Protestants who have a problem with Catholic Traditions

[zcharry]

With all due respect to my Catholic brethren, it is not correct to say that mortal sin can only be forgiven by God in the presence of a priest, (if this has been said )

According to the beliefs of the Catholic Church, mortal sin can be forgiven if one has perfect contrition. That is, if one is sorry for what they have done not only because they fear hell, but most of all, they are sorry because they love God.

For a Catholic Christian, because we beleive that Jesus instituted confession (John 20:21-23) and showed us that this is the normative way He wishes our sins to be forgiven, we then would need to go to confession as soon as was possible. For non-Catholic Christian, who through no fault of their own does not understand this, perfect contrition is always available.

[1452](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1452.htm’) When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.51

With this explanation of confession I would agree.
I

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We do not need to ask other Christians to pray for us, we can just pray to Him and we should. But we ALSO are told by scripture that we should pray for one another, and ask others to pray for us.

The confusing part for a non-Catholic Christian is they have lost the true understanding of the completeness of what belonging to the body of Christ is all about.

Through Christ, those who die in Him are alive not dead. Further, they continue on with that which we are told to do while still on earth. They are praying (Hebrews talks about the cloud of witnesses).

We can see in scripture that those who are no longer on earth are in fact, still concerned about those who are still on earth. That does not change. And through the grace of God, He allows the body of Christ to pray for one another. He does this by allowing the saints in heaven to hear the saints on earth asking for the saints in heaven to pray for them.

Someone else said this but I will do so again. The “Hail Mary” prayer is made up mostly of scripture. And what is not scripture, is simply Asking Mary to “pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death”.

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

If you are praying to Mary or any other Saint as a fellow Christian asking them to pray for you and you understand that they have no more power to influence God then the Christain in the pew next to you. I agree with your statement completely.

 

[zcharry]

With all due respect to my Catholic brethren, it is not correct to say that mortal sin can only be forgiven by God in the presence of a priest, (if this has been said )

According to the beliefs of the Catholic Church, mortal sin can be forgiven if one has perfect contrition. That is, if one is sorry for what they have done not only because they fear hell, but most of all, they are sorry because they love God.

For a Catholic Christian, because we beleive that Jesus instituted confession (John 20:21-23) and showed us that this is the normative way He wishes our sins to be forgiven, we then would need to go to confession as soon as was possible. For a non-Catholic Christian, who through no fault of their own does not understand this, perfect contrition is always available.

[1452](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1452.htm’) When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.51

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While there are many different reasons on why for perfect contrition for a Catholic Christian must include a firm resolution to go to a sacramental confession, one is because it is a rule of the Catholic church.

We of course believe the Church has the right to make the rules because Christ gave them the authority to do so (Matt16:19). Further, the reason for the rule is for the benefit of the person, not just some arbitrary rule.

In 1 Cor 11:27-29 we see that one who is in grave sin but partakes of the Eucharist anyway, brings judgement upon themselves. “Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.” These rules, with sound biblical reasons are in place for the help of people.

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

With this explanation of confession I would agree.

 

[jmcrae]

If you are praying to Mary or any other Saint as a fellow Christian asking them to pray for you and you understand that they have no more power to influence God then the Christain in the pew next to you. I agree with your statement completely.

What is your concept of Heaven? What do you expect you will be doing when you get to Heaven? (You are aware that the Book of Revelation is a word-picture of Heaven, right?)

Do you think you will know Jesus better then, than you do now?

Bear in mind, whatever we expect for ourselves when we get to Heaven, we need to realize, the people already in Heaven already have that.

It boggle my mind when I read things like that Mary can’t hear, Mary can’t act, Mary can’t speak to Jesus, when she is in Heaven. That sounds more like Hell, to me!!

 

[zcharry]

What is your concept of Heaven? What do you expect you will be doing when you get to Heaven? (You are aware that the Book of Revelation is a word-picture of Heaven, right?)

Do you think you will know Jesus better then, than you do now?

Bear in mind, whatever we expect for ourselves when we get to Heaven, we need to realize, the people already in Heaven already have that.

It boggle my mind when I read things like that Mary can’t hear, Mary can’t act, Mary can’t speak to Jesus, when she is in Heaven. That sounds more like Hell, to me!!

I say this with a loving heart.
You have no idea what heaven will be like and neither do I.
I could give you my understanding of it it but it would be just that my human reason of what heaven is. We as humans have no idea the power of God and to say what heaven will be like does a dishonor to God and his glory.
The Bible gives a few human descriptions of what heaven will be like but once again they are of human understanding. God is not human and we will have to what to see what His greatness has for us.

