you tell us precisely what is Sola Scriptura, and what source have you gotten your information from?
 
Mannyfit75 said:
The writings of the Bible have never been there. Only parts of the Bible were. The Torah or OT was the only part of the Sacred Scripture. The NT didn’t came about after 10-20 after Jesus’s ascension into heaven.
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And? It still existed before it was put in it’s current form.
Mannyfit75 said:
When the Gospels were written it was spread out throughout the Roman Empire. New Gospels were coming out as well such as Gospel of Thomas, Apocalypse of Peter, Gospel of Mary, Gospel of Judas.
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But you have to agree that the bible existed WAY before being put into it’s current form. I am not talking about those other books, I am talking about the books contained in the bible.
Mannyfit75 said:
There were also disagreement of which Books were to be consider to be ok for reading in the Churches. Some ECF had doubts on Letter of James, Peter, Book of Revelations, and others.
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And yet they still made it in. Doesn’t discount the fact that the books that are included in our current bible existed before the church decided to put it all together in one convenient place.
Mannyfit75 said:
It was not until 382 AD, the Synod in Rome compile a list of the Bible. These include the 46 (47 in the Eastern Rite/Orthodox) OT, and 27 NTs (to include the Deutrocanonical Books (7 Books, which the Protestant Bible does not have). Then this similiar list came about in 392 AD in Synod of Hippo, and then affirm again in the Carthage in 396 AD, and then in 1430 AD the Council of Florence both the Orthodox and the Catholic Church affirm the same list. The Canon of Scripture was finally closed in the Council of Trent in response to the Protestant Reformation.
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I don’t see the relevance of this pertaining to my post that you quoted… *sigh You can’t deny that the bible existed way before being put in its current form. These letters and writings are what the early church used when the apostles weren’t able to be physically there. So how can these writings NOT have authority?
Mannyfit75 said:
I think the Protestant own the Church much for giving us the Bible we see today.
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We ‘protestants’ don’t OWN the church. And I think we OWE God for the bible we have today. Not the humans that put His inspired words into its current form. But that’s just me…
 
qui_est_ce said:
I am a cradle Catholic. My dad was Mo. Synod Lutheran. I don’t remember him talking about Sola Scriptura or justification by faith alone. I remember him rising every Sunday morning, saying, “Der Herr ist Auferstanden.” (the Lord is Risen) It used to embarass me. As much as I detest Sola Scriptura, OSAS, and the Reformation, I must say my dad was truly a model of faith for me. My grandfather (my father’s father) was an Evangelical Luthern Pastor from East Germany, where Martin Luther began his protestantism. Grandfather objected to my dad marrying a Catholic woman (my mom). My mom was not allowed to marry inside a Catholic church because Dad was Protestant, so they married on the steps of the Catholic Church in her little town in France in 1947. By that time, my dad had stopped going to church. My mom insisted he return to his church. He did. They both raised 4 children in the CC. Two are non-believers, or I should say, they don’t believe in “organized religion.” I, for myself, am 100% Catholic. My Dad died Mo Synod Lutheran. His faith spoke volumes to me. Would he have converted had his life not been cut short at age 52? I do not know.

I do know Daddy visits me in dreams. He first visit was the night he was murdered, before I even knew he was dead.

My dad’s whole side of the family (brothers and sisters, and their children) have converted to Catholicism. They were afraid to admit it at first, and kept it secret, until Grossvater died. Now they openly proclaim, “What other Church is there, but the Catholic Church?” Their original faith in Lutheranism and subsequent journeys into Catholicism did much to educate me in the truth of the Holy Catholic.

I would venture the whole point of the above is that faith is an ongoing journey. Do not be ashamed of where you have been. If you keep your heart open to Truth and fear not Truth, the Lord will lead you to green pastures.
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Hello,

That was a very moving story about your faith. I was raised a Southern Baptist, no dancing, drinking, smoking and so on…. I was always taught I could not loose my faith, once saved, always saved. The only problem was, if I were to drink, dance, smoke and everything else, “I must not be saved….” I enlisted in the military in the late 80’s and was out of my parents grasp for the first time. I would fall into sin hear and there and feel guilty as hell! I would talk to the pastor and was told the same old thing, once saved, always saved. A very confusing thing to never know what the rules really were and how to follow God and his plan of life. So needles to say, with every Baptist preacher I talked to I would get a slightly different answer depending on his interpretation. After years of frustration and doubting my faith, I resigned myself to live a stress free life of not attending any church.

