Protestants, why are you not Catholic?

[JonNC]

Jon, it is either scripture (part of the canon of the Bible) or it isn’t (not part of the canon of the Bible). The Lutheran position is nothing like pre-Trent for the many reasons I’ve reiterated more than several times, i.e., there were no bibles before the reformation that did not contain the deuterocanonical books as part of the canon of the Bible.

Again, there is no “Lutheran” position in the Confessions. A canon is not proscribed. It is simply the practice on how we use the books related to norming doctrine.
The Catholic church seems to hedge on what you say - it is or it isn’t. Isn’t the Vatican’s position on the books recognized as scripture by Orthodoxy more of “to each his own”?
Perhaps not, but Catholic s here seem more worked up about the Lutheran usage of the DC’s than they are about the “added” books of Orthodoxy.

Curiously, St. Jerome states his opinion in one of his prefaces:

“This preface to the Scriptures may serve as a “helmeted” introduction to all the books which we turn from Hebrew into Latin, so that we may be assured that what is not found in our list must be placed amongst the Apocryphal writings. Wisdom, therefore, which generally bears the name of Solomon, and the book of Jesus, the Son of Sirach, and Judith, and Tobias, and the Shepherd are not in the canon. I have found the First Book of the Maccabees is Hebrew, the Second is Greek, which may also be proven by their styles.”

As a result, I’m not sure your claim that no Bible prior to the Reformation did not contain the DC’s as canon is entirely accurate.

But, after all, I consider the DC’s part of the canon of the Bible, because. as Cardinal Cajetan said, *…they may be called canonical, that is, in the nature of a rule for the edification of the faithful, as being received and authorised in the canon of the Bible for that purpose. *
Jon

 

[Country_Gal]

I left the Catholic Church because of several things.

1. I think the church has too many legalistic rules, such as telling people that if they miss Mass they are in mortal sin. Masturbate, mortal sin. Birth control, mortal sin. Missing Mass is apparently on the same level and committing murder. Illogical!
2. There is something unhealthy that I observed in the Catholic Clergy. I think celibacy attracted a lot of repressed homosexuals into the priesthood. I’m not a big sexual liberal, but I think the Catholic Church goes too far in sexual matters. I recently found out that a priest I used to respect lived a double life for years, and had a lover who was the worst priest molester in my state. Yet, the church covers for people like this for years, and still does.
3. I think the Catholic Church is too bureaucratic. The way divorced people are treated is a good example of this.
4. I like Pope Francis, but don’t see what one man can do to change such a massive problem.

This Christmas Eve we will attend at a local Lutheran Church and see how we like that.

 

[batman1973]

I have also stated that my scriptural references come out of the Catholic Bible that I have which was printed in 1953 so are you saying that the Catholic bible I use is fallible. Also I have not asked you to leave the Catholic church…however I have only asked you to test what you hear, study the scriptures for yourself side by side with the Catechism & rightly divide the word.
Shalom
Walt

Woah, wait, Catholic Bible? There’s a corrupted version of the Catholic Bible? I have a Douay Rheims Challoner revision, and it reads almost identical to my King James. The only difference I see is that they have the DCs in with the regular Old Testament. So, if you can show me where the so called “Catholic Bible” is so wrong from the so called “Protestant Bible”, please, let this Protestant know.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Woah, wait, Catholic Bible? There’s a corrupted version of the Catholic Bible? I have a Douay Rheims Challoner revision, and it reads almost identical to my King James. The only difference I see is that they have the DCs in with the regular Old Testament. So, if you can show me where the so called “Catholic Bible” is so wrong from the so called “Protestant Bible”, please, let this Protestant know.

You mean they took out the DC’s out of the original King James?

 

[josie_L]

You mean they took out the DC’s out of the original King James?

Don’t go there Jose, don’t. :banghead:

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Don’t go there Jose, don’t. :banghead:

 

[batman1973]

You mean they took out the DC’s out of the original King James?

Ha!

 

[batman1973]

Also, I have a 400th anniversery reprint of the KJV. Very hard to read.

 

[ajecphotos]

I am a strong Catholic but I do agree with some who say that the church can be very bureaucratic and I don’t agree with a few aspects of the church myself. The ‘core’ facts of the church is what I beleive. I am sure God is not interested what religion you are from as long as you believe in him, love him, love your fellow man like him, ask for forgiveness and be a good person who takes note of the commandments.

The Kingdom of God is within us all. Love God with all your heart.

 

[FathersKnowBest]

SoMissCatholic…well it is not my interpretation of what baptism is, but it is what the bible clearly teaches & it is your misunderstanding due to a lack of studying it out.

It doesn’t seem that way, Walt.

She provided quotes right from scripture which directly contradicted your inerpretation of what baptism is.

Baptism in the sense of being immersed in water is a public statement of ones acceptance of Christ. The baptism you are referring to has to do with being baptized in Christ…

How would one glean that from scripture?

For instance, one of her cited quotes:
Acts 22:16 - “And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins…”.

How would “Rise and be baptized” NOT indicate a water baptism?

when you are immersed it is symbolic of what Christ did in His death & resurrection, ie, it is symbolic of dying to ourself & being resurrected in a new life as the bible says.

