Protestants, why are you here?

[Louie1983]

I read through your responses to my posting. It is too large to copy here, so I’ll simply respond to what I can remember.

I am well aware that God chose Mary to give birth to Christ. Not one single apostle or disciple or even Christ Himself, has instructed us to pray to her. Concerning the Israelites, I doubt very much, that they need the Catholic Church (gentiles). They do need Christ. I am certain that God has His own plans concerning His chosen people. He states that He will graft them back in, and that “All Israel shall be saved.” God has never used the gentiles in order to bring His word to the Israelites, ever. They are annointed above the gentiles. Your answer concerning ‘man-made saints’ does not provide proof. Moses and Elijah were chosen by God, Himself. Why was God angry with Saul, when Saul used a median in order to contact Samuel (The Chronicles)? You do have ‘idols’. I have read the ‘missing books’ that you speak of. Concerning ‘carnally dead saints’, we have to remember, that Samuel asked Saul why he was bothering him? Samuel was sleeping/resting. He was finished with his work on earth. He wanted to be left alone. Are your carnally dead saints any different? Concerning the topic of speaking in a language in the presence of the congregation, that they do not understand, my previous posting comes right from the Bible.

Hi Thorwald,

You say that the apostles and christ did not instruct us to pray to our lady. Can you tell me where the apostles instructed everyone to take the bible as the sole authority? Even when there were thousands of early church father quotes that supported this? These same early church fathers who were taught by the apostles themselves! are you disagreeing with them? Why did jesus then entrust his mother to john when he was on the cross?Jesus said “mother, behold thy son”? If she was good enough for John the disciple and Jesus then she is good enough for all of us.

Jesus was the promised messiah to the jews, plain and simple. They rejected him and crucified him. There’s nothing more to that.

Can you exaplin to me how we have idols please? you haven’t given any evidence to support this.

There are examples in scritpure where mediation is shown (praying to the saints), here are some:
-Matt. 27:52-53 - at Jesus’ passion, many saints were raised and went into the city to appear and presumably interact with the people, just as Jesus did after His resurrection.

• John 2:3 - Jesus knew the wine was gone, but invites and responds to Mary’s intercession. God desires our lesser mediation and responds to it because He is a living and loving God
  -John 2:11 - in fact, it was Mary’s intercession that started Jesus’ ministry. His hour had not yet come, yet Jesus responds to Mary’s intercession. Even though He could do it all by Himself, God wants to work with His children.

Given that you are a bible only christian, can you show me where the bible talks about contraception being a sin? or IVF? It’s not there is it? that’s why we need the church to guide us in truth.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Hi Thorwald,

You say that the apostles and christ did not instruct us to pray to our lady. Can you tell me where the apostles instructed everyone to take the bible as the sole authority? Even when there were thousands of early church father quotes that supported this? These same early church fathers who were taught by the apostles themselves! are you disagreeing with them? Why did jesus then entrust his mother to john when he was on the cross?Jesus said “mother, behold thy son”? If she was good enough for John the disciple and Jesus then she is good enough for all of us.

Jesus was the promised messiah to the jews, plain and simple. They rejected him and crucified him. There’s nothing more to that.

Can you exaplin to me how we have idols please? you haven’t given any evidence to support this.

There are examples in scritpure where mediation is shown (praying to the saints), here are some:
-Matt. 27:52-53 - at Jesus’ passion, many saints were raised and went into the city to appear and presumably interact with the people, just as Jesus did after His resurrection.

• John 2:3 - Jesus knew the wine was gone, but invites and responds to Mary’s intercession. God desires our lesser mediation and responds to it because He is a living and loving God
  -John 2:11 - in fact, it was Mary’s intercession that started Jesus’ ministry. His hour had not yet come, yet Jesus responds to Mary’s intercession. Even though He could do it all by Himself, God wants to work with His children.

Given that you are a bible only christian, can you show me where the bible talks about contraception being a sin? or IVF? It’s not there is it? that’s why we need the church to guide us in truth.

Note to all, Thorwald claimed he received a vision from God and what we know of the Trinity is false.

