QUOTE=CopticChristian;9137193]
CopticChristian,
I hear what you are saying, but I ardently disagree. In order to agree with you I’d have to believe that the scriptures, as the inspired word of God, lay out different ways to salvation for different groups of people. For former Jews they can speak and believe, but for us gentiles it is something else entirely. To me, this is an illogical position. If it is a fact for former jews it is a fact for all followers of Christ.
What’s more, it is in line with tradition to take lessons from events that occurred within different contexts. Christ himself taught this way through the use of parables. We don’t look at the woman with the issue of blood and say that when Christ said your faith has made you whole he was talking to her specifically, so faith will only make you whole if you have an issue of blood.
DizzyMrs,
I understand you see things as you were taught. This is not my first rodeo. You are correct that there is one plan of salvation, the mystery hidden for all ages. I could click and paste however go to this link and view post #3 and you will see that I have explained this.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=615741
You are dodging the real issue by going to another topic. Stay with the letter to Romans. Yes Pauls speaks of Obedient Faith. He uses several different examples in the letter as those that manifested that Faith, Abraham, David…and he says that in Chapters 2 & 3 that works/circumcision and entry into the Old Covenant won’t do it and differentiates the Mosaic Law and the Moral Law by stating that the Gentiles who have not the Law are a law unto themselves and are circumcised of the heart. He also points out that the doer of the law will be “justified”…huh Protestant say I have Faith to be justified.
13for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
Read Romans 2 and note the doing…and then when you get to 25 Paul uses the word circumcision…
25For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.
Notice and count how many times Paul speaks of circumcision and uncircumcision. He is beating the Judaizing Christians over the head with the notion of Circumcision. He then goes on to develop the thought and then says…
27Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.
Code:
31Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.
Paul then like a good teacher uses examples and then answers the question as to sin. Notice how he questions living in sin. Why would he say die in sin and living sin. Notice death and life and then folllows with what the entire Christian community, recall he wrote to Christisn, what the entire community will acknowledge. They have been baptized. For if you have been baptized, recall he preceeded this with die in sin and living in sin and then immediately says…"Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized…that includeds Paul…Baptism.
1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7for he who has died is freed from sin.
This is in the middle of the 11 page letter. I don’t know about you but if I write a thesis, a letter, something of importance I usually get to the point right in the middle, not at the end. When you understand this you will then see that when he gets to Romans 10 that he is doing a summary…
Recall that in Romans 7 he beats them over the head again and points out that the Old Covenant is like a dead spouse and then points out in Romans 8 that the Holy Spirit will aid them.
Peace.
Christianity looks a like a Motley Crew as a whole.