Protestants, why do you protest?

[Happy_B]

I will start by citing a message from a member from another topic because it’s exactly to the point of this topic:

…I cannot understand how anyone could accept any Church which does not have the Promise of the Holy Spirit to guide Her always and which cannot trace its foundation back to Christ. Choosing anything other than this Church risks giving God less than wholehearted worship and adoration, and I will add, obedience. It says that one will only accept God on his own terms and rejects the Teaching of the Church which God Himself founded. One is part of the church, by virtue of their baptism, but not wholeheartedly, surrendering one’s will to God and to those whom God appointed to lead His Church. It places the soul in serious jeopardy.

As someone who was very headstrong and wilful, this was the most difficult thing for me. Obedience to the Teachings of the Church did not come naturally to me, but once God touched me, or rather took me by the scruff of the neck and gave me a good shake, there was no other response possible. The Catholic Church is the Church founded by Christ and protected from error by the Holy Spirit. Obedience to the Church is obedience to God. I can’t imagine that God considers disobedience to be wholehearted worship and adoration.

So I would just like to ask protestants, why do you guys protest? If it is because you have been told so by your pastors and know nothing about the catholic faith then fair enough (more or less). But if because you just don’t like ‘some bits’ from the catholic faith then how do you explain this? Do you think that Jesus came to this world, founded his Church (only one) and said: ‘So, this is your church and if you ever don’t like something about it, just go ahead, change it to suit your needs and set up another church (or a few of them) everytime you don’t like something.’ Because this is what has been happening since the 16th century…changing, transcribing, twisting and behaving as this is what God wanted…

If you say that you protest because the catholic church has changed teachings, etc that there’s no anwer to this question. Catholic church has its doctrine traced back the times of Jesus supported by plenty of historical documents and, in addition, has had a promise by the Holy Spirit that He will stay with Her forever (is this not quite a strong ‘issue’?). So why do you protest then? You may have a heart for God and lead a christian life but is this not a disobedience to God if you reject the church he has founded???

Catholics, feel encouraged to give your opinions as to why you think this is…as I don’t quite understand it:nope:

 

[larkin31]

I will start by citing a message from a member from another topic because it’s exactly to the point of this topic:

So I would just like to ask protestants, why do you guys protest? If it is because you have been told so by your pastors and know nothing about the catholic faith then fair enough (more or less). But if because you just don’t like ‘some bits’ from the catholic faith then how do you explain this? Do you think that Jesus came to this world, founded his Church (only one) and said: ‘So, this is your church and if you ever don’t like something about it, just go ahead, change it to suit your needs and set up another church (or a few of them) everytime you don’t like something.’ Because this is what has been happening since the 16th century…changing, transcribing, twisting and behaving as this is what God wanted…

If you say that you protest because the catholic church has changed teachings, etc that there’s no anwer to this question. Catholic church has its doctrine traced back the times of Jesus supported by plenty of historical documents and, in addition, has had a promise by the Holy Spirit that He will stay with Her forever (is this not quite a strong ‘issue’?). So why do you protest then? You may have a heart for God and lead a christian life but is this not a disobedience to God if you reject the church he has founded???

Catholics, feel encouraged to give your opinions as to why you think this is…as I don’t quite understand it:nope:

Is it ok to disparage Catholicism in reply to this question? I do not want to be banned. But you seem to be asking “Why reject Catholicism?”

On the safe side, I will say that I believed the faith that I was raised in, and knew nothing else–like most people on the planet. That is, for the most part, how the people of the world “choose” their particular faith. It is not about “protesting” or “submitting”–all these faiths require submission.

 

[Crown_of_Thorns]

Is it ok to disparage Catholicism in reply to this question? I do not want to be banned. But you seem to be asking “Why reject Catholicism?”

On the safe side, I will say that I believed the faith that I was raised in, and knew nothing else–like most people on the planet. That is, for the most part, how the people of the world “choose” their particular faith. It is not about “protesting” or “submitting”–all these faiths require submission.

The Catechism explicitly recognises the situation where protestant Christians are brought up in communities resulting from the reformation

…“one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers” CCC 818

However, Christ prayed that Christians “may all be one” (John 17.1) and as followers of Christ I believe we all have a duty to engage charitably, but rigorously with the issues dividing the Church, in order that we may partake of fulfilling Christ’s will for the oneness of the Christian community. This means that those who are in “protestant” Churches need to elucidate (in charity) what they are protesting against, so that the Catholic Church can (in charity) address those concerns to whatever extent she may.

Ecumenical dialogue is very tough, emotionally, but we are called to face up to this challenge and not to ignore it and pretend that those real differences aren’t there.

 

[O.S.Luke]

The true meaning of “Protestant” in reference to the Protestant reformation is “to stand for a witness.” From the Latin protestans/protestantis.

