Protestants, who have been around awhile, question about the Virgin Mary

[david_ruiz]

So you are saying once she confessed “be it done unto me, according to Thy will”, she was cleansed? Then what you are saying contradicts your point that Jesus resided in the womb of a sinner.

No.I asked if an OT or NT saint confesses their sins according to the proper rite/sacrament are their sins wiped clean ,forgiven ?

 

[rinnie]

I am applying the generic meaning of immaculate conception, meaning only one thing and one thing only ,Jesus was sinless. He was sinless at conception, birth, early life -midlife, to the end ,when He took on our sins, upon himself. He was in a sinful world (and I say humbly in a “fallen” Mary), yet was not tainted but prevailed.

David what are you talking about what is the generic meaning of the IC mean?

I asked you before and I will ask you again how do you feel your teaching trump the teaching of the Apostles?

Where are your sources? Why do you refuse to give them??

Where does the Immaculate Comception mean Jesus was sinless? Where is this generic teaching you talk of come from? The Church? Your Church? The bible Show me where these wild teaching’s you are trying to show come from.

 

[rinnie]

No.I asked if an OT or NT saint confesses their sins according to the proper rite/sacrament are their sins wiped clean ,forgiven ?

David how could a O.T Saint confess their sins when the sacrament of confession was not made possible until Christ died and made it possible for the Priests to forgive sins in his name?

And also John Paul II is up for being a Saint. And yes his sins were forgiven in the sacrament of confession.

He went to confession every day for years before his death.

But what does this have to do with the Blessed Mother being a Saint and made sinless by God?

 

[david_ruiz]

great suggestion, but why skip Gal.4:3? It has the why and the wherefore for v4; up until then we were enslaved to the elemental powers of the world, in v4 God sends His Son born of a woman born under the law. This places both Jesus and Mary together under the law, not within a nature of sin, it also prooves that Mary and Joseph were married even though the account of their wedding is not given in the Gospels. But, in v5 we are certainly ransomed so that we might receive what? Adoption into this Holy family, becoming true children by proof, and so legitmate “heirs” as a Son or Daughter. All legitimate children must have a legitimate Father and a legitimate Mother. v7 is our title to our inheritance.

Yes, and Lk 1v48: “For” means because as “For” means because in Col.1v16, in v15 Christ can’t be the firstborn of all creation can He, because Adam was and v15 can’t have a definite meaning until we read 16, “For in Him all things were created…” Now we can see v15 perfectly; He is the firstborn of all creation. Why Lk.1v47, because Lk 1vs 48:“He has looked upon the lowliness of His handmaiden henceforth all generations shall call me blessed”. He looked upon her lowliness not sinfullness.

Col1:13, 14 we are also delivered, this time by transferrence into the Kingdom of His Beloved Son; the Only Begotten Son it is fair to say, no doubt, so The Beloved Son is Begotten in and of His Mother in His Kingdom and in Whom (v14) we have redemption and forgiveness of sins. Col:1vs16-20 is the Magnificient Preemminence of God the Father and the Son, and in vs.19 where did it please Him in Whom all the fullness was pleased to dwell, dwell?1JnC1vs:14. And The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. In Col.1v21 those alienated and hostile of mind because of their evil deeds , are reconciled in both His fleshly body which is from Mary, (“Blessed is the fruit of thy womb”) and through His death. God Bless you too.

Their is no marriage in heaven amongst humans There are no mother/brothers/ sisters/ fathers ,but all are children of God ,bride of Christ .These are earthly sentiments.All relationships here are a foreshadow of the fullfillment we have and will have more fully in heaven with the Lord,the one who sticks closer than a brother .I think we are His all in all also ,for whoever does His will is His brother/sister .mother . We do not have a heavenly mother .Christ is our all in all. We do not have a Queen .Christ is our all in all.

 

[rinnie]

Their is no marriage in heaven amongst humans There are no mother/brothers/ sisters/ fathers ,but all are children of God ,bride of Christ .These are earthly sentiments.All relationships here are a foreshadow of the fullfillment we have and will have more fully in heaven with the Lord,the one who sticks closer than a brother .I think we are His all in all also ,for whoever does His will is His brother/sister .mother . We do not have a heavenly mother .Christ is our all in all. We do not have a Queen .Christ is our all in all.

David how do you know this. Yes I agree that there is no marriage in heaven. But where is this teaching of yours that my Father will not be my Father in heaven. Or I will not know my Brother in heaven?

Where do you get this from. It is news to me. Could you show me scripture, since of course thats what you go by only?

I know there is no marriage, the bible tells me so. But where does it say I will not know my earthly Father or brother and they will no longer be??

 

[david_ruiz]

David how could a O.T Saint confess their sins when the sacrament of confession was not made possible until Christ died and made it possible for the Priests to forgive sins in his name?

