Protestants -- why aren't you Orthodox?

  • Thread starter Thread starter VociMike
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Meaning…? Is that a slam on the honor, character and integrity of the Southern States? I would hope not.
I didn’t take it that way. From what I’ve been told by my friends from the South, the Baptist faith is part and parcel of the Southern culture itself. So “dislodging” it would be just about impossible without doing injury to Southern culture itself.
 
I didn’t take it that way. From what I’ve been told by my friends from the South, the Baptist faith is part and parcel of the Southern culture itself. So “dislodging” it would be just about impossible without doing injury to Southern culture itself.
If that is the way the post was intended, then fair enough.
 
Who cares about northern culture or southern culture or whatever place on the map you live in, what damage would there be? We are as Christians to be first and foremost dedicated to Jesus Christ. IOW, I think if we boldly say to the world “CC is the Church JC founded” then how are we able to feel good about not having a CC in place in all areas to the ones who we then tell “you dont have authority in your church” Its a moral dillemma for me - and in posting in these forums It never really hit me when I would really get going full steam on a Protestant poster here to ask myself if they had ever had a shot at the CC to begin with. I always assumed that they did and rejected it, I will change my posting style now and ask if they had an opportunity available first, Cause I dont think we can blame someone for rejecting the CC if its not a viable option to them.

Its got to be at least a viable option. If it is not, how can I come down on them for not checking it out? How can I slam them for disregarding the CC?
 
For what it’s worth, I think that Catholics make much too much about the “gates of hell” promise. You take it to mean that never–not once–at any time whatsoever–will hell and hell’s ruler prevail over the Church. I think that most Protestants see this as meaning that death will not prevail because Christ has delivered us from death and hell. Also, even though our eventual victory through Christ is guaranteed, it does not mean that there shall never be setbacks. If the Catholic attitude towards this biblical passage were applied in the secular world, say the historical context of the second world war, you might phrase the promise as “the Nazis shall never prevail over the Allies”. And they didn’t…but it does not mean that the Allies never lost a battle or scrimmage…
This is totally not the Catholic view.

As Fr. Groeschel says, “The gates of hell will not prevail, but they are clanging ever more loudly.”
 
One ecclesiological school of thought within Orthodoxy, particularly popular among the Russians, holds that the Church exists most fundamentally at the local level, in the community led by a local bishop and gathered around the Eucharistic table. The universal/Catholic Church is fully present in each local Eucharistic community.
Dear Edwin,

The teaching of the Fathers is balanced and takes into account both the local Church (as eucharistic community gathered around the bishop) AND the Universal Church.

The below is from Bp Kallistos Ware’s The Orthodox Church, written btw when he was a layman in the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad.

First, the view of the Church as a eucharistic community…

"The Empire through which these first Christian missionaries traveled was, particularly in its eastern part, an empire of cities: This determined the administrative structure of the primitive Church. The basic unit was the community in eacThe Empire through which these first Christian missionaries traveled was, particularly in its eastern part, an empire of cities: This determined the administrative structure of the primitive Church. The basic unit was the community in each city, governed by its own bishop; to assist the bishop there were presbyters or priests, and deacons. The surrounding countryside depended on the Church of the city. This pattern, with the threefold ministry of bishops, priests, and deacons,
was already widely established by the end of the first century. We can see it in the seven short letters which Saint Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, wrote about the year 107 as he traveled to Rome to be martyred. Ignatius laid emphasis upon two things in particular, the bishop and the Eucharist; he saw the Church as both hierarchical and sacramental. “The bishop in each Church,” he wrote, .presides in place of God… .Let no one do any of the things which concern the Church without the bishop. Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be, just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church… And it is the bishop’s primary and distinctive task to celebrate the Eucharist, .the medicine of immortality. (To the Magnesians, 6, 1; To the Smyrnaeans, 8, 1 and 2; To the Ephesians, 20, 2).

People today tend to think of the Church as a worldwide organization, in which each local body forms part of a larger and more inclusive whole. Ignatius did not look at the Church in this way. For him the local community is the Church. He thought of the Church as a Eucharistic society, which only realizes its true nature when it celebrates the Supper of the Lord, receiving His Body and Blood in the sacrament. But the Eucharist is something that can only happen locally in each particular community gathered round its bishop; and at every local celebration of the Eucharist it is the whole Christ who is present, not just a part of Him. Therefore each local community, as it celebrates the Eucharist Sunday by Sunday, is the Church in its fullness.

The teaching of Ignatius has a permanent place in Orthodox tradition. Orthodoxy still thinks of the Church as a Eucharistic society, whose outward organization, however necessary, is secondary to its inner, sacramental life; and Orthodoxy still emphasizes the cardinal importance of the local community in the structure of the Church. To those who attend an Orthodox Pontifical Liturgy (The Liturgy: this is the term normally used by Orthodox to refer to the service of Holy Communion, the
Mass), when the bishop stands at the beginning of the service in the middle of the church, surrounded by his flock, Ignatius of Antioch’s idea of the bishop as the center of unity in the local
community will occur with particular vividness.

intratext.com/IXT/ENG0804/__P2.HTM
 
Bishop Kallistos goes on to speak of the wider community of the Universal Church…

“But besides the local community there is also the wider unity of the Church. This second aspect is developed in the writings of another martyr bishop, Saint Cyprian of Carthage (died
258). Cyprian saw all bishops as sharing in the one episcopate, yet sharing it in such a way that each possesses not a part but the whole. “The episcopate,” he wrote, “is a single whole, in which each bishop enjoys full possession. So is the Church a single whole, though it spreads far and wide into a multitude of churches as its fertility increases.” (On the Unity of the Church, 5). There are many churches but only one Church; many episcopi but only one episcopate.”

intratext.com/IXT/ENG0804/__P2.HTM

So these two teachings form the two poles of the Orthodox understanding of the Church.