 

[Louie1983]

Note to all, Thorwald claimed he received a vision from God and what we know of the Trinity is false.

Right…didn’t know that. thanks

That explains a lot.

 

[imjustme]

If you’ll excuse me for asking a question that’s been asked before (in various forms) why are you (Protestants) here?

I often hear Protestants posters say that they’re here because they like conversing with Catholics – which I definitely respect, but it seems to me like an incomplete answer. Put it this way: I have many times chatted with Methodists [resp. Prebyterians, etc] both on and off the internet, but I’ve never felt like in order to do so I needed to sign-up for an account on a Methodist [resp. Prebyterian, etc] website.

So I guess the specific question I’d like to ask Protestant posters is this: Do you feel like there’s a dearth of Catholics in your life (online and/or offline) which you try to compensate for by coming here?

After many years as a Roman Catholic, I have been attending a non denominational Christian Church and have accepted Jesus as a (non-Catholic) Christian.

Reading the messages here and discussing the differences between Catholic and non-Catholic beliefs is helping me delve into deeper bible study, solidify my (non-Catholic) Christian faith and helping me prepare for my final step of conversion, which to me is adult baptism by immersion as Jesus was baptised by John the baptist.

So likewise, may I ask you…Why are you reading in the non-Catholic section of the forum?

 

[JonNC]

BTW, O.S. Luke, has anyone yet invited you to become Catholic?

I think some Methodists have.

Just kidding.
Sorry, O.S. Luke, I couldn’t resist.
Jon

 

[SSTeacher]

If you’ll excuse me for asking a question that’s been asked before (in various forms) why are you (Protestants) here?

I often hear Protestants posters say that they’re here because they like conversing with Catholics – which I definitely respect, but it seems to me like an incomplete answer. Put it this way: I have many times chatted with Methodists [resp. Prebyterians, etc] both on and off the internet, but I’ve never felt like in order to do so I needed to sign-up for an account on a Methodist [resp. Prebyterian, etc] website.

So I guess the specific question I’d like to ask Protestant posters is this: Do you feel like there’s a dearth of Catholics in your life (online and/or offline) which you try to compensate for by coming here?

I came across Catholic Answers Forums a few weeks before last Christmas at which time I was an Evangelical without a church home having come to the conclusion that any non–Catholic Western Christian position – whether Reformed, Arminian or any variation thereof that elevated the Bible above the Church – was wayward. I’d been quietly considering Holy Orthodoxy for about three years and had become increasingly drawn to it for the first six months (or so) of 2008. However, in the middle of 2008 – around this time last year – I experienced a major setback when I came critically to examine the Orthodox understanding of salvation. I tried as best I could but I just couldn’t get comfortable with it. The reason, as I soon realized, was that it hugely impacted my prayer life (which has always been central to my Christian faith). I had to wrestle with the idea that if the Orthodox understanding of salvation were true, it meant that I had God completely wrong – or, even worse, that for years I’d been praying to a God that didn’t exist! It threw me completely and I was in a state of great consternation. I calmed down in due course but then I remembered that the Catholic understanding of salvation is pretty much the same as the Orthodox one so the next thought that occurred to me was that the Catholic Church is more organized than the Orthodox Church so perhaps it was upon the Catholic Church that I should focus my attention? And that was my mindset when I came to Catholic Answers Forums.

Since coming to Catholic Answers Forums I’ve spent most of my screen time in the Non–Catholic Religions forum and continued my seeking but as I didn’t completely close the door on Orthodoxy my inquiry turned into a comparison between Catholicism and Orthodoxy. That continued for some months. Then, just a couple of months ago, I reached the end of my journey and became an Orthodox catechumen. At that point, there was really no reason to continue posting on Catholic Answers Forums as I was no longer an “inquirer into truth” since I considered that I’d found the fullness of truth in Holy Orthodoxy and as an Orthodox catechumen I now had a spiritual adviser and he was the guy whose direction and counsel I’d be listening to as I settled down to finding a modus vivendi prior to becoming accepted into the Church (perhaps next Pascha – I’m in no hurry). But I decided to stay on Catholic Answers Forums because I’ve made a couple of friends with whom I converse by occasional email outside of forum admin eyes and in any case some of the Catholic Answers Forums posters are very smart (even some of the Catholic ones ) and provide challenging points of view plus there’s the occasional interesting link. And there’s always the possibility that I’ll make some more friends.