Well, in discussions of the sacrament ,and the need for a priest ,I have heard it mentioned by Catholics that it is also found in the OT,in forshadow ,but certainly there was a method ,rite ,a sacrifice for sin cleansing,covering in the old…Remember ,they taught that without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.Were they wrong ?

But what does this have to do with the Blessed Mother being a Saint and made sinless by God?

 

[david_ruiz]

David how do you know this. Yes I agree that there is no marriage in heaven. But where is this teaching of yours that my Father will not be my Father in heaven. Or I will not know my Brother in heaven?

Where do you get this from. It is news to me. Could you show me scripture, since of course thats what you go by only?

I know there is no marriage, the bible tells me so. But where does it say I will not know my earthly Father or brother and they will no longer be??

Please don’t misunderstand .I never said we will not know each other did I. It is a spiritual realm ,and those souls who have been washed in the blood of the lamb have one Father .My earthly father, bless him, will have not have the same jurisdiction in heaven over me . It is a whole other kingdom…Again ,look at those scriptures I quoted where one does does His will is His brother sister mother etc.or how is Jseus both Son and everlatsing Father(Isaiah) .

 

[rinnie]

Well, in discussions of the sacrament ,and the need for a priest ,I have heard it mentioned by Catholics that it is also found in the OT,in forshadow ,but certainly there was a method ,rite ,a sacrifice for sin cleansing,covering in the old…Remember ,they taught that without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.Were they wrong ?

 

[rinnie]

Please don’t misunderstand .I never said we will not know each other did I. It is a spiritual realm ,and those souls who have been washed in the blood of the lamb have one Father .My earthly father, bless him, will have not have the same jurisdiction in heaven over me . It is a whole other kingdom…Again ,look at those scriptures I quoted where one does does His will is His brother sister mother etc.or how is Jseus both Son and everlatsing Father(Isaiah) .

What in thw world are you talking about? And all my life have had a heavenly Father and earthly Father.

My earthly Father never had the Jurisdiction of my heavenly Father evem on this earth. ANd it was not even a whole other kingdom.

Jesus is Son and everlasting Father because he is God for goodness sakes.

Well I gotta hit the bed. ITs late.

But David maybe tommorow you can give me some scriptual or Apostolic teaching for the things you are saying. That would be real nice!

 

[rinnie]

Please don’t misunderstand .I never said we will not know each other did I. It is a spiritual realm ,and those souls who have been washed in the blood of the lamb have one Father .My earthly father, bless him, will have not have the same jurisdiction in heaven over me . It is a whole other kingdom…Again ,look at those scriptures I quoted where one does does His will is His brother sister mother etc.or how is Jseus both Son and everlatsing Father(Isaiah) .

By the way let me get this right. So we will all know each other. But when I see my brother I iwill not remember he was my earthly brother? Right?

ANd when I see my Papa I will know Him. but not really, because I will not know him as my earthly Papa riight?

Who will he be? My Mama And my bro will be my sis, And my sis will be my car…

 

[JustaServant]

By the way let me get this right. So we will all know each other. But when I see my brother I iwill not remember he was my earthly brother? Right?

ANd when I see my Papa I will know Him. but not really, because I will not know him as my earthly Papa riight?

Who will he be? My Mama And my bro will be my sis, And my sis will be my car…

My mother the car.
(a legendary bad sitcom for you guys under 40).

 

[rinnie]

My mother the car.
(a legendary bad sitcom for you guys under 40).

Ah, sometimes we need to lighten up these posts

I was thinking of david before I went to bad last night and the Joke came to my mind of Andy. Now this part is true, my earthly Fathers real name is Andy, And while I pray daily for his soul I do believe he is in heaven now with God. But here is the joke! I think it fits what david and I were talking about.

3 people were getting baptised. But before the preacher would baptise them they had to answer a biblical question.

So the first person when up and the preacher said what is the name of the Mother of Christ, The first person responded Mary. The preacher said correct and baptised him.

The second person went up and the preacher asked what is the name of one of the Apostles. The second person said Peter. The preacher said correct and baptised him.

Now the third person approached and the preacher asked what is the first name of the Son of God. The third person said ANDY. The preacher said ANDY Where in the world did you hear that. The Man responded, Sir we sing it every Sunday in Church.

ANDY walks with me, ANDY talks with me, Andy tells me I am his own.

 

[Miriam1947]

Ah, sometimes we need to lighten up these posts

I was thinking of david before I went to bad last night and the Joke came to my mind of Andy. Now this part is true, my earthly Fathers real name is Andy, And while I pray daily for his soul I do believe he is in heaven now with God. But here is the joke! I think it fits what david and I were talking about.

3 people were getting baptised. But before the preacher would baptise them they had to answer a biblical question.

So the first person when up and the preacher said what is the name of the Mother of Christ, The first person responded Mary. The preacher said correct and baptised him.

The second person went up and the preacher asked what is the name of one of the Apostles. The second person said Peter. The preacher said correct and baptised him.