Today (22 December) is the commemoration of St. Ernan of Donegal
See groups.yahoo.com/group/celt-saints/message/2528
 
I didn’t take it that way. From what I’ve been told by my friends from the South, the Baptist faith is part and parcel of the Southern culture itself. So “dislodging” it would be just about impossible without doing injury to Southern culture itself.
Not quite. Go to Louisiana or Mississippi and you can’t go one block without missing a Catholic parish.
 
Not quite. Go to Louisiana or Mississippi and you can’t go one block without missing a Catholic parish.
The Gulf Coast is an exception. Louisiana was founded by French Catholics who migrated either directly from France or from already established French Canada. Subsequent waves of immigrants such as the Cajun French (Acadia renamed Nova Scotia by the Brits) only added to the pot. Don’t forget Spanish immigrants of all sorts and later still the Irish and Italians of the New Orleans area. But, except for isolated enclaves, Catholic Louisiana dies out halfway up from the coast. It’s reach is even less extensive in Mississippi and Alabama, although the coasts of these two states also had French settlement as well.

The great migration of protestant (mainly Presbyterian and Methodist) Anglo-Saxon immigrants swept across the entire Gulf Coastal Plain from Georgia, the Carolinas, and Virginia into Louisiana during the 1800’s. The Diocese of Shreveport, of which I belong up here in far north Louisiana, is the 4th smallest in the nation, supposedly…

But Catholicism is still the largest denom. in the state.
As of 2000, the Roman Catholic Church was the largest Christian denomination, with 1,382,603 church members. The leading Protestant denominations were the Southern Baptist Convention, 768,587; the United Methodist Church, 160,153; Assemblies of God, 49,041; and the Episcopal Church, 33,653. There were about 16,500 Jews residing in Louisiana in 2000, a majority of them in New Orleans. The Muslim community had about 13,050 members. Voodoo, in some cases blended with Christian ritual, is more widespread in Louisiana than anywhere else in the United States, although the present number of practitioners is impossible to ascertain. Over 1.8 million people (about 41.2% of the population) did not claim any religious affiliation in the 2000 survey.
from: city-data.com/states/Louisiana-Religions.html
 
Not that many of us, especially those from liturgical traditions, haven’t cast a glance eastward…
Not true in my experience. Most people are totally unaware of our Orthodox Church.

Keep looking east! :cool:
 
Orthodox Christians (eg the Russian Orthodox and Greek Orthodox churches) are not Catholic - they split with Rome in about the 1050s and are certainly not under Papal authority.
The Eastern Orthodox Church (AKA Eastern Roman Catholic Church) mutually split with Rome at Rome’s biddings. If it werent for the bull of excumunication by the Vatican in 1054 who knows if we would still be in union.

The Eastern Churches are as Catholic as they were before the split. Dependency on the papacy does not make one Catholic.
 
I’d like to be the optimist and say it won’t matter anyway! Here’s hoping that 2007 brings East and West much closer to reconciling!👍👍👍
 
Ummm … that’d be because only 1/6 of the world’s people and 1/4 of Americans are Catholic d’uh … logically there should be a fair few areas that don’t have a Catholic Church.
I have 2 within reasonable walking distance of me here in Blackburn, Australia. Blackburn is kind of a hub for all Christian chruches and business in the outer suburbs of Melbourne. The 2 biggest christian shops are located here. It’s a smorgesboard of christian church possibilities.

There are
3 Uniting Church
4 Anglican Church(4!!!)
3 Catholic Church
1 Baptist
2 Church Of Christ
1 Salvation Army(Yes even a Salvation Army!)
1 Seventh Day Adventist, in fact it’s their Melbourne headquarters

and not surprisingly also the main LDS church and Jehovah’s Witness Kingdom halls for the Eastern suburbs.
 
So Edwin, did they convert from Methodist to Orthodox? I thought Asbury Seminary was Methodist.
It’s historically Methodist, but not under the control of the United Methodist Church. Probably the majority of the faculty and students are UMC, but there are lots of students and some faculty from other Wesleyan denominations as well. Two of them–Free Methodists and Wesleyans–have actually declared Asbury an official seminary of their denomination, which it isn’t for the UMC (although it’s an approved seminary which UMC seminarians can attend).

I visited this church on Christmas Eve, and indeed a lot of the people were ex-Methodists. The new priest (not an Asbury Seminary grad) was ex-Pentecostal. It’s the first Orthodox church I’ve visited where there were no cradle Orthodox at all (except for the kids!). This was a gain in terms of friendliness (I got five pieces of antidoron) and a loss in terms of food. . .

It turns out that I misspoke about Catholicism–there is a Catholic church in Nicholasville. So scratch that. Catholicism is definitely more prevalent even in the South than Orthodoxy. I doubt that there’s anywhere east of the Mississipi that is more than half an hour’s drive from a Catholic church.

Edwin
 
Not true in my experience. Most people are totally unaware of our Orthodox Church.

Keep looking east! :cool:
Yup, that’s true, i don’t even know anything about Orthodox churches, till i pop into this forum, also it is difficult to find one Orthodox church here in Singapore
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top