Protestants, why are you here?

[Peter_J]

If you’ll excuse me for asking a question that’s been asked before (in various forms) why are you (Protestants) here?

I often hear Protestants posters say that they’re here because they like conversing with Catholics – which I definitely respect, but it seems to me like an incomplete answer. Put it this way: I have many times chatted with Methodists [resp. Prebyterians, etc] both on and off the internet, but I’ve never felt like in order to do so I needed to sign-up for an account on a Methodist [resp. Prebyterian, etc] website.

So I guess the specific question I’d like to ask Protestant posters is this: Do you feel like there’s a dearth of Catholics in your life (online and/or offline) which you try to compensate for by coming here?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

If you’ll excuse me for asking a question that’s been asked before (in various forms) why are you (Protestants) here?

I often hear Protestants posters say that they’re here because they like conversing with Catholics – which I definitely respect, but it seems to me like an incomplete answer. Put it this way: I have many times chatted with Methodists [resp. Prebyterians, etc] both on and off the internet, but I’ve never felt like in order to do so I needed to sign-up for an account on a Methodist [resp. Prebyterian, etc] website.

So I guess the specific question I’d like to ask Protestant posters is this: Do you feel like there’s a dearth of Catholics in your life (online and/or offline) which you try to compensate for by coming here?

I’m obviously not Protestant but I think, Peter, that there are reasons for several types of Protestants for coming here. Folks like high-church Anglicans, for example, have very few quality message boards with which to converse with people who enjoy a more catholic flavor of liturgy and worship. Also, Christians that are passionate about history and who might be fascinated with Catholicism from a more historical perspective might want to chat here as well. And of course, there are some Lutherans and Methodists, Baptists, etc. who are seekers and feel the call of the Holy Spirit to explore and investigate Catholicism before jumping into an RCIA setting. The message boards in some denominations are fairly weak also whereas CAF is superb in many ways.

But there are those Protestants I meet in here (names withheld to protect the innocent as per Joe Friday/Dragnet) who are combative, want to fight, have an axe to grind, and are just plain nasty. They usually are former Catholics who are looking for a fight.

But I think most are either earnest, honest, and caring seekers or historical buffs…For example, I’m a Roman Catholic but a bit of a Reformation buff and an Anglophile. Talking with some people in here about those topics is stimulating and fascinating to me.

 

[Departed_Light]

I found the site interesting so I joined.

 

[Korotkov]

I find this site interesting and the black comedy here is good too!

 

[emeraldcoast]

Hi Peter,

As an Anglican, I first came here with questions that were coming up when my children first began attending a Roman Catholic School. I believe that I stay here to share and learn from my Christian brothers and sisters. I think that also since the Anglican/Episcopal Church comes up so much on this site that it is probably good to hear from those of us that are members of the Episcopal Church.

God Bless!

 

[PFugate]

I am a protestant that finds herself in the process of counseling with a young Catholic single Mom who is a repentant Catholic. I am part of a group of Protestants that God has put in her life. Why God chose to put mainly Protestants in her life to intimately encourage and walk with her through life lately, I do not know. But we encourage her often to also try to bond with family at her own Catholic Church as well. But for whatever reason, she is hesitant to trust easily. She has however allowed us into her circle. So whatever God wants. Those of our Protestant circle that are encouraging her are all pro-Catholic as well. So it works. She says that we are the first Protestants that she has met that support her in her Catholic faith.

So if I need to know more specifics about certain Catholic doctrines or beliefs, I research them here so as to more fully understand what the Catholic faith teaches. That helps me understand where this young mother is coming from and how to respect and support her conscience while at the same time maximizing on what we believe the same in. Its a great education for both sides, and has been very interesting and confirming.

I am having fun with the research as I am finding that as a Protestant, the Catholic tenants are more in agreement with what I understand than not. And in areas where there are different ideas, I can see where the ideas were arrived at and am content with that.

I have other friends that are Catholics and we have great fun and encouragement together. My desire is to understand and encourage, and to help break down the unnecessary walls that have come up from the past.

I feel that this World is getting more and more hostile to Jesus, and we need all serious Christians on deck to do whatever God shows us to do. And so we need each other desperately.

I hope that helps.

PFugate

 

[JonNC]

If you’ll excuse me for asking a question that’s been asked before (in various forms) why are you (Protestants) here?

