Protestants: Why don't you follow his command? "Eat My Flesh and Drink My Blood"

[ruzz]

RE: Religion

You will notice I put it in quotes “religion” for a reason. I also claim to FOLLOW Christ not a religion (as I’m sure you do). That’s not to say we aren’t religious.
My point being that Christ is the foundation of CHRISTianity. He is what we ALL follow (I hope).

St.Eric:

I also take this literally:

1 Corinthians 11:26-30

26 For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come. 27 Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. 30 Therefore are there many infirm and weak among you, and many sleep.

Are you taking this out of context? What is he writing about?

1 Cor 11:21 for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk. 22Don’t you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you for this? Certainly not!

Paul is ticked off that people are coming to the Lord’s supper to just get fed and get drunk. So Paul is telling them to knock it off. He’s talking about their table manners.
This does doesn’t sound like people waiting in line to eat a wafer. It sounds like a meal. The Corinthians are gluttons and drunkards.

-Pax Vobiscum

 

[ruzz]

St.Eric:

Here is another one from St. Paul. Seems Paul also believed in the real presence:

1 Corinthians 10:16

16 The chalice of benediction, which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? And the bread, which we break, is it not the partaking of the body of the Lord?

This is probably the best scripture to support the Eucharist. John 6 doesn’t do it for me.

-Pax vobiscum

 

[St.Eric]

ruzz:

RE: Religion

You will notice I put it in quotes “religion” for a reason. I also claim to FOLLOW Christ not a religion (as I’m sure you do). That’s not to say we aren’t religious.
My point being that Christ is the foundation of CHRISTianity. He is what we ALL follow (I hope).

Are you taking this out of context? What is he writing about?

1 Cor 11:21 for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk. 22Don’t you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you for this? Certainly not!

Paul is ticked off that people are coming to the Lord’s supper to just get fed and get drunk. So Paul is telling them to knock it off. He’s talking about their table manners.
This does doesn’t sound like people waiting in line to eat a wafer. It sounds like a meal. The Corinthians are gluttons and drunkards.

-Pax Vobiscum

You are exactly right. They are coming to the Lord’s supper and NOT DISCERNING the body and blood of Christ. Rather, as you say, they are treating it as a normal/symbolic meal and drinking and eating judgement upon their own heads. Your post supports the Catholic view.

 

[Eden]

ruzz:

Mega-Churches?
I’ve been in St. Patrick’s Cathedral in NYC. Is that what you mean?

“Mega-Churches”, the latest trend in Christianity:

www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4788676

Christianity - “biggie sized”

Not to be confused with the reverse trend in Christianity, “House Churches”:

www.housechurch.org

so, yes, it’s non-denominational

Non-denominationalism is a movement created by men, not just pure Christianity “following Jesus”.

Church: Non-Denominational

Year Founded: Circa 1990s

Place: United States

Church: Catholic

Year Founded: 33 A.D.

Place: Jerusalem

Source: “What is the History of Your Church?” at www.scripturecatholic.com

 

[JSmitty2005]

ruzz:

We are not affiliated with anyone, so, yes, it’s non-denominational and therefore adds to the statistic of one of 50,000 denominations even though our beliefs are identical to other non-denominational churches I’ve been to.

So basically this tells me that non-denominationalism is self-defeating because it has essentially become its own denomination.

 

[ruzz]

Eden:

Non-denominationalism is a movement created by men, not just pure Christianity “following Jesus”.

Church: Non-Denominational

Year Founded: Circa 1990s

Place: United States

Non-Denoms seem to be the biggest thorn in Catholic apologist’s sides. You don’t know what we believe. (an Invisible Target) On the contrary, Catholics are often criticized for their past history or the actions of a few bad apples (an easy target). Catholics think we worship guitars and plasma screens and non-catholics think you worship Mary. Both criticisms are wrong.

Every physical church was formed by someone. I’m going to bet that the building you worship in was the brainchild of someone in the Catholic Church. Someone build the first room and someone was the first to attend. Unless it is in Israel, it probably wasn’t in the year 33AD.

However, the principles and scriptures of Christianity predate America 1990. Our church is founded on the same principles yours was, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who died for our sins.

Church: Catholic

Year Founded: 33 A.D.

Place: Jerusalem

Again, I don’t wish to take this thread off topic anymore. The statement above is a claim. It is best debated in another thread. I have debated this with Catholics on other forums and I’ve yet to have my question answered.

Thank you Eden for your sincere responses. God Bless.

-Pax Vobiscum

 

[ruzz]

JSmitty2005:

So basically this tells me that non-denominationalism is self-defeating because it has essentially become its own denomination.

