Protestants, why?

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I think many Protestants strongly disagree with the infallibility of the Pope because we were taught in our churches that it means Catholics think the Pope is perfect and incapable of sinning. Here’s how one website uses the Bible to refute this belief:

According to Catholic doctrine, the Pope is infallible in matters of doctrine, faith and morals.

“In order to preserve the Church in the purity of the faith handed on by the apostles, Christ who is Truth willed to confer on her a share in his own infallibility. By a supernatural sense of faith the People of God, under the guidance of the Church’s livi ng magisterium, unfailingly adheres to this faith.” Pg. 235, #889

The Catechism restates the same belief this way:

“The Roman Pontiff… enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith - he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals… This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself.” Pg. 235, #891

Sadly, this doctrine is but another tradition of men that contradicts Scripture. The Bible declares that all people are sinners. No one is perfect or infallible in anything:

“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” Romans 3:23

“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:” Romans 3:10

Notice, you didn’t read, " no one, except the pope." Jesus is the only infallible person who ever lived:

“For he (God) hath made him (Jesus) to be sin for us, who knew no sin…” 2 Corinthians 5:21
I give you credit for bravery, using chick.com as a source and acutally posting it here at CAF.

On your point, what’s admittedly odd is that my biggest complaint about the claim of infallibility is that it was made without a truly ecumenical general council. But that’s me. 🤷

Jon
 
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicea325
And can you speak for all 99% when differences are applied?
Prosmith:
Which are you referring to?
Baptism for starters. Infants or adults? Sacrament or ordinance or dedication?
Can you show me 10 people in the same pew as you at mass who believe the same things regarding the Eucharist or Mary??
And that would prove what? It is not about our opinions or statistics. TRUTH is TRUTH…PERIOD! Did the 4th century Church who was guided by the Holy Spirit give a hoot and alter doctrine for the Arians who rejected Christ divinity? You tell me? Or did the church ratify and make it official? God is the Judge,not the student.
I didn’t think so. It’s the same exact premise.
Nope! I do not think so! As a Catholic, either one accepts it or rejects it. Pushing one’s own agendas and rejections make no difference on doctrinal Truth-period! Do you believe God is concerned with our rejections and disbeliefs about the Eucharist? Show me where Jesus catered to the nonbelievers about eating His flesh and drinking His blood?
Quote:
Exactly…it is ridiculous to have ANY church founded outside of Jesus own Church. So which one is it? Jesus Church or some man-made founded church?
Prosmith:
And how is that the RCC as it is today? Prove that it is precisely that. Read the Early Church Fathers and see if the Roman Catholic church looks anything more like the Early Church than most of Lutheranism. It doesn’t.
Come again? By the way, the church has always been Catholic,Roman is one rite out of 23.
 
I can speak for likely 99% of them and say that they believe that Salvation comes from and through the cross only.

Come on, this is really ridiculous. Some of you say 20,000 while others say 50,000. Which is it?
Ok, wiki … The independent source of all truth says 38,000. It’s in the middle so I suggest we use it as it’s a good compromise. All party’s must prove otherwise…😃

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations
 
Logically, if one church is right, then other churches that disagree must be wrong. For example, the Catholic Church and the Watchtower