So I guess the specific question I’d like to ask Protestant posters is this: Do you feel like there’s a dearth of Catholics in your life (online and/or offline) which you try to compensate for by coming here?

Well, Peter, I think I know one or two Catholics where I live and work. But then, with Bob Jones to the south and Billy Graham not far away, it shouldn’t be surprising.
That, though was not the reason for joining, and staying as long as I have, to my wife’s occasional irritation.

Originally post by gurneyhalleck1:
Also, Christians that are passionate about history and who might be fascinated with Catholicism from a more historical perspective might want to chat here as well. And of course, there are some Lutherans and Methodists, Baptists, etc. who are seekers and feel the call of the Holy Spirit to explore and investigate Catholicism before jumping into an RCIA setting. The message boards in some denominations are fairly weak also whereas CAF is superb in many ways.
But I think most are either earnest, honest, and caring seekers or historical buffs…For example, I’m a Roman Catholic but a bit of a Reformation buff and an Anglophile. Talking with some people in here about those topics is stimulating and fascinating to me

I fall mainly in this category - somewhere. And one of the curious things that has happened is a developing interest in Orthodoxy, and it’s teachings that seem, at least on the surface, somewhat easier to reconcile with what I believe than some Catholic teachings.

Needless to say, I really enjoy conversations with people here, with a special inclusion of some of the posters on this thread.

Jon

 

[O.S.Luke]

I was invited.

 

[Thorwald]

If you’ll excuse me for asking a question that’s been asked before (in various forms) why are you (Protestants) here?

I often hear Protestants posters say that they’re here because they like conversing with Catholics – which I definitely respect, but it seems to me like an incomplete answer. Put it this way: I have many times chatted with Methodists [resp. Prebyterians, etc] both on and off the internet, but I’ve never felt like in order to do so I needed to sign-up for an account on a Methodist [resp. Prebyterian, etc] website.

So I guess the specific question I’d like to ask Protestant posters is this: Do you feel like there’s a dearth of Catholics in your life (online and/or offline) which you try to compensate for by coming here?

I love visiting places where no one wants me. I think I’ve finally found ‘my home’.

 

[Guyonthestreet]

I love visiting places where no one wants me. I think I’ve finally found ‘my home’.

Ditto

 

[Louie1983]

If you’ll excuse me for asking a question that’s been asked before (in various forms) why are you (Protestants) here?

I often hear Protestants posters say that they’re here because they like conversing with Catholics – which I definitely respect, but it seems to me like an incomplete answer. Put it this way: I have many times chatted with Methodists [resp. Prebyterians, etc] both on and off the internet, but I’ve never felt like in order to do so I needed to sign-up for an account on a Methodist [resp. Prebyterian, etc] website.

So I guess the specific question I’d like to ask Protestant posters is this: Do you feel like there’s a dearth of Catholics in your life (online and/or offline) which you try to compensate for by coming here?

I believe they are here for many reasons but 2 or 3 may be the biggest reasons. Such as:

• They want to learn more about the catholic Faith.
• They want to know what other people think about their own faith. I.e protestant wants to know what catholics think about protestantism.
• They genuinely enjoy discussing/debating the faith and the differeces that separate the denominations.
• The obvious one is they don’t agree with the catholic faith and wish to debate it and it’s teachings.

 

[Thorwald]

I believe they are here for many reasons but 2 or 3 may be the biggest reasons. Such as:

• They want to learn more about the catholic Faith.
• They want to know what other people think about their own faith. I.e protestant wants to know what catholics think about protestantism.
• They genuinely enjoy discussing/debating the faith and the differeces that separate the denominations.
• The obvious one is they don’t agree with the catholic faith and wish to debate it and it’s teachings.

Or…They believe in The Bible, and want to know where all of the other stuff came from.

 

[Louie1983]

Or…They believe in The Bible, and want to know where all of the other stuff came from.

If you don’t know the answer to that, then you clearly don’t know your bible…

God bless.

 

[wmscott]

Well, Peter, I think I know one or two Catholics where I live and work. But then, with Bob Jones to the south and Billy Graham not far away, it shouldn’t be surprising.
That, though was not the reason for joining, and staying as long as I have, to my wife’s occasional irritation.