I’m sure that is how you understand it. :banghead:

-Pax vobiscum

 

[Eden]

ruzz:

Non-Denoms seem to be the biggest thorn in Catholic apologist’s sides.

You’ve only come into existence in the past decade or so. Non-denominationalism is just the latest Protestant movement.

You don’t know what we believe. (an Invisible Target)

The problem is, your beliefs are not consistent. You all come from earlier, established denominations with all kinds of contradictory teachings.

On the contrary, Catholics are often criticized for their past history or the actions of a few bad apples (an easy target).

Not really, considering Jesus came for the sinners, not the righteous. No one says His Church won’t have sinners.

Catholics think we worship guitars and plasma screens and non-catholics think you worship Mary. Both criticisms are wrong.

I didn’t say you worship guitars or plasma screens. That’s a bit of an extreme way to answer.

Every physical church was formed by someone. I’m going to bet that the building you worship in was the brainchild of someone in the Catholic Church.

You are talking about a physical building. I’m talking about the faith - the Church Christ founded.

Someone build the first room and someone was the first to attend. Unless it is in Israel, it probably wasn’t in the year 33AD.

Again, we are not talking about buildings. If the only difference between your church and mine was what the buildings look like… well, you’d be Catholic, wouldn’t you?

However, the principles and scriptures of Christianity predate America 1990.

Yes. In the case of non-denominationalism, your principals go back to the Reformation in the 16th century.

Our church is founded on the same principles yours was, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who died for our sins.

Your church was founded on the principles enunciated during the Reformation. Protestantism is Christianity as filtered through the minds of men such as Luther, Calvin and Zwingli.

Thank you Eden for your sincere responses. God Bless.

Thank you too. God bless!

 

[O.S.Luke]

Eden:

You’ve only come into existence in the past decade or so. Non-denominationalism is just the latest Protestant movement.

To be historically accurate, “non-denominationalism” goes back to the late 1500’s and the Congregationalist movement… also known as “Separatists” (remember them, Pilgrims and Puritans, the first American settlers?). Jonathan Edwards was a Congregationalist. Congregationalists also founded schools such as Yale, Dartmouth, Amherst, Harvard, and Oberlin.

Eden:

Your church was founded on the principles enunciated during the Reformation. Protestantism is Christianity as filtered through the minds of men such as Luther, Calvin and Zwingli.

Actually… that wouldn’t fit Congregationalists or Non-Denoms. Nor would it fit Anglicans or Methodists. Anglican/Methodists came from a much different lineage than Luther/Calvin. Congregationalists were most decidedly NOT Anglican.

Although Protestants do it too, it is probably inaccurate to lump many non-Catholics as Protestants, since some non-Catholics are clearly not products of the Lutheran/Calvinist Reformation.

 

[Mickey]

ruzz:

Non-Denoms seem to be the biggest thorn in Catholic apologist’s sides. You don’t know what we believe.

In my observation, non-denoms are usually baptists who do not want to call themselves baptists.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Mickey:

In my observation, non-denoms are usually baptists who do not want to call themselves baptists.

That is not always true. A lot of non-denoms here carry “Baptist” in their church title. To hazard a second guess, it is either a doctrinal issue against the “Corporate Baptists” or they simply do not want have to send a portion of their tithes to a higher authority. A lot of the times it may be the case of “Your’e not the boss of me” mentality.

 

[Mickey]

ruzz:

Jesus has a preaching style that is quite unique, but this is not a coded message. He’s making an important point.

Agreed.

ruzz:

The flesh profits nothing.

Our flesh profits nothing!

ruzz:

If you want to believe otherwise, that’s fine and we respect it.

As you should. It is the 2000 year old teaching and understanding of the Eucharist.

ruzz:

Christianity is based on Jesus Christ, not a church.

He is the head of the Church that He founded–the Catholic Church.

ruzz:

35 Jesus Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.

In no way does this verse diminish the teaching of the Real Presence.

ruzz:

I can think of no reason why God would encode his Word so that a message so important would need an interpretter.

The teaching of the Real Presence is quite clear. It is not coded. It has been interpreted that way for 2000 years. It changed when the reformers decided to revise it.

ruzz:

When I look at where Catholics get their viewpoint, it generally is from John 6 through the lens of their clergy’s teachings.

Catholics undersatnd the Real Presence from much more than only John 6 (this has been pointed out to you many times). The “lens” of the Catholic clergy is the same “lens” that the Church has been looking through for 2000 years. Your “lens” has been around for maybe 500 years.

 

[JoeyWarren]

The spirit understands what the flesh does not.