So there’s no good reason not to stay.

Ecumenically,
Mick

 

[Peter_J]

After many years as a Roman Catholic, I have been attending a non denominational Christian Church and have accepted Jesus as a (non-Catholic) Christian.

Reading the messages here and discussing the differences between Catholic and non-Catholic beliefs is helping me delve into deeper bible study, solidify my (non-Catholic) Christian faith and helping me prepare for my final step of conversion, which to me is adult baptism by immersion as Jesus was baptised by John the baptist.

So likewise, may I ask you…Why are you reading in the non-Catholic section of the forum?

Well quite simply, I want to dialogue with non-Catholic Christians. I do so both here and over at ChristiansForums. (As I said in the OP, I’ve never really thought to myself, "Say I’d like to converse with some Methodists; I guess I’d better sign up for an account on a Methodist forum.)

 

[oberyn3]

I’m an Episcopalian. I attend catholic mass 3-5 days per week. This began after a job change. Daily worship is a part of my life, but it’s simply not feasible for me to travel to my home church body for a noon service (and my commute also mitigates against attending a morning service during the week). I feel this (attending mass) has enriched my personal relationship with God and I have always felt welcome.

I came to this forum in order to better understand the history, traditions, and doctrines of the church I was attending. It’s cleared up many misconceptions I had about the catholic faith and the RCC. It’s also inspired me to engage in further study re: the Early Church Fathers.

 

[gcnuss]

If you’ll excuse me for asking a question that’s been asked before (in various forms) why are you (Protestants) here?

I often hear Protestants posters say that they’re here because they like conversing with Catholics – which I definitely respect, but it seems to me like an incomplete answer. Put it this way: I have many times chatted with Methodists [resp. Prebyterians, etc] both on and off the internet, but I’ve never felt like in order to do so I needed to sign-up for an account on a Methodist [resp. Prebyterian, etc] website.

So I guess the specific question I’d like to ask Protestant posters is this: Do you feel like there’s a dearth of Catholics in your life (online and/or offline) which you try to compensate for by coming here?

I’m participate because I truly enjoy the conversations among Christians here. I don’t always agree with everyone – Catholic or non-Catholic – but I am convinced that the eventual reunification of Christendom will only come through the work of the Holy Spirit, guiding us in respectful conversation with one another. I would be foolish to think that what is shared on this forum will complete the job but it may glue one or two fragments together.

 

[Peter_J]

I would be foolish to think that what is shared on this forum will complete the job but it may glue one or two fragments together.

 

[Peter_J]

Just thinking, I should have included another question in the OP: Has anyone here ever said to themselves – with regard to a church or denomination other than Catholic – “I’d like to converse with [Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc.], so I guess I’d better sign up for an account on a [Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, etc.] forum.” ?

 

[gcnuss]

Just thinking, I should have included another question in the OP: Has anyone here ever said to themselves – with regard to a church or denomination other than Catholic – “I’d like to converse with [Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc.], so I guess I’d better sign up for an account on a [Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, etc.] forum.” ?

Well, I do participate in a Lutheran forum.

 

[oberyn3]

Just thinking, I should have included another question in the OP: Has anyone here ever said to themselves – with regard to a church or denomination other than Catholic – “I’d like to converse with [Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc.], so I guess I’d better sign up for an account on a [Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, etc.] forum.” ?

1. No, but if I were in the same position with respect to attending a Lutheran, Methodist, or Presbyterian church, I would have signed up for a Lutheran, Methodist, or Presbyterian forum.
2. The forum labels itself as:

“Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.”

If the forum had stated “For Catholics only”, I would not have signed up.

 

[Peter_J]

1. No, but if I were in the same position with respect to attending a Lutheran, Methodist, or Presbyterian church, I would have signed up for a Lutheran, Methodist, or Presbyterian forum.
2. The forum labels itself as:

“Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.”

If the forum had stated “For Catholics only”, I would not have signed up.

