Protestants who believe in the Real Presence: Are they committing idolatry?

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Catholics and Orthodox Christians are not the only ones who believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. From the Catholic Church’s perspective, only churches with apostolic succession, including the Catholic Church and Orthodox churches, have guaranteed, authentic Eucharist. And then there are those bishops and priests who leave the Catholic Church in schism; it seems they also have a true Real Presence, even though not lawfully so, because they bring with them their Holy Orders.

Okay that aside -
Does this meant that Protestants who believe in the real presence, such as Lutherans and Anglicans, are committing idolatry in the Catholic perspective?
 
Hi.

I don’t speak for the Catholic Church, but I think I can answer this.

One can believe in the real presence and still not be saved. The same way someone can believe in God and not be saved.

We are not saved by faith alone. An obvious stumbling block for the Protestant denominations.

If they have committed any idolatry, it was trusting in themselves instead of trusting in Chirsts Apostles.
 
I don’t think such worship can be regarded as idolatry because the intention of their heart is to worship not the bread and wine but Jesus Christ present in or under the bread and wine. Though Jesus is not substantially present there, he is still spiritually present there by virtue of his omnipresent divinity.
 
I wouldn’t be idolatry, since adoration of the true God isn’t such. In the eyes of these reformed, protestant, or Anglican assemblies - they firmly believe that their Communion is such the body of Christ. Think of a youngster who honestly believes in Santa Claus. They’ll be good, they’ll await him, they’ll fill up with anxiety when Santa is watching. They see him at the shops and honestly, truly, believe it is him. I also know more Anglicans who believe in the real presence than Catholics, unfortunately.
 
Yes, if their ordinations are invalid and they adore the bread and wine as God, then it can be classified as idolatry since they are adoring something that isn’t God. Just as if a Catholic were to adore a statue by claiming it is God Himself. Since they don’t know that Our Lord is not present, and they truly believe it to be validly consecrated, they are probably not culpable.
 
Confiteor_Deo said:
Yes, if their ordinations are invalid and they adore the bread and wine as God, then it can be classified as idolatry since they are adoring something that isn’t God. Just as if a Catholic were to adore a statue by claiming it is God Himself. Since they don’t know that Our Lord is not present, and they truly believe it to be validly consecrated, they are probably not culpable.
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There’s the word I was looking for. They wouldn’t be culpable, because as they believe, have been taught, and have practised - to them, it is the real presence. In reality, it isn’t, but it’s a Platonically caveman situation.
 
catholic1seeks said:
Catholics and Orthodox Christians are not the only ones who believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. From the Catholic Church’s perspective, only churches with apostolic succession, including the Catholic Church and Orthodox churches, have guaranteed, authentic Eucharist. And then there are those bishops and priests who leave the Catholic Church in schism; it seems they also have a true Real Presence, even though not lawfully so, because they bring with them their Holy Orders.

Okay that aside -
Does this meant that Protestants who believe in the real presence, such as Lutherans and Anglicans, are committing idolatry in the Catholic perspective?
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Hmmm… Coming from a non-Catholic church that believe God is present in a unique way during Communion, I certainly hope not! 😉 Certainly we are not *intentionally *doing so – just as you are not *intending *to worship Mary, even though many Protestants think your prayers to her (EDIT: …through her …?) go too far. I think the state of our heart attitudes on this issue matters more to God – who after all sees the heart, not just the outward actions.

"When they entered, he looked at Eliab and thought, “Surely the LORD’S anointed is before Him.” But the LORD said to Samuel, “Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.”

1 Samuel 16: 6-7

Though I must admit I really fail to see why apostolic succession should matter to me, especially after two millennia, when any hope of preserving the true will of the original apostles has been long lost (as is evidenced by the corruption of many of the successors). Certainly I would be more inclined to trust a successor appointed directly by Peter, but even then I wouldn’t consider him the only church authority – you didn’t have to be an apostle to be a servant of God. Paul, after all, was essentially on the level of the apostles while not himself an apostle. Would a communion held by him (or those appointed by him) be invalid? I really don’t understand the logic of this position. Oh well. 🤷
 
Confiteor_Deo said:
Yes, if their ordinations are invalid and they adore the bread and wine as God, then it can be classified as idolatry since they are adoring something that isn’t God. Just as if a Catholic were to adore a statue by claiming it is God Himself. Since they don’t know that Our Lord is not present, and they truly believe it to be validly consecrated, they are probably not culpable.
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No. No one worships bread. We worship what the bread becomes.

