Protestants who spread blatantly false information

[zz912]

It seems your more upset that he got dates wrong, rather than his accusation on Augustine inventing Catholicism

If you can’t even get simple facts correct, why should anyone listen to you on more complex topics? (it’s one thing to just make one mistake, but he was blatantly wrong about so many dates and issues, it’s not even worth taking time to refute. He hasn’t made a substantive case nor argument)

“You have been faithful in a few things. I will put you in charge of many things.”

 

[Randy_Carson]

Below is a link to a video from a Baptist speaker sitting up in front of a lecture hall talking about the early Church Fathers. The pertinent information starts at the 36:00 mark in the video.

This guy is so inaccurate it almost makes me believe he is doing this intentionally. A simple Google search on my iPhone could prove this guy wrong. For one, he places Origen as a writer in the second century when we get a vast majority of his stuff in the third century. He then places St. Irenaeus as a strictly third century Christian writer even though we all know he wrote in the middle and latter parts of the second century. He then places St. John Chrysostom as an author writing right after Irenaeus in the third century (even though Chrysostom wasn’t born until the mid-fourth century).

All the while he is attributing these guys as making up dogma as they go along, completely ignoring the writings of St. Ignatius of Antioch, St. Clement of Rome, St. Polycarp of Smyrna and St. Justin Martyr - writers who are writing too early for comfort for this guy.

He then has the gall to suggest that St. Augustine invented Roman Catholicism in the fifth century.

How do we save people from things like this? Especially uninformed Catholics (who this guy admits to converting to the Baptist denomination later on in the video).

youtube.com/watch?v=5w2on02sDwY&t=36m0s

There was a time when this guy could get away with this sort of thing. But not today.

Anyone with an Internet connection and a browser can Google some of the names he referenced in his talk, and at that point, the discrepancies will become obvious.

So, let’s trust that some of his audience will decide to do some additional reading on the ECF’s who prove that Catholic Church is a fraud…they are in for a bit of a shock when they finally starting reading on their own.

 

[Porknpie]

There was a time when this guy could get away with this sort of thing. But not today.

Anyone with an Internet connection and a browser can Google some of the names he referenced in his talk, and at that point, the discrepancies will become obvious.

So, let’s trust that some of his audience will decide to do some additional reading on the ECF’s who prove that Catholic Church is a fraud…they are in for a bit of a shock when they finally starting reading on their own.

Wonder what Mr. Pastor will say when told that the bible itself is a Catholic book?

 

[oneofmany]

My sister recently went to a friend’s 100th birthday. First she had everyone come to the church service since the reception was in the church hall. It was Reformation Sunday and my sister had to sit through the minister slamming Catholics for all the errors they taught and why the Reformation came about.

Needless to say my sister wasn’t too pleased but she didn’t want to leave and make a scene. She said, “Catholics don’t do that to Protestants, we only have our services.” She didn’t know why it was necessary for them to do it. I guess if you go to some churches on Reformation Sunday you will hear that, sad.

I told her too bad she didn’t have some pamphlets to hand out to the group afterwards about the Catholic Church so she could tell them what the truth is.

I went to a non-denominational church with my husband before we married. We dated for 3 years so I went there for quite awhile and even after we married. He came back to the Catholic Church when we married but his son still went to that church so we took him. I only heard the Church slammed about twice in all that time and only once from the pulpit. I think non-denominational is better than most Protestant churches who need to prove why they broke off from the Catholic Church. It was a small church though so that might have made a difference.

 

[Goya]

Well Tide, you certainly stated a good case in your comments there.

One of the things that struck me is his remarks about how about half his audience is “ex-Catholics”, which is not all that surprising since there are some who themselves are ignorant of their faith and history (as I was for about 35 years) and so when someone like this fellow comes along, with a Bible in hand and quoting scripture as he does, it gives the impression of accuracy and credibility in spite of his errors.

I noticed that he totally botched his teaching on what transubstantiation is since we know it takes place at the consecration and not upon reception. He goes on to state that Paul never taught that, which is completely wrong in the context of the following passages.
***1st Corinthians 10:16-17

“16 The chalice of benediction, which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? And the bread, which we break, is it not the partaking of the body of the Lord? 17 For we, being many, are one bread, one body, all that partake of one bread.”

1st Corinthians 11:23-30

"23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread. 24 And giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you: this do for the commemoration of me. 25 In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.

26 For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come. 27 Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. 30 Therefore are there many infirm and weak among you, and many sleep. "

***None of that would apply if St. Paul was speaking of a symbolic Eucharist. It defies all simple logic because you cannot become guilty of someone’s body and blood by abusing a symbol.

You’re right that he seems to have ignored Justin Martyr which I bring up in my blog article What Was Authentic Early Christian Worship Really Like?

Great post, CM! (as usual, I should add…).

The only exception I take, is in your taking this guy’s claims at face value–that is, that most of his congregation is ‘ex-Catholics’.

I don’t buy it.

Just another hot-aired fire and brimstone bible thumper, making baseless claims about Catholics–even those in his own congregation.

