Protestants who believe Mary, the Mother of God sinned

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Should we not take Romans 3:23 and Romans 5:14 together? Romans 5:14 says, “Death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who did not sin after the pattern of the trespass of Adam.” Taken together, is it a possibility that small children and those who do not have the mental capacity to sin were being referred to here? If they didnot sin and God iseternally saying in the present tense, “I am putting enmity between the Woman and the devil” why isitnot proed that by God’s grace, Mary was preserved from ever being in the devil’s camp?
Also, what about Genesis 3: 15 and the outside of time nature of the thought of God that I asked about in post 109?
 
Dokimas-

After 1,700 posts, you really should know how to use the quote function properly by now. Responding to your posts in a clear manner is truly tedious. The scrambled mess below is an example of the problems created by your inattention to this forum courtesy.
Originally Posted by Randy Carson

*With that exception, are you conceding that all have NOT sinned? *

I don’t know at what time babies start sinning. My guess is pretty quickly.

So, a six-month old has reached the age of reason? A two-year old?

And can you consequently prove, that all who are born have inherited original sin?
You said so, (you excepted Jesus and I guess Mary). I’d agree only with Jesus. If Mary didn’t have original sin and did not sin why did she need a Savior?
She was saved from inheriting original sin by Jesus. That’s the whole point of the Immaculate Conception. A doctor can cure you of a disease after you have contracted it, or he can inoculate you against the disease in advance. Mary was saved by Jesus before she inherited original sin.
Or is it possible that God could preserve one from original sin if he wanted to?
He is Soveriegn. He is, however, limited to the truth He established*.*
Please demonstrate the truth that He violated by saving Mary in a unique way.
 
Dokimas-

After 1,700 posts, you really should know how to use the quote function properly by now. Responding to your posts in a clear manner is truly tedious. The scrambled mess below is an example of the problems created by your inattention to this forum courtesy.
There are a few reasons I continue to post as I do: sometimes I only have time to post the way I do. But most important, the way I post it keeps the whole conversation together which makes following what statements go with what comments easier, IMO.
 
But most important, the way I post it keeps the whole conversation together which makes following what statements go with what comments easier, IMO.
Dokimas, you’re only thinking about your immediate post to the comment being easier to follow and not any post quoting you thereafter. Members and lurkers not participating in the conversation, do read the entire threads or many consecutive posts per page after all.

If everyone posted your way, the Catholic Answers forum would deter alot of readers.
Personally, when I see posts like Randy’s in an attempt to respond to yours, I just bypass it all together. It’s a pet peeve of mine and it can be quite frustrating to separate who’s words are who’s.
 
Mary herself said she needed a Savior. However,
Lu.1:26-56 tells the the story of the beginning of the ‘Birth of Jesus Fortold.’
If the Power of the Most High overshadowed Mary that alone would protect her.
The specific question is not addressed in scripture, but we can draw a conclusion by reading these verses. 🙂
I would say,No. God the Father was protecting her from the evil one.
Jesus is Emmanuel, God with us. Mt.1:23

bluelake
Now, wait a minute, that is interesting. You interpret / understand that the Sprit of God overshadowed Her the entire time? I had never thought of it like that, just to impreginate, but, yes, thank you for your understanding of it.
 
I come to my own conclusion after all our sincere explanations, that if the certain fundamentalists refuse to accept and honor the Mother of Christ, yet claim to be Christian…I tend to see fundamentalism as a solitary Bible and me religion.

I see it at their loss and I am very thankful for participating and being replenished in faith with the communion of saints, not the living here on earth, but those in heaven.

In spite of the pomp and circumstance those may perceive Catholic/Orthodox liturgies, Mary our Mother who really makes us a family more than a church.
 

It’s quite a good question and looks quite serious to me. If it wasn’t serious, let me ask it seriously: “Do Catholics believe that our salvation depends on whether we know if Mary sinned or not, remained a virgin or not, was immaculately conceived or not?”​

Let me go a step further: is our salvation based on whether or not Mary ever sinned, remained a virgin or was immaculately conceived?
Code:
 In other words, if Mary sinned, didn't remain a virgin or was not immaculately conceived, does that mean we are still dead in our sins?
Yes it was a serious and I believe a very important question.