It IS symbolic, to be sure. And actual. The two are not mutually exclusive, any more than the symbolic death of the first-born Egyptian males at the first Passover was not actual. Their parents all seemed to think it was actual.

By the way nowhere in scripture can you find a basis for infant baptism.

Sure you can.
First, nowhere in scripture can you find a prohibition of infant baptism.
Second, baptism is a sacrament of initiation into the New Covenant akin to circumcision being the initiation into the Old Covenant. And circumcision was performed on 8-day old babies.

Baptism is after the fact of receiving Christ as one’s personal Lord & Savior & is a public acknowledgement of such.

Funny how scripture doesn’t say any such thing.

Shalom
Walt

Pax Christi

 

[FathersKnowBest]

AMO…the people are the church…the bldg. is not. You should to read the bible but not interpret it to mean what you want it to. The proper interpretation comes from an inductive study of the bible with the resources available to give the explanation of what words & phrases mean. Resources like a concordance & a good commentary.

…if the references found in the concordance & a good commentary reflect what the scriptures say then why do you need the concordance & a good commentary why not just the Holy Bible, which was written before the concordance & a good commentary by men inspired by the Holy Spirit ?

 

[JonNC]

It doesn’t seem that way, Walt.

She provided quotes right from scripture which directly contradicted your inerpretation of what baptism is.

How would one glean that from scripture?

For instance, one of her cited quotes:
Acts 22:16 - “And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins…”.

How would “Rise and be baptized” NOT indicate a water baptism?

It IS symbolic, to be sure. And actual. The two are not mutually exclusive, any more than the symbolic death of the first-born Egyptian males at the first Passover was not actual. Their parents all seemed to think it was actual.

Sure you can.
First, nowhere in scripture can you find a prohibition of infant baptism.
Second, baptism is a sacrament of initiation into the New Covenant akin to circumcision being the initiation into the Old Covenant. And circumcision was performed on 8-day old babies.

Funny how scripture doesn’t say any such thing.

Pax Christi

Originally Posted by 1rocky1
Baptism is after the fact of receiving Christ as one’s personal Lord & Savior & is a public acknowledgement of such.

Matthew 28: 19-20 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.

The command is for us to go make disciples of all nations. How?
1st - baptizing them…
Then: - teaching them…

This, in Christ’s own words, contradicts what you say here, rocky.
Now, there are other places where scripture says to believe and be baptized. The point is not to require scripture to contradict itself. The fact is baptism saves, infants can and should be baptized, and baptism can, in adults, follow the Holy Spirit’s kindling of faith in us.

Jon

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Also, I have a 400th anniversery reprint of the KJV. Very hard to read.

Try being Hispanic and reading it

 

[aidanbradypop]

Try being Hispanic and reading it

Art thou graceful? Si?

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Art thou graceful? Si?

Art - Arte (as in artistic)

Thou - masa (flour)

Graceful - gracioso (funny)

From a strictly transliteration point of view it would say:

Su masa artistica es graciosa.

You artistic flour is funny.

 

[JonNC]

Art - Arte (as in artistic)

Thou - masa (flour)

Graceful - gracioso (funny)

From a strictly transliteration point of view it would say:

Su masa artistica es graciosa.

You artistic flour is funny.

Sounds like art time in Kindergarten

 

[aidanbradypop]

Isaiah45_9;1152646it:

Art - Arte (as in artistic)

Thou - masa (flour)

Graceful - gracioso (funny)

From a strictly transliteration point of view it would say:

Su masa artistica es graciosa.

You artistic flour is funny.

Ha! I knew you would get it. Lol

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Ha! I knew you would get it. Lol

:tiphat::yukonjoe:

 

[simpleas]

It doesn’t seem that way, Walt.

She provided quotes right from scripture which directly contradicted your inerpretation of what baptism is.

How would one glean that from scripture?

For instance, one of her cited quotes:
Acts 22:16 - “And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins…”.

How would “Rise and be baptized” NOT indicate a water baptism?

It IS symbolic, to be sure. And actual. The two are not mutually exclusive, any more than the symbolic death of the first-born Egyptian males at the first Passover was not actual. Their parents all seemed to think it was actual.

**I]Sure you can.
First, nowhere in scripture can you find a prohibition of infant baptism.
Second, baptism is a sacrament of initiation into the New Covenant akin to circumcision being the initiation into the Old Covenant. And circumcision was performed on 8-day old babies. **

Funny how scripture doesn’t say any such thing.

Pax Christi

Hey,
Can i just ask, if circumcision was only for males how did they initiate females in the O.T?

I know now we all can be baptised, but wondered how females were welcomed into the house of God in the O.T.

Thanks

 

[simpleas]

I am a strong Catholic but I do agree with some who say that the church can be very bureaucratic and I don’t agree with a few aspects of the church myself. The ‘core’ facts of the church is what I beleive. I am sure God is not interested what religion you are from as long as you believe in him, love him, love your fellow man like him, ask for forgiveness and be a good person who takes note of the commandments.

The Kingdom of God is within us all. Love God with all your heart.

One of the core facts is to believe in Jesus Christ, dare I say, maybe not the catholic church… we have many religions that do not accept Christ as the one true God, but they do believe in a creator.
So I wonder if God is offended that people do not believe in his son, as all were called to do, but believing in a deity is ok by God…