I never said Mary could not speak,hear,act… The person next to you in Church that you ask to pray for you can do all those things so I sure Mary can to. God tells us in the Bible that our prayers will not go unheard and I’m sure he hears Marys prayer as well.

God Bless

 

[jmcrae]

I never said Mary could not speak,hear,act.

No, that’s true, you didn’t - but a lot of people who deny her ability to intercede for us say that the reason she can’t pray for us is that she is blind, deaf, bound, and gagged. I’m glad you don’t think like that.

The person next to you in Church that you ask to pray for you can do all those things so I sure Mary can too.

At the very least.

God tells us in the Bible that our prayers will not go unheard and I’m sure he hears Mary’s prayer as well.

In fact, we have the proof that He does hear her prayers for others, in John 2.

 

[MariaG]

If you are praying to Mary or any other Saint as a fellow Christian asking them to pray for you and you understand that they have no more power to influence God then the Christain in the pew next to you. I agree with your statement completely.

Not quite.

But almost.

I would say that they do in fact have more power than the average person next to me in the pew.

I would liken the Saints in heaven to those really awesome people that are usually in everyone’s church(at least one ) who are really great prayer warriors But further than that, the Saints in heaven are no longer constrained by time as we are and therefore can literally pray without ceasing.

God bless,
Maria

 

[MariaG]

With this explanation of confession I would agree.

That would be the teaching of the Catholic Church

 

[DixiesFinest]

And when you guys do your Rosary thing, are like only 3 beads dedicated to our Heavenly Father and the rest of them Hail Marys? You can do what you want but I would rather hail Jesus Christ the Son of God who bore our sin and died for me at Calvary. Thanks

“That Rosary thing?” Oh, you must mean the Rosary mysteries, you know, where we MEDITATE ON JESVS CHRIST…you must mean that, yea, its not like we ever think about the Son of God while we MEDITATE ON HIS LIFE.

nor is she any more “Holy” than us as your doctrine teaches and as scripture does not. Yes she is special, but so are you and me.

Yea, true, I mean, Our Lady ONLY carried JESVS CHRIST, The Word made Flesh, GOD INCARNATE in her womb, no biggie, no different from other women.

How about your praying to Mary, and bizarre acknowledgment of her as more than just a vessel used by God and a follower of Christ.

Bizarre to all those who think Christianity started sometime in the early to late 1500’s…the earliest cited work of a Church Father referring to Our Lady as the “theotokos” (God-Bearer) is Dionysios of Alexandria in the early 200’s.

Get you facts straight. Thanks.

 

[St_Violet]

tfor those who believe praying to Mary and to the Saints is wrong, do you guys also believe that those who are in heaven are ignorant to what is going on , on earth?

 

[Cat]

Actually, St_Violet, most Protestant believe that those in heaven have no perception of what’s happening on earth.

This understanding is based on verses that describe heaven as a place where there are “no more tears.” Protestants think that once we are in heaven, we will be caught up in adoration of the Lord Jesus and all the sadness and the sinful things of earth will be gone. We won’t even be interested in them anymore, as we are lost in love and praise of Jesus.

Protestants also believe, based on the verses in the Old Testament, that it is sinful to try to speak to those who have died. Yes, we all know that those who die in Christ are alive. But they’re still not part of this earth any longer, and Protestants believe that means that we are no longer to have contact with them, again, based on the Old Testament admonitions against contacting spirits of the dead.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Actually, St_Violet, most Protestant believe that those in heaven have no perception of what’s happening on earth.

This understanding is based on verses that describe heaven as a place where there are “no more tears.” Protestants think that once we are in heaven, we will be caught up in adoration of the Lord Jesus and all the sadness and the sinful things of earth will be gone. We won’t even be interested in them anymore, as we are lost in love and praise of Jesus.

And then they explain away the passage in Hebrews about us being surrounded by a GREAT cloud of witnesses, and the passage in Revelation where the martyrs are asking God how long it will be before their blood is avenged.

Protestants also believe, based on the verses in the Old Testament, that it is sinful to try to speak to those who have died. Yes, we all know that those who die in Christ are alive. But they’re still not part of this earth any longer, and Protestants believe that means that we are no longer to have contact with them, again, based on the Old Testament admonitions against contacting spirits of the dead.

I just ask “Are they dead, or are they alive in Christ?” Are we trying to conjure them back up? No. We don’t really want them to appear before us, we just want their prayers. The Communion of Saints was one of the first Catholic doctrines that I accepted while still saying to anyone who asked, “Now, I’m** not about to become Catholic**, but…”