Another serious question-** Do Catholics believe that Jesus the 3rd person of the GODHEAD was capable of inheriting sin from His mother? or was incapable of blocking original sin?**

Someone asked about a Bible quote, it was NIV, but here is more with links:
aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Peshittainterlinear/5_Acts/Actsch6.pdf

aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Lamsa/5_Acts/Acts6.htm

Acts 6
8 Now Stephen, full of grace and power, and did great wonders and miracles among the people.

Do Catholics believe that she was also full of power? According to the Catholic church did she perform miracles?

NIV:
Matthew 1
25But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

King James:
25And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Peschitta:
aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Peshittainterlinear/1_Matthew/Mattich1.pdf

aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Lamsa/1_Matthew/Matthew1.htm

Kathleen - Are you saying that our thoughts and explanations aren’t sincere? Mary was certainly blessed what an honor to carry not GOD, as in the GODHEAD but one of the persons of the GODHEAD. No true Trinitarian Christian is saying otherwise, we are just not adding inappropriate/false doctrine to our beliefs.
 
Yes it was a serious and I believe a very important question.

Another serious question-** Do Catholics believe that Jesus the 3rd person of the GODHEAD was capable of inheriting sin from His mother? or was incapable of blocking original sin?**

Someone asked about a Bible quote, it was NIV, but here is more with links:
aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Peshittainterlinear/5_Acts/Actsch6.pdf

aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Lamsa/5_Acts/Acts6.htm

Acts 6
8 Now Stephen, full of grace and power, and did great wonders and miracles among the people.

Do Catholics believe that she was also full of power? According to the Catholic church did she perform miracles?

NIV:
Matthew 1
25But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

King James:
25And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Peschitta:
aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Peshittainterlinear/1_Matthew/Mattich1.pdf

aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Lamsa/1_Matthew/Matthew1.htm

Kathleen - Are you saying that our thoughts and explanations aren’t sincere? Mary was certainly blessed what an honor to carry not GOD, as in the GODHEAD but one of the persons of the GODHEAD. No true Trinitarian Christian is saying otherwise, we are just not adding inappropriate/false doctrine to our beliefs.
Good questions and thoughts.
 

If it wasn’t serious, let me ask it seriously: “Do Catholics believe that our salvation depends on whether we know if Mary sinned or not, remained a virgin or not, was immaculately conceived or not?”​

Let me go a step further: is our salvation based on whether or not Mary ever sinned, remained a virgin or was immaculately conceived?
Of course not! Does that answer your question?
 
Good answer.
😃 Thanks. I’m usually more blunt than that. The point is: If you honor Mary - if you love her like we know Christ does, then she can do great things for your salvation. But knowing her is not necessary for salvation.
 
😃 Thanks. I’m usually more blunt than that. The point is: If you honor Mary - if you love her like we know Christ does, then she can do great things for your salvation. But knowing her is not necessary for salvation.
Now you’ve said things about the wonderful woman Mary that I don’t accept as truth. Just my opinion, though.
 
Now you’ve said things about the wonderful woman Mary that I don’t accept as truth. Just my opinion, though.
And you’re welcome to it, friend. But why don’t you accept that as truth?
 

It’s quite a good question and looks quite serious to me. If it wasn’t serious, let me ask it seriously: “Do Catholics believe that our salvation depends on whether we know if Mary sinned or not, remained a virgin or not, was immaculately conceived or not?”​

Let me go a step further: is our salvation based on whether or not Mary ever sinned, remained a virgin or was immaculately conceived?
Code:
              In other words, if Mary sinned, didn't remain a virgin or was not immaculately conceived, does that mean we are still dead in our sins?
My understanding of the Catholic Church’s teaching is that we are saved by Grace when we believe in Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity made man, and that we shall be judged by our charity (and Faith) showing through our works (or lack thereof).