I fall mainly in this category - somewhere. And one of the curious things that has happened is a developing interest in Orthodoxy, and it’s teachings that seem, at least on the surface, somewhat easier to reconcile with what I believe than some Catholic teachings.

Needless to say, I really enjoy conversations with people here, with a special inclusion of some of the posters on this thread.

Jon

Jon, I have read a few of your responses in several threads and what I have noticed in your posts is that you are honest and quick to correct those Protestants who are out of line and that try to spread falsehoods about the Catholic Faith. I appreciate your Christian charity. Thanks and keep it up.

 

[Peter_J]

Nice bunch of posts here. I’m not going to try to respond to each individually right now, but I would like to say a “Welcome to the forum” to PFugate.

BTW, O.S. Luke, has anyone yet invited you to become Catholic?

I was invited.

 

[Thorwald]

If you don’t know the answer to that, then you clearly don’t know your bible…

God bless.

I know my Bible very well, thank you. Please tell me the scripture(s) that supports the following;

1. The rosary.
2. The acceptance of man-made saints, by God.
3. The need for idols in your church.
4. The Catholic Church (as it is today) = ‘His Church’, whereby, we can change the Word of God, in order to achieve this.
5. The need for Israelites to be subjected to the ‘understanding’ of the Word of God, by gentiles (ie. Israelites must now receive their ‘wisdom’ from the Catholic Church instead of being ‘Gods’…by whom the Word of God came to all mankind.)
6. The ‘elevation of Mary’ to the point that she can make intercession for us.
7. That we should pray to carnally dead people.
8. That we should speak in a language that the commoners in the congregation in attendance cannot understand (Latin). The scriptures tell us, that those that do this, are ‘patting themselves on the back’ [my words for self-glorification], but the general congregation has no idea what is being said, and therefore receives no wisdom/enlightenment.
9. …and the list goes on…

 

[Louie1983]

I know my Bible very well, thank you. Please tell me the scripture(s) that supports the following;

1. The rosary.
   **Well the archangel greeted the virgin mary by saying “hail, full of grace the lord is with the”. And when mary visits her cousin elizabeth, elizabeth says “blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb”. You see where the hail mary comes from? I don’t need to explain where the our father comes from to you do i?

You clearly lack the knowledge of what the rosary is. It’s the prayer that focuses predominantly on the life of Jesus Christ and important events in his life. To you it seems like vain and repititious prayer, but it’s not. **

1. The acceptance of man-made saints, by God.
   This is easy.

**- Eph. 3:14-15- we are all one family (“Catholic”) in heaven and on earth, united together, as children of the Father, through Jesus Christ. Our brothers and sisters who have gone to heaven before us are not a different family. We are one and the same family. This is why, in the Apostles Creed, we profess a belief in the “communion of saints.” There cannot be a “communion” if there is no union. Loving beings, whether on earth or in heaven, are concerned for other beings, and this concern is reflected spiritually through prayers for one another.

• Matt. 17:3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30 - Jesus converses with “deceased” Moses and Elijah.
• 1 Cor. 4:16 - the most important form of veneration of the saints is “imitating” the saints, as Paul commands us to do. **

1. The need for idols in your church.

There are no idols in the catholic church, once again you make false and empty comments to which you have no evidence to back it up with.

1. The Catholic Church (as it is today) = ‘His Church’, whereby, we can change the Word of God, in order to achieve this.

**The word of god has not been changed at all. Another false accusation. Aren’t you the one reading the bible with 7 missing books? And the catholic church is spoken of in the bible in:

• Matt. 16:18
• John 21:15-17**

1. The need for Israelites to be subjected to the ‘understanding’ of the Word of God, by gentiles (ie. Israelites must now receive their ‘wisdom’ from the Catholic Church instead of being ‘Gods’…by whom the Word of God came to all mankind.)

**Yes, all jews are obligated to convert to the catholic church as Jesus is and was the true messiah they were waiting for. Do you disagree with this?

**6. The ‘elevation of Mary’ to the point that she can make intercession for us.
**Another hollow argument, do you not ask for anyone here on earth to pray for you? **
**The angel Gabriel afterall did call her “full of grace”. **
What’s wrong with with asking the mother of Christ who is in heaven to pray for us!

