Protestants: Who are your 'Saints' in Heaven?

[GKMotley]

Which ought not to be hard to do. The name is very common, in the south, at least. One locally is advertising their Lenten services.

Certainly hard to generalize, and not just as to Anglicans.

 

[AugustTherese]

How does a Catholic substantiate said?

Answering a question with a question is not an answer; it is a tactic to dodge the fact that there is no answer to my question.

I would say substantiate requires more than the say so of members of the Church Militant

I would agree! So, how do these ‘various churches’ substantiate if a soul is in Heaven?

 

[JonNC]

Answering a question with a question is not an answer; it is a tactic to dodge the fact that there is no answer to my question.

Actually, I used it as a rhetorical devise, showing that, in fact, the question cannot be answered in the way you asked. No one can substantiate it.

I would agree! So, how do these ‘various churches’ substantiate if a soul is in Heaven?

With prayerful hope, just as the Catholic Church does.

 

[Avrowolf]

Let’s see… There’s Jack Daniels, Jose Cuevro, Captain Morgan, Johnny Walker, Jim Beam, Don Julio, Samuel Adams, Sleeman…

On a serious note, Baptists don’t canonize saints

 

[GKMotley]

I also noted Sts. Mark, Matthew, Peter, George, Luke, Paul, Stephen (the pattern is discernible),Baptist churches in the local area.

 

[Aulef]

St Peter and St John are Apostles. Maybe this is why they are addressed as saints in some protestant groups.

By the way, the principle I mentioned apply to most of the protestant denominations, not all of them. The early ones held many of the Churches’ tradition officially venerate great men and women.

 

[JonNC]

I think Itwin’s post a few posts up answered your question well.

 

[GKMotley]

And he opens it with a very wise sentence.

 

[GKMotley]

You are correct.

 

[Aulef]

I don’t agree. I’ll reply him next. I didn’t before because I was away from the internet this weekend

 

[Aulef]

Aulef:

As far as I know, it is a protestant principle to not have saints.

Well, depends on what Protestants you are talking about.

Yet, even those Protestants from “low church” backgrounds still believe that there are saints. We just apply the term to any Christian living or dead. A saint is literally a holy, sanctified person, and all truly born again people are by definition holy and set apart to God.

So, we use the term saint in the way that Paul uses it in his epistles. For example, Paul greets the Christians of Ephesus in the following way in Ephesians 1:1, " Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus." Literally, he’s addressing his letter to the “holy people who are in Ephesus.”

We also have heroes of the faith who we commemorate and remember for their lives and acts of faithfulness, but we have no need of any official process for recognizing them. Their lives and actions will speak for themselves.

I didn’t understand very well your explanation on the 2nd paragraph about every christian being a saint, so I won’t comment.

But I’d like to alert you about the Bible quote of yours. Saint Paul had lived in Ephesus for three years. This was before he wrote this epistle you mentioned. There, he founded a church and left bishops and presbyters, all consecrated by him, in charge of it.

These members of the church of Ephesus are the ones St. Paul calls saints. He calls them so because when he consecrated them, the Holy Ghost descended in their souls and they became able to preach in various languages and perform many miracles. They were not ordinary people who only had faith. The Holy Ghost, through St. Paul the Apostle, officially made them saints of the church of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Finally, regarding the last paragraph, official recognition of saints has many advantages and they are greater than the disadvantages. We could talk about it in another topic if you want.

 

[AugustTherese]

No one can substantiate it

So, you do not know exactly whom you have a real communion with in Heaven, considering ‘no one can substantiate’ who is in Heaven interceding for us, in union with us?

With prayerful hope, just as the Catholic Church does

Our Communion of Saints is not merely predicated on ‘prayerful hope’. We know, of those who are revealed, exactly who is in Heaven in union with those who are in full communion with the rest of the Church of Christ; it is not an unknown who our family is and with whom we are one with, especially Saints in Heaven.

 

[JonNC]

So, you do not know exactly whom you have a real communion with in Heaven, considering ‘no one can substantiate’ who is in Heaven interceding for us, in union with us?