Does any person’s salvation depend on their belief of the points under discussion? Yes, if that person has promised God that they will accept and believe all that the Catholic Church teaches authoritatively must be believed by Catholics and they know the Church teaches it authoritatively, then the answer is yes, because they are knowingly breaking their promise to God.
If the person has not come to believe that when God revealed in Gen. 3:15 that “He was putting enmity between the Woman and the devil, between Her seed and his”, if they do not understand that this must result in God eternally putting enmity between the Woman and the devil, then they may not be held accountable unless, unless God knows for certain that it is their fault for not coming to believe this because they did not seek the whole truth, with their whole heart, mind, soul, and strength.
St. Paul writing to the Thessalonians, at 2:10, “for those who are perishing because they have not accepted the love of the truth so that they may be saved”, has to be applied to each of us. I am certain most people have failed at some points in their lives to truly love the whole truth with their whole heart, mind, soul and strength. The question then becomes, am I giving God the evidence He needs to see to show true repentance? In Luke 3:8, we find John the Baptist challenging the Pharisees, (and therefore us), "where are your good fruits to show (true) repentance? If we have failed at some points in our lives to love the truth, are we now sincerely loving it and showing God that we only want to believe all that He wants us to believe?
On the question of Mary sinning: If God has one, eternal, infinite, always in the present tense thought, and therefore He is always IN THE PRESENT TENSE SAYING, ‘I am putting enmity between the woman and the devil’, could She sin? If you say “yes”, then how do you explain it without God not being All-Powerful since He is putting enmity between the woman and the devil and this does not keep Her out of the devil’s camp? If you deny that God has one eternal, infinite, always in the present tense thought; then your God does not know all things now; then your God is not the Creator of time because he is subject to it in His thoughts; and His thought could not be infinite because he would think one thing then another; and which “thought” of God is the “Word made Flesh”?
Posts 109, 192, 205 address this issue also. Does anyone deny that in order for God to be truly God, He must have one, infinite, eternal, always in the present tense thought?
 
Yes it was a serious and I believe a very important question.

Another serious question-** Do Catholics believe that Jesus the 3rd person of the GODHEAD was capable of inheriting sin from His mother? or was incapable of blocking original sin?**

Someone asked about a Bible quote, it was NIV, but here is more with links:
aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Peshittainterlinear/5_Acts/Actsch6.pdf

aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Lamsa/5_Acts/Acts6.htm

Acts 6
8 Now Stephen, full of grace and power, and did great wonders and miracles among the people.

Do Catholics believe that she was also full of power? According to the Catholic church did she perform miracles?

NIV:
Matthew 1
25But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

King James:
25And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Peschitta:
aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Peshittainterlinear/1_Matthew/Mattich1.pdf

aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Lamsa/1_Matthew/Matthew1.htm

Kathleen - Are you saying that our thoughts and explanations aren’t sincere? Mary was certainly blessed what an honor to carry not GOD, as in the GODHEAD but one of the persons of the GODHEAD. No true Trinitarian Christian is saying otherwise, we are just not adding inappropriate/false doctrine to our beliefs.
I would like to offer that since God is perfectly simple, that is not divisible, ( you can not have part of God anywhere), therefore the whole Divine Trinity must be everywhere any one of them is (of coarse that is everywhere because God is everywhere). In John14:9-14, we have Jesus saying, "Whoever has seen me has seen the Father’ and “Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me”, and “The Father who dwells is in Me is doing His works.” In addition “And whatever you ask in my Name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in Me.” In addition, John 17:9, where Jesus says, “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for the ones you have given me, because they are yours, and everything of mine is yours and everything of yours is mine, and I have been glorified in them.” Add to this, that Jesus, in His Divine nature as The Second Person of the Blessed Trinity is eternally saying all of the above and is eternally giving all He has to the Father and therefore He is eternally giving His human body, and all of the pains accompanying that body, to the Father. Therefore, when in Mary’s womb, the Divine Person was doing the same.

Do you have any evidence to show my statements are not what God wants all to believe?
 
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