For all the protestants’ claims about disgruntled Catholics leaving the Church, I should know a thousand such.

I know exactly one (whose wife is protestant btw, and hasn’t even really renounced his Catholicism; just stopped going to mass, and started attending her church).

If I thought long and hard, I might be able to come up with one or 2 others.

But I know and have known, hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Catholics. I know many stop going to mass, many stop being active in the Church, many become ‘Chreasters’…before coming back.

But very few, who leave the folds, and become full on protestants.

The older I get, the more convinced I become that this is a bogus myth, promoted by protestants (along with so many other lies), in hopes that reality will follow the myth.

Just ain’t so, in my experience.

FWIW.

 

[Church_Militant]

Great post, CM! (as usual, I should add…).

The only exception I take, is in your taking this guy’s claims at face value–that is, that most of his congregation is ‘ex-Catholics’.

I don’t buy it.

Just another hot-aired fire and brimstone bible thumper, making baseless claims about Catholics–even those in his own congregation.

For all the protestants’ claims about disgruntled Catholics leaving the Church, I should know a thousand such.

I know exactly one (whose wife is protestant btw, and hasn’t even really renounced his Catholicism; just stopped going to mass, and started attending her church).

If I thought long and hard, I might be able to come up with one or 2 others.

But I know and have known, hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Catholics. I know many stop going to mass, many stop being active in the Church, many become ‘Chreasters’…before coming back.

But very few, who leave the folds, and become full on protestants.

The older I get, the more convinced I become that this is a bogus myth, promoted by protestants (along with so many other lies), in hopes that reality will follow the myth.

Just ain’t so, in my experience.

FWIW.

Y’know, I actually agree with you on this.
I mean we don’t know how many people this dude has in his “congregation”. It could be only 2 or 3 people in which case his statement might be true, but either way, he need not be so overjoyed by it because many, like me, discover the deception (even if it is well intentioned) and come home to the faith. (See My Testimony)

Either way, there is little likelihood that any of those listening to him speak have the sense to check on what he has said…and since he makes his statements without citing any sources, he makes that even more unlikely (and again…deceptive)

Asking for citations of source is almost always a good way to debunk these kinds of speakers because they either can’t or won’t do so which, to the honest and logical person, raises all manner of http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/redflag-1.gif http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/redflag-2.png http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/RedFlag.jpg

 

[CarmelJerome]

It’s really hard to understand how in today’s access to information, they can believe all that garbage. They close their minds to the TRUTH and continue to spread lies. If someone tells me the moon is made of green cheese, I’m gonna research until I find out if it’s really true before I book a flight there! ( I love cheese). God Bless, Memaw

I'm angered by the lies about Pius XII which continue to be spread by publishers - but the same thing holds, that there is a lack of a desire for truth. People who only wish to confirm their hatred of the Church are not invincible ignorant but culpably so.

 

[Cincinnatus1788]

Non-Catholics don’t have a monopoly on ignorance. I’ve heard some whoppers here on CAF.

Recently someone said that John the Baptists is only quoted in John’s Gospel and that Nicodemus had a conversation with John the Baptist in the Bible. It is a good bet that when someone says the word “Modernism” they don’t have a clue what they are talking about. Limbo, physical vs real presence in the Eucharist… the list goes on.

Sometimes I think it isn’t even ignorance but people just making stuff up. We need to take the log out of our own eye and knowing when not to speak is sometimes a great virtue.

-Tim-

Hi TimothyH; when you say that you have seen some real whoppers on CAF, were those from ‘members’ or ‘staff’? If those allegedly were from staff, I find it hard to believe that the respective staff member could not justify his/her claim; if it was from a mere member such as myself it is much easier to visualize bad information (a.k.a whoppers) making it into a post. Whatever the case, I pray that no person is intentionally trying to mislead anyone for whatever the reason. -v/r

 

[Church_Militant]

I’m angered by the lies about Pius XII which continue to be spread by publishers - but the same thing holds, that there is a lack of a desire for truth. People who only wish to confirm their hatred of the Church are not invincible ignorant but culpably so.

Yeah, that’s another one that I have encountered and it resulted in the following blog posts of mine.
Someone Has Lied to You About Our Pope Pius XII
Lauds for Pope Pius XII and the Catholic Church in WWII

 

[oneofmany]

If someone posts some outlandish things against the church on sites I always ask them for the link to where they copy and pasted it. Of course, it turns out to be from a hate site.

I just tell them it’s from a hate site and that usually shuts them down. I think they know it.

 

[HagartheHappy]

This man, Les Feldick is pretty fringe. Hes called a hyperdispensationalist and hes in his 80’s. He filmed alot of bible studies from the 90’s to 2009. He is semi retired. I had never eared im till now. At least I’ll beware when somebody quotes him . Thanks fir sharing!
GR

 

[oneofmany]

Yes, sometimes all you need to do is to Google the person, then you find out they are fringe who operates out of their basement somewhere. It’s usually easy to show people who they really are.