And neither do you.

Our Communion of Saints is not merely predicated on ‘prayerful hope’. We know, of those who are revealed, exactly who is in Heaven in union with those who are in full communion with the rest of the Church of Christ; it is not an unknown who our family is and with whom we are one with, especially Saints in Heaven.

And how, exactly, do you know? I believe that, based on scripture, we can have pretty good idea who is among the saints on Earth and in Heaven, but an objective list isn’t for us to know, anymore than there is a list available to us of those who aren’t

 

[AugustTherese]

And neither do you.

I asked you a question relating to whom you might know who is in Heaven in union with you, and you answer with, “And neither do you”? This thread is not about Catholicism nor Our Communion of Saints; it is about how Protestants define their ‘communion of saints’. There have been many times I have asked you simple questions and you retort with questions and/or statements about Catholics, reversing the burden of proof. I have a strong suspicion that there might be some projections being made when questions cannot be answered.

I believe that, based on scripture, we can have pretty good idea who is among the saints on Earth and in Heaven, but an objective list isn’t for us to know

So, who is among the saints in Heaven?

 

[JonNC]

Our Communion of Saints; it is about how Protestants define their ‘communion of saints’.

There are not different Communions of Saints. There is only one, comprised of those throughout history that by grace are in Heaven.

There have been many times I have asked you simple questions and you retort with questions about Catholics, reversing the burden of proof. I have a strong suspicion that there might be some projections being made when questions cannot be answered.

I didn’t mention the Catholic Church. But if you don’t like my responses, why respond?

So, who is among the saints in Heaven?

He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

I suspect there are hundreds of millions or more who have transferred to the Church Triumphant.
There are Christians of all types. I pray to be among them when my time here has ended

 

[AugustTherese]

There is only one, comprised of those throughout history that by grace are in Heaven.

Agreed! Can we have a personal, intimate relationship with any of them? Can we communicate and have a prayerful dialogue with any individual Saint in Heaven?

But if you don’t like my responses, why respond?

Because I care about your soul.

 

[JonNC]

Agreed! Can we have a personal, intimate relationship with any of them? Can we communicate and have a prayerful dialogue with any individual Saint in Heaven?

As a server at mass, the priest and server pray the following:

I confess to Almighty God, to Blessed Mary Ever-Virgin, to blessed Michael the Archangel, to blessed John Baptist, to the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, to all the Saints, and to you, brethren, that I have sinned exceedingly in thought, word, and deed, through my fault, through my own fault, through my own most grievous fault. Therefore I beg Blessed Mary Ever-Virgin, blessed Michael the Archangel, blessed John Baptist, the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, and all the Saints, and you, brethren, to pray to the Lord our God for me.
** Server. Almighty God have mercy upon thee, forgive thee thy sins, and bring thee to everlasting life. Amen.**

I think they hear and pray for me.

 

[lanman87]

I didn’t understand very well your explanation on the 2nd paragraph about every christian being a saint, so I won’t comment.

But I’d like to alert you about the Bible quote of yours. Saint Paul had lived in Ephesus for three years. This was before he wrote this epistle you mentioned. There, he founded a church and left bishops and presbyters, all consecrated by him, in charge of it.

In both the old and new Testaments the terms saints was used to describe those who are faithful to God.

To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours: 1 Corinthians 1:2

So in a very real sense, Saints are all of those who have faith in Christ. This is the evangelical understanding of the word and how we apply it. There are saints who have went on before us and are in heaven, saints that are alive today, and future saints who will one day be born again by the work of the Holy Spirit.

We celebrate the legacy of the saints who have passed into Heaven, we fellowship and worship and serve with the saints here on earth, and we seek for people to become saints by the preaching the Gospel of Christ so that as Christ convicts people of the fact they are a sinner and need a savior they will be born again by the Spirit and place their faith in Christ.

 

[GKMotley]

Similar form of the Confiteor is used in my parish.

 

[JonNC]

Similar form of the Confiteor is used in my parish.

I assume you, like me, believe they hear and pray for us.