Regarding point # 1, I quite understand.

Regarding point #2, are you responding to me or to Thorwald (quoted below)?

I love visiting places where no one wants me. I think I’ve finally found ‘my home’.

 

[oberyn3]

Regarding point # 1, I quite understand.

Regarding point #2, are you responding to me or to Thorwald (quoted below)?

I was responding to your question(s).

There are people who feel no need to sign up for internet discussion forums of any kind. My wife is one of them. I like the exchange of ideas. I’m also a member of several internet discussion forums relating to other subjects/interests/issues, so it’s not as if I’m unfamiliar with the basic discussion board/forum concept. Anyway, when I wanted to learn more about catholicism, this seemed like the natural place for me to start precisely because it’s a forum which clearly states that it’s open to non-catholics.

 

[Spooksam]

Well, even though I don’t post on here that often, I will freely admit why I am here as a Protestant:

1)Jesus commands us to preach the Gospel to all creation. It is my desire to obey that. Now, most of the people I see in here and pretty embedded in their catholic faith, and I don’t think anything I say will change their minds. However, I do want to learn what the Catholics believe so that I can speak more clearly to my community which is very heavily Catholic. I used to be Catholic and I am fascinated at the changes I hear coming from some Catholics. For example, years ago, I would talk to Catholics who wanted to know that every part of their faith was based on the Bible, but I have seen here that the Traditions of the Catholic Church take higher priority than the Scriptures.

2)I am not here to fight - I hate fighting. I am open to honest discussion, but not fighting. I do want to ask questions. And if I am strong in my faith and Catholics here are strong in their faith, the questions should do nothing more than solidify all of us in our own beliefs.

I appreciate this site’s willingness to allow someone like me to be here.

 

[GodIsGracious]

Just thinking, I should have included another question in the OP: Has anyone here ever said to themselves – with regard to a church or denomination other than Catholic – “I’d like to converse with [Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc.], so I guess I’d better sign up for an account on a [Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, etc.] forum.” ?

Not really, no. I’m Catholic so I’m on CAF. I read the “non-Catholic” forum on a Catholic website when I’m curious about other beliefs and what those individuals espouse, especially because I know that with Protestants and non-Christian religions, the individual can hold a vastly different belief system regardless of the church or denomination they attend. I read these in the context of a Catholic Website because I know there are great Catholic apologists here who could ever so astutely defend our faith. It is those people I learn from.

 

[GodIsGracious]

Well, even though I don’t post on here that often, I will freely admit why I am here as a Protestant:

1)Jesus commands us to preach the Gospel to all creation. It is my desire to obey that. Now, most of the people I see in here and pretty embedded in their catholic faith, and I don’t think anything I say will change their minds. However, I do want to learn what the Catholics believe so that I can speak more clearly to my community which is very heavily Catholic. I used to be Catholic and I am fascinated at the changes I hear coming from some Catholics. For example, years ago, I would talk to Catholics who wanted to know that every part of their faith was based on the Bible, but I have seen here that the Traditions of the Catholic Church take higher priority than the Scriptures.

2)I am not here to fight - I hate fighting. I am open to honest discussion, but not fighting. I do want to ask questions. And if I am strong in my faith and Catholics here are strong in their faith, the questions should do nothing more than solidify all of us in our own beliefs.

I appreciate this site’s willingness to allow someone like me to be here.

[bolded emphasis mine]

So question, then. Why don’t you preach to non-Christians like Muslim, Buddhists, etc? Why do you have to target Catholics who are already Christian and have the fullness of the Gospel?

 

[JonNC]

Just thinking, I should have included another question in the OP: Has anyone here ever said to themselves – with regard to a church or denomination other than Catholic – “I’d like to converse with [Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc.], so I guess I’d better sign up for an account on a [Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, etc.] forum.” ?

Anglicans (the anglo-catholic type), and Orthodox. And no, I haven’t followed through yet.
Jon

 

[JonNC]

[bolded emphasis mine]

So question, then. Why don’t you preach to non-Christians like Muslim, Buddhists, etc? Why do you have to target Catholics who are already Christian and have the fullness of the Gospel?

Good question.
Jon