1. That we should pray to carnally dead people.
   Who said they were dead? Physically yes but definately not spiritually!
2. That we should speak in a language that the commoners in the congregation in attendance cannot understand (Latin). The scriptures tell us, that those that do this, are ‘patting themselves on the back’ [my words for self-glorification], but the general congregation has no idea what is being said, and therefore receives no wisdom/enlightenment.

So does that mean the bible would have been corrupted early on because it was in greek? Could you understand aramaic and greek? Does that mean that because you can’t understand it it’s wrong? hmmmmmmm

1. …and the list goes on…
   No the lack of understanding and knowledge from your part is what goes on. Nothing else.
   

 

[Thorwald]

Louie1983:
I read through your responses to my posting. It is too large to copy here, so I’ll simply respond to what I can remember.

I am well aware that God chose Mary to give birth to Christ. Not one single apostle or disciple or even Christ Himself, has instructed us to pray to her. Concerning the Israelites, I doubt very much, that they need the Catholic Church (gentiles). They do need Christ. I am certain that God has His own plans concerning His chosen people. He states that He will graft them back in, and that “All Israel shall be saved.” God has never used the gentiles in order to bring His word to the Israelites, ever. They are annointed above the gentiles. Your answer concerning ‘man-made saints’ does not provide proof. Moses and Elijah were chosen by God, Himself. Why was God angry with Saul, when Saul used a median in order to contact Samuel (The Chronicles)? You do have ‘idols’. I have read the ‘missing books’ that you speak of. Concerning ‘carnally dead saints’, we have to remember, that Samuel asked Saul why he was bothering him? Samuel was sleeping/resting. He was finished with his work on earth. He wanted to be left alone. Are your carnally dead saints any different? Concerning the topic of speaking in a language in the presence of the congregation, that they do not understand, my previous posting comes right from the Bible.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I know my Bible very well, thank you. Please tell me the scripture(s) that supports the following;

1. The rosary.

The prayer of the rosary is in reality a variety of prayers, many totally scriptural.

The Apostles Creed c. 700 AD
I believe in God the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth. And in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell, and on the third day he rose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Ghost, the holy catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and life everlasting. Amen
Mt 6:9-13
Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as in heaven. Give us today our daily bread; and forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors; and do not subject us to the final test, but deliver us from the evil one.
Christian doxology (cf. Rev 4:8)
Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Ghost, as it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
Lk 1:28
Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.
Lk 1:42
Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.
Lk 1:43; (see also the Council of Ephesus, 431)
“the mother of my Lord” (Holy Mary, Mother of God.)
Prayer of petition; confession of sinfulness
Pray for us sinners;
Petitioning Mary dates to 3rd century
now and at the hour of our death. Amen
The sign of the cross; invoking the Holy Trinity
In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen
It is difficult to see how some Christians can criticize the private prayer life of other Christians. One such criticism centers on the element of repetition of the prayer, “Hail Mary.” But to even the casual reader of the word of God it must be apparent that the writers of the Bible–and God Himself–used the repetition of words and expressions in prayer.

The Bible uses repetition to indicate emphasis and the highest degree of something.

Is 6:3
“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of Hosts!” they (the Seraphim) cried one to another.
The Psalms are a good example of repetition in prayer. Psalm 150 records a twelve-fold repetition in one psalm.

One wonders if the prayerful repetitions found in all prayer services, especially “Halleluia” are modeled after the Psalms?

NOTE: The rosary is a devotion and not all Catholic pray the rosary. For example, the Eastern Catholics do not.

1. The acceptance of man-made saints, by God.

The United States of America honors Soldiers who died for our country during Memorial Day. The saints are Christian heroes who died for their Christian virtue and God. Many of them were martyred for their faith. Many of the saints who are canonized by the Catholic Church have been involved with miracles attritibuted to them, and they thoroughly investigated to insure that the miracles are God sent. Many of the miracles are involve healings from physical wounds and so forth.

Catholic honor Christian saints and their presence calls us to imitate them who imitate Jesus Christ. They are only following what Paul said, “Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.” 1 Cor 11:1

1. The need for idols in your church.

There are no idols in our Church. The statues and icons in our Churches are to remind us who the saints are and the life their imitated. The statues and icons are not worshipped. They serve much like photographs of family to help us remind us of our love ones. In fact, the Jews themselves would be guilty of idol worship because they have statues of Angels on the Ark of the Covenant.

 

[Mannyfit75]

1. The Catholic Church (as it is today) = ‘His Church’, whereby, we can change the Word of God, in order to achieve this.