Now the third person approached and the preacher asked what is the first name of the Son of God. The third person said ANDY. The preacher said ANDY Where in the world did you hear that. The Man responded, Sir we sing it every Sunday in Church.

ANDY walks with me, ANDY talks with me, Andy tells me I am his own.

 

[kellerk]

No.I asked if an OT or NT saint confesses their sins according to the proper rite/sacrament are their sins wiped clean ,forgiven ?

You are answering my question with a question. I am sorry, but you have not made clear your reply to my question and are trying to send me off in another direction. If you are saying “No”, to my question…Did Jesus reside in the womb of a sinner? then you have definately contradicted yourself. If you are saying, “Yes”, Mary was cleansed of all sin (while Jesus resided in her womb), then explain your quote…

“He was in a sinful world (and I say humbly in a “fallen” Mary), yet was not tainted but prevailed.”

The only other option would be to say, she was cleansed of her personal sin but not the stain of original sin. If I could just understand what exactly you are trying to say, I could proceed on, until then, I will not respond to any further questions from you.

Please forgive my inexperience, I must be careful not to get confused or to misrepresent the CC teachings.

 

[brumano]

Their is no marriage in heaven amongst humans There are no mother/brothers/ sisters/ fathers ,but all are children of God ,bride of Christ .These are earthly sentiments.All relationships here are a foreshadow of the fullfillment we have and will have more fully in heaven with the Lord,the one who sticks closer than a brother .I think we are His all in all also ,for whoever does His will is His brother/sister .mother . We do not have a heavenly mother .Christ is our all in all. We do not have a Queen .Christ is our all in all.

Well just to take one point at a time; none of us have anyone or even the Lord unless we acknowledge Him, and He Himself is not God alone. He is the Son.

 

[wheels10]

No.I asked if an OT or NT saint confesses their sins according to the proper rite/sacrament are their sins wiped clean ,forgiven ?

Doesn’t look like sins could be forgiven using the methods provided in the OT.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of the good things to come, not the very image of the things; by the selfsame sacrifices which they offer continually every year, can never make the comers thereunto perfect: 2 For then they would have ceased to be offered: because the worshippers once cleansed should have no conscience of sin any longer: 3 But in them there is made a commemoration of sins every year. 4 For it is impossible that with the blood of oxen and goats sin should be taken away.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith: Sacrifice and oblation thou wouldest not: but a body thou hast fitted to me:
6 Holocausts for sin did not please thee.
7 Then said I: Behold I come: in the head of the book it is written of me: that I should do thy will, O God.
8 In saying before, Sacrifices, and oblations, and holocausts for sin thou wouldest not, neither are they pleasing to thee, which are offered according to the law. 9 Then said I: Behold, I come to do thy will, O God: he taketh away the first, that he may establish that which followeth. 10 In the which will, we are sanctified by the oblation of the body of Jesus Christ once.
11 And every priest indeed standeth daily ministering, and often offering the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this man offering one sacrifice for sins, for ever sitteth on the right hand of God, 13 From henceforth expecting, until his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one oblation he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 And the Holy Ghost also doth testify this to us

 

[wheels10]

No.I asked if an OT or NT saint confesses their sins according to the proper rite/sacrament are their sins wiped clean ,forgiven ?

What did Jesus say is the greatest commandment?

 

[david_ruiz]

What did Jesus say is the greatest commandment?

Traditional answer is love Him with all, then your neighbor, but none of this is possible unless the obvious greater command is obeyed - to have eternal life, to believe on Him whom the Father has sent, to be born again, make one’s election sure.

 

[david_ruiz]

Doesn’t look like sins could be forgiven using the methods provided in the OT.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of the good things to come, not the very image of the things; by the selfsame sacrifices which they offer continually every year, can never make the comers thereunto perfect: 2 For then they would have ceased to be offered: because the worshippers once cleansed should have no conscience of sin any longer: 3 But in them there is made a commemoration of sins every year. 4 For it is impossible that with the blood of oxen and goats sin should be taken away.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith: Sacrifice and oblation thou wouldest not: but a body thou hast fitted to me:
6 Holocausts for sin did not please thee.
7 Then said I: Behold I come: in the head of the book it is written of me: that I should do thy will, O God.
8 In saying before, Sacrifices, and oblations, and holocausts for sin thou wouldest not, neither are they pleasing to thee, which are offered according to the law. 9 Then said I: Behold, I come to do thy will, O God: he taketh away the first, that he may establish that which followeth. 10 In the which will, we are sanctified by the oblation of the body of Jesus Christ once.
11 And every priest indeed standeth daily ministering, and often offering the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this man offering one sacrifice for sins, for ever sitteth on the right hand of God, 13 From henceforth expecting, until his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one oblation he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 And the Holy Ghost also doth testify this to us

Look deeper,other scriptures.Theye were forgiven. They were justified.They could be cleansed.

 

[kellerk]

Look deeper,other scriptures.Theye were forgiven. They were justified.They could be cleansed.

So you say, yes she was cleansed but yet was a sinner???