Are you a priest? If not, please stop giving authoritative answers like these. If you are a priest, please read what Pope Benedict wrote about Christ being present in a protestant’s Lord’s Supper.
 
catholic1seeks,
This is one of those ask your priest type of questions. I find with these you get a few different options as answers.

God bless you for taking the time to ponder these questions. It’s how we grow in faith.
 
Okay that aside -
Does this meant that Protestants who believe in the real presence, such as Lutherans and Anglicans, are committing idolatry in the Catholic perspective?

Lutherans don’t believe in the real presence because they don’t believe in transubstantiation.

I can’t speak whether or not they commit idolatry. To me idolatry is putting anything before God. You can believe in the real presence and still commit idolatry.
 
catholic1seeks said:
Catholics and Orthodox Christians are not the only ones who believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. From the Catholic Church’s perspective, only churches with apostolic succession, including the Catholic Church and Orthodox churches, have guaranteed, authentic Eucharist. And then there are those bishops and priests who leave the Catholic Church in schism; it seems they also have a true Real Presence, even though not lawfully so, because they bring with them their Holy Orders.

Okay that aside -
Does this meant that Protestants who believe in the real presence, such as Lutherans and Anglicans, are committing idolatry in the Catholic perspective?
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Lutherans don’t believe in the real presence because they don’t believe in transubstantiation like Catholics.

I can’t speak on whether or not they commit idolatry. To me idolatry is putting anything before God.
 
myway said:
Lutherans don’t believe in the real presence because they don’t believe in transubstantiation like Catholics.

I can’t speak on whether or not they commit idolatry. To me idolatry is putting anything before God.
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Actually Lutherans do believe in the real presence even if they don’t believe in Transubstantiation. I’d suggest reading Article 10 of the Augsburg Confession. Transubstantiation is just one form of Real Presence practiced by various Christian denominations. Anglicans also believe in the Real Presence.
 
For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them."Matthew 18:20
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I think even the Baptists think he is there spiritually already, anyway so probably not.

However, I know of no protestant denomination that practices Eucharistic adoration. And I do think they would all probably see that as idolatry. Well, maybe not Anglicans
 
Lenten_ashes said:
I think even the Baptists think he is there spiritually already, anyway so probably not.

However, I know of no protestant denomination that practices Eucharistic adoration. And I do think they would all probably see that as idolatry. Well, maybe not Anglicans
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Some high church Anglicans and high church Lutherans also practice Eucharistic Adoration.
 
FractalFire said:
Hmmm… Coming from a non-Catholic church that believe God is present in a unique way during Communion,
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Interesting, interesting. I thought Presbyterians had a more “low church” view of it. But maybe I’m overly influenced by stuff I read all those years ago in Rome Sweet Home, e.g. “If the wafer Catholics worship is not Christ… then it is idolatrous and blasphemous to do what Catholics do in bowing before and worshiping the Eucharist.”
 
Lenten_ashes said:
I think even the Baptists think he is there spiritually already, anyway so probably not.

However, I know of no protestant denomination that practices Eucharistic adoration. And I do think they would all probably see that as idolatry. Well, maybe not Anglicans
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Depending on the Anglicans, yes, benediction and adoration of the Blessed Body.

Last time I was in a cassock and surplices was to assist.

Been years since then.
 
Padres1969 said:
Actually Lutherans do believe in the real presence even if they don’t believe in Transubstantiation. I’d suggest reading Article 10 of the Augsburg Confession. Transubstantiation is just one form of Real Presence practiced by various Christian denominations. Anglicans also believe in the Real Presence.
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Real Presence is the what, transubstantiation the how.

You can find Anglicans who have no problem with transubstantiation.
 
Objectively yes. Of course, we do not hold them guilty of it because they simply are going with what they know and believe. And as a former Anglican priest said, these things are not devoid of grace. He credits this grace for his conversion and that of his entire Anglican parish into the Catholic Church through the Ordinariate.
 
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