The Catholic Church have never changed the Word of God. Historically speaking, Martin Luther, William Tyndale, and John Wycliff who are guilty of changing the Word of God by adding and changing the translation of the Bible.

Martin Luther reduced the Deutrocanonical Books in the Appendix (which have been used by Christians since Apostolic Times) and called James’ Epistles, the Epistles of Straw and claims it is not part of the Gospel. He also added “alone” in Romans 3:28 which is not found in the original Greek.

Let at look at John Wycliff. His translation of the Bible contain errors. There is a misconception about Wycliff. It is commonly believe that he translated the “First English Bible.” However, there are approved English translation of the Bible by the Catholic Church in 1150, 1250, and 1350 AD in England. There also other Bible translation prior to the Norman conquest. The earliest Bible translation dates back to the 700s AD when the language in Britain was mainly Saxon.

The concept that Wcyliff translated the first English Bible is a myth because there were Bibles written in English prior to his timeline. Wycliffe’s translation contain full of errors and heretical interpretation. Wycliffe was condemned because he was preaching heresy not because he translated the Bible in English. Wycliff was not persecuted by the Catholic Church but was allowed to retire in Loterworth and became a rector there and died there.

Then there was William Tyndale, like Wycliffe translation. His Bible translation also contain error. He completed his translation and when it was finally published. When the Tyndale Bible arrived in England, it was criticized by fellow theologians.Tyndale’s Bible have over 2,000 errors. For example, the word “Jehovah” was based off Tyndale because of his poor scholarship. Tyndale drop the word, “Church” and replace it with the word congregation. He replace the word “charity” with simplic “love,” he drop the word bishop and replace it with “overseer,” and cross out priest, and replace it with “elder.” King Henry the VIII will have none of it and had Tyndale put to death.

The Church is more of the defender of getting the correct translation of the Bible than changing it. If someone is guilty of changing the “Word of God.” It would be Martin Luther, William Tyndale, and John Wycliffe, not the Church.

1. The need for Israelites to be subjected to the ‘understanding’ of the Word of God, by gentiles (ie. Israelites must now receive their ‘wisdom’ from the Catholic Church instead of being ‘Gods’…by whom the Word of God came to all mankind.)

Really? The Catholic Church’s relationship with the state of Israel is diplomatic in nature. Second, it was the Jews who insist that Pope visit Israel. John Paul II did visit. Israel is a secular state. It is completely different than ancient Israel. The formation of Israel have more to do with the Jews wanted a homeland, which the Vatican have nothing to do with. The call for a Jewish homeland resulted from Holocaust, and in 1946, the state of Israel was born. Israel is not subject under the Pope. It is a Jewish state.

1. The ‘elevation of Mary’ to the point that she can make intercession for us.

Mary is honored because of her relationship with Jesus Christ. She points us to her son. She does not seek attention to herself. When we Catholics pray, we pray together with the saints in heaven, Mary and offer our prayers together to God the Father, through his only Son, Jesus Christ. St. Paul in his Epistles states that all prayers, supplications, intercession," are good and pleasing to God.

1. That we should pray to carnally dead people.

The practicing of praying for the dead dates back to ancient Jewish times. 2 Macc. 12:43-45 - the prayers for the dead help free them from sin and help them to the reward of heaven. Those in heaven have no sin, and those in hell can no longer be freed from sin. They are in purgatory. Luther was particularly troubled with these verses because he rejected the age-old teaching of purgatory. As a result, he removed Maccabees from the canon of the Bible. Your Bible does not have it because your Scripture only have 66 Books.

Even today, Jews have prayer called the Mourners Kaddish. It is a prayer for the dead.

1. That we should speak in a language that the commoners in the congregation in attendance cannot understand (Latin). The scriptures tell us, that those that do this, are ‘patting themselves on the back’ [my words for self-glorification], but the general congregation has no idea what is being said, and therefore receives no wisdom/enlightenment.

The Novus Ordo, or New Order of the Mass now allow Mass to be said in the common language. Even so, the Latin Mass have books called Missals that have English translation besides them. Unless you cannot read English material, then you cannot understand it. I know because I have a Tridentine Mass Missalette and it available to Catholics at the Church. The Mass in the Catholic Church is said in English. In some local Churches, it is read in Spanish.