Actually, it is questionable that Anglicans and Methodists can be strictly called Protestants, since the Church of England is a unique situation.

The only thing that I know Methodists truly protest against is being told they need to sacrifice a little more where their wallets and the offering plate is concerned.

 

[JRKH]

Is it ok to disparage Catholicism in reply to this question? I do not want to be banned. But you seem to be asking “Why reject Catholicism?”

On the safe side, I will say that I believed the faith that I was raised in, and knew nothing else–like most people on the planet. That is, for the most part, how the people of the world “choose” their particular faith. It is not about “protesting” or “submitting”–all these faiths require submission.

I think that this is a good response to the question. The Church, in the Catachism, even recognizes this in paragraph 818 818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers. . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

The fact is that most non-catholic christians are either raised in their faith or join a faith community without ever actually knowing the full history of how the seperations came about or developed over the last 500 years or so.

Some of the core “unitive” ideas of protestantism are so ingrained that few ever question their validity. Two of these are the idea of Sola Scriptura (or prima scriptura), that the bible is the Sole Rule of faith, and the idea that the term “Church” in the NT was not intended to be heirachial and authoritative.

So - In answer to the OP, I think it is safe to say that, except for those who leave the catholic Church for another community, there are few true protestant individuals in the world today. There are only communities based, more or less, on the protestant ideas of the Reformation.

Peace
James

 

[Carlan]

I think that this is a good response to the question. The Church, in the Catachism, even recognizes this in paragraph 818 818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers. . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

The fact is that most non-catholic christians are either raised in their faith or join a faith community without ever actually knowing the full history of how the seperations came about or developed over the last 500 years or so.

Some of the core “unitive” ideas of protestantism are so ingrained that few ever question their validity. Two of these are the idea of Sola Scriptura (or prima scriptura), that the bible is the Sole Rule of faith, and the idea that the term “Church” in the NT was not intended to be heirachial and authoritative.

So - In answer to the OP, I think it is safe to say that, except for those who leave the catholic Church for another community, there are few true protestant individuals in the world today. There are only communities based, more or less, on the protestant ideas of the Reformation.

Peace
James

Very good explanation James! God bless, Peace Carlan

 

[Truth_Seeker17]

Simple: Because Protestants do not think the Bible says what Catholics think. We can still respect each other of course; there is such a thing as civil disagreement. But is it productive at all for both sides to try to convince the other to join their side? If we just learned to accept one another (Romans 14:1), we could be a lot more productive within the Body of Christ (which includes all Christians).

I don’t like it when Protestants are viewed as some rebellious group that has deviated from the truth, but I also don’t like it when Catholics are viewed as some tyrannical, dogmatic organization that thinks it knows everything. We’ve got to love, not hate, each other.

 

[JRKH]

Simple: Because Protestants do not think the Bible says what Catholics think. We can still respect each other of course; there is such a thing as civil disagreement. But is it productive at all for both sides to try to convince the other to join their side? If we just learned to accept one another (Romans 14:1), we could be a lot more productive within the Body of Christ (which includes all Christians).

I don’t like it when Protestants are viewed as some rebellious group that has deviated from the truth, but I also don’t like it when Catholics are viewed as some tyrannical, dogmatic organization that thinks it knows everything. We’ve got to love, not hate, each other.

Well Said
If we are to be True followers of Christ, we must begin with Love.

As or differences, I don’t think that there can be a simple live and let live attitude since each group is, or at least should be, interested in bringing people closer to theTruth of Christ.
The Latin Rite Church is now in conversation with the Anglican Church as well as with the Eatern Orthodox with a goal of eventual reunification. She has also been in talks with the Lutherans trying to promote greater understanding. In each of these the steps are small and slow, but important. This is something we should all recognize. The walk toward God is not easy and is not fast. Christ Himself told us it was a hard and narrow road that few find. Let us be patient with each other, drawing together in Love and Truth instead of pushing apart in suspicion and misunderstanding.

Peace
James

 

[larkin31]

The Catechism explicitly recognises the situation where protestant Christians are brought up in communities resulting from the reformation

…“one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers” CCC 818

However, Christ prayed that Christians “may all be one” (John 17.1) and as followers of Christ I believe we all have a duty to engage charitably, but rigorously with the issues dividing the Church, in order that we may partake of fulfilling Christ’s will for the oneness of the Christian community. This means that those who are in “protestant” Churches need to elucidate (in charity) what they are protesting against, so that the Catholic Church can (in charity) address those concerns to whatever extent she may.

Ecumenical dialogue is very tough, emotionally, but we are called to face up to this challenge and not to ignore it and pretend that those real differences aren’t there.

I was also including ALL the world’s religions in my comment on taking up the faith of one’s family (first) and community (second).