But in 95 the Lord gave me a wife. I knew I wanted a good life and marriage so I began to take her to Church. After a while in Church she was baptized in the Baptist Church. After ten years of hit or miss church attendance and two boys later we both decided something was wrong with the whole protestant/Baptist thing. I truly believed the Holy Spirit led us to the Catholic Church. I also had a dream or two about my Granddad, although I can’t remember if he said anything…. My wife and I now have a home and just like raising children, I know what is expected of me-I finally have direction from the Church, not just a saying of the “Holy Spirit will guide me.”

The best thing ever, was my first confession. I did not tell anyone, but I almost broke down and cried talking to the priest. This was something I could not admit after all, I’m cop! I told him things I have never told anyone and for the first time in my life I knew I had been forgiven!

As for my parents, they believe I belong to a cult and I’m heading straight for hell! If they only knew, they believe this out of pride, they will let a preacher berate them all day long, but heaven forbid a priest or the Pope say the same thing. Now that I am Catholic, I finally get to understand the History of the Church and all the Christians who died in the defense of the faith for the last two-thousand years! How can you know where you are going if you don’t know where you have been?

I do not know if my Granddad can hear me when I pray for him or talk to him, but at least I do not feel like a heretic for doing just that. As far as the priest and nuns, I hold them in high regard, what a group of special people; they are the ones who I really look up too. And I will say, in the Catholic Church, the truth has set me free!
 
JMJ_coder said:
Hello,

Because if it claims that it is the absolute only authoritative source for God’s revelation to man, then it should make that claim - otherwise sola scriptura fails on this point.
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Where’s it say that, then?
 
BrewMax said:
I’ll bet the Orthodox Christians would have plenty to say about that.
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Darn tooting 😃 , but the argument that ‘the Church put it together’ would be valid regardless of which church you believe it was; Orthodox or Catholic
 
Hello,
Singinbeauty said:
But you have to agree that the bible existed WAY before being put into it’s current form. I am not talking about those other books, I am talking about the books contained in the bible.

And yet they still made it in. Doesn’t discount the fact that the books that are included in our current bible existed before the church decided to put it all together in one convenient place.
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There were other books that the early Early Church Fathers thought should be included into the canon - like 1 Clement and the Shepherd of Hermas. There were others that some thought shouldn’t be included in the canon - like Hebrews and Revelations. There are many lists of canons composed by various Bishops in the first few centuries. The first of these that contain the canon as we know it today was composed by Saint Athanasius.
 
Hello,
Protestant101 said:
You are obviously trying to say here that the Bible was given to us by the Catholic Church. Where does it say that in the Bible? I do not say that you are lying on that count; but you are sure repeating a lie.
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It is a matter of historical fact! By the way, Catholics are not bound by it must be in the Bible, as Protestants are. Catholics, having the fullness of revealed Truth have all three modes of divine revelation - Scripture, Tradition, and the Magisterium.
Protestant101 said:
In an earlier post, I think it was post #17 the claim was made that “Tradition” with a capitol T was infallible; and that as such Marian doctrines held by Catholics, are Tradition, and infallible. None of that is in the Bible. Catholic “tradition” is different than the Tradition approved of in the Bible; and Catholic Marian doctrines, are not the same as Bible doctrines/Traditions about Mary.
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Debating Marian dogmas is fodder for another thread. But you are correct that the Marian dogmas are not explicit in the Bible, nor need they be. They are part of Sacred Tradition.
Protestant101 said:
The Catholic interpretation of “Mary” in Rev.12 is utterly eisegesis gone wild. I think you have a lot more explaining to do than Brew.
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Rev. 12 makes sense to me. Again another thread.
Protestant101 said:
You obviously don’t know the Bible very well; for you have also given a false statement on Sola Scriptura. To clarify your position, can you tell us precisely what is Sola Scriptura, and what source have you gotten your information from?
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Sola Scriptura - the erroneous idea that the sole authority and mode of revealed truth is the Bible and that it sufficiently contains all revelation within it needed for salvation. The source are Protestants on this forum.
 
Hello,
Montalban said:
Where’s it say that, then?
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Say what? The Bible in the Bible - it doesn’t. That it must make such a statement - it doesn’t - that is a logical deduction. If something is the only source of authority it must contain a statement within itself to testify to that authority.
 
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