 

[Looking_back]

My husband would take issue with almost every statement made by the original poster

 

[tweetymom]

Simple: Because Protestants do not think the Bible says what Catholics think. We can still respect each other of course; there is such a thing as civil disagreement. But is it productive at all for both sides to try to convince the other to join their side? If we just learned to accept one another (Romans 14:1), we could be a lot more productive within the Body of Christ (which includes all Christians).

I don’t like it when Protestants are viewed as some rebellious group that has deviated from the truth, but I also don’t like it when Catholics are viewed as some tyrannical, dogmatic organization that thinks it knows everything. We’ve got to love, not hate, each other.

A++ Great post

 

[Rightlydivide]

I will start by citing a message from a member from another topic because it’s exactly to the point of this topic:

So I would just like to ask protestants, why do you guys protest? If it is because you have been told so by your pastors and know nothing about the catholic faith then fair enough (more or less). But if because you just don’t like ‘some bits’ from the catholic faith then how do you explain this? Do you think that Jesus came to this world, founded his Church (only one) and said: ‘So, this is your church and if you ever don’t like something about it, just go ahead, change it to suit your needs and set up another church (or a few of them) everytime you don’t like something.’ Because this is what has been happening since the 16th century…changing, transcribing, twisting and behaving as this is what God wanted…

If you say that you protest because the catholic church has changed teachings, etc that there’s no anwer to this question. Catholic church has its doctrine traced back the times of Jesus supported by plenty of historical documents and, in addition, has had a promise by the Holy Spirit that He will stay with Her forever (is this not quite a strong ‘issue’?). So why do you protest then? You may have a heart for God and lead a christian life but is this not a disobedience to God if you reject the church he has founded???

Catholics, feel encouraged to give your opinions as to why you think this is…as I don’t quite understand it:nope:

Protestant is term you use and I am willing to adopt it for ease of conversation. Suffice to say, that I believe the church founded by Jesus must adhere to his doctrines, practices, and above all be known by their fruits. As such, I do not protest but I do come on here to defend our practices, beliefs, and fruits when threads like this pop up. I did not learn my history from another elder. I can read fine myself. It might or might not be surprising to you that people read the same history, the same Bible, and come to different conclusions. When you clearly state that I am being disobedient to God by not being in your church, I do feel the need to clearly state why I am not:

The church started by Jesus Christ cannot be proven to have the same beliefs you have. I suppose I can list them. Its hardly going to be convincing to you if I do. I have been around here long enough to know. But I cannot help but reply to the condesending and arrogance implied in the thread.

If you do not think so, please let me help you:

So I would just like to ask Catholics, why do you guys belong to a church that teaches incorrect doctrine? If it is because you have been told so by your priests and know nothing about the Christian faith then fair enough (more or less). But if because you just don’t like ‘some bits’ from the Christian faith then how do you explain this? Do you think that Jesus came to this world, founded his Church (only one) and said: ‘So, this is your church and if you ever don’t like something about it, just go ahead, change it to suit your needs and set up another church (or a few of them) everytime you don’t like something.’ Because this is what has been happening since the 2nd century until the Reformation…changing, transcribing, twisting and behaving as this is what God wanted…

If you say that you do not belong to the Christian church because the Christian church has changed teachings, etc that there’s no anwer to this question. The Christian church has its doctrine traced back the times of Jesus supported by plenty of historical documents and, in addition, has had a promise by the Holy Spirit that He will stay with Her forever (is this not quite a strong ‘issue’?). So why do you not belong then? You may have a heart for God and lead a christian life but is this not a disobedience to God if you reject the church he has founded???

 

[Truth_Seeker17]

Well Said
If we are to be True followers of Christ, we must begin with Love.

As or differences, I don’t think that there can be a simple live and let live attitude since each group is, or at least should be, interested in bringing people closer to theTruth of Christ.
The Latin Rite Church is now in conversation with the Anglican Church as well as with the Eatern Orthodox with a goal of eventual reunification. She has also been in talks with the Lutherans trying to promote greater understanding. In each of these the steps are small and slow, but important. This is something we should all recognize. The walk toward God is not easy and is not fast. Christ Himself told us it was a hard and narrow road that few find. Let us be patient with each other, drawing together in Love and Truth instead of pushing apart in suspicion and misunderstanding.

Peace
James

Yes, exactly. I completely agree.

 

[Happy_B]

… I did not learn my history from another elder. I can read fine myself. It might or might not be surprising to you that people read the same history, the same Bible, and come to different conclusions. When you clearly state that I am being disobedient to God by not being in your church, I do feel the need to clearly state why I am not:

If you do not think so, please let me help you:

Well, we don’t have the same Bible…when I showed my Bible to a non-catholic friend he was surprised how big it was. When he read through the books that had been excluded from your Bibles he was surprised and didn’t know anything about it. In addition, he didn’t understand why all these books are not in his bible as well as he didn’t see anything ‘wrong’ with them…

 

[Rightlydivide]

Well, we don’t have the same Bible…when I showed my Bible to a non-catholic friend he was surprised how big it was. When he read through the books that had been excluded from your Bibles he was surprised and didn’t know anything about it. In addition, he didn’t understand why all these books are not in his bible as well as he didn’t see anything ‘wrong’ with them…

My Bible has the Apocrypha. Just so you know…

 

[SteveVH]

:

The church started by Jesus Christ cannot be proven to have the same beliefs you have. I suppose I can list them. Its hardly going to be convincing to you if I do. I have been around here long enough to know.

It takes two seconds to make a statement like this but possibly hours to adequately refute it. I’m not sure I have the energy but I just can’t let this go. Please provide your list of beliefs of the CC that are not in line with the early Church. As for being convincing, that road runs both ways. I will promise to give the items on your list due consideration if you will do the same with my responses.

 

[hugefeet]

So I would just like to ask protestants, why do you guys protest?

I can only relate to you my personal experience. My mother was raised a Catholic in a Catholic orphanage and my Father was a Lutheran. Both of them were banned from services for marrying each other. They hated religion and were extremely bitter toward their own churches.

It didn’t help that my mother had unbelievably horrible stories about her orphanage and the abuses of the Nuns. Her brother suffered his whole life from those emotional scars and finally wrote a book called “Bitter Weeds”.

When I became of age and started asking about God, no priest appeared at my door, no “good Catholic” cared enough to reach out to me and help me. It was a street preacher that patiently spent hour upon hour answering my questions and patiently waiting for me to make a decision.

For all the talk about Peace and Love the RCC incessantly spouts, there was no love shown my mother, father or me. Just a proud arrogance they (RCC) are always right and people like us just should grovel and serve these layabouts.

In truth, thats about all I see on this board from Catholics. Not love or peace, just an arrogance that “we are the one true church, all you other sinners are just wrong and we are right and pure and holy nya nya nya”

 

[SteveVH]

So I would just like to ask protestants, why do you guys protest?

I can only relate to you my personal experience. My mother was raised a Catholic in a Catholic orphanage and my Father was a Lutheran. Both of them were banned from services for marrying each other. They hated religion and were extremely bitter toward their own churches.

The stories my mother told about her upbringing and the abuses of the Nuns were unbelievable.

When I became of age and started asking about God, no priest appeared at my door, no “good Catholic” cared enough to reach out to me and help me. It was a street preacher that patiently spent hour upon hour answering my questions and patiently waiting for me to make a decision.

For all the talk about Peace and Love the RCC incessantly spouts, there was no love shown my mother, father or me. Just a proud arrogance they (RCC) are always right and people like us just should grovel and serve these layabouts.

In truth, thats about all I see on this board from Catholics. Not love or peace, just an arrogance that “we are the one true church, all you other sinners are just wrong and we are right and pure and holy nya nya nya”

Well bless the preacher that brought you to Christ. God moves in many wonderful ways. Catholics don’t make a practice of knocking on doors but the doors of the Church are always open. Unfortunately, our Church is made up of human beings who sometimes fail in charity. Did you reach out to the Church and were rejected or did they just fail to knock on your door?

I have to disagree with your assessment of the attitude of Catholics on this forum. Not to say that we can’t lose it at times, but for the most part people are very decent and respectful, Catholics included. Every now and then we get a post like yours here and then us “layabouts” get a little cranky. You tend to get back what you give. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[larkin31]

Catholics don’t make a practice of knocking on doors but the doors of the Church are always open. Unfortunately, our Church is made up of human beings who sometimes fail in charity. Did you reach out to the Church and were rejected or did they just not knock on your door?

I have to disagree with your assessment of the attitude of Catholics on this forum. Not to say that we can’t lose it at times, but for the most part people are very decent and respectful, Catholics included. Every now and then we get a post like yours here and then us “layabouts” get a little cranky. You tend to get back what you give. Just something to keep in mind.

This issue of the non-recognition of marriages outside of their own sacramental practices is a deal-breaker for many people. That to me is the core difficulty here.

 

[hugefeet]

Unfortunately, our Church is made up of human beings who sometimes fail in charity.

another statement made by Catholics that tries to play it both ways.

ON the one hand they say priests are specially endowed to pass grace and truth from God to all men but when those same people fail miserably and sometimes live lives so debauched and wicked the government has to step in and file charges, the RCC says “well you know, they are just men and they fail.”

whoo, talk about 1984 doublethink!!!

the ability to hold two contradictory ideas in your head at the same time and hold them both to be equally valid is a sign of insanity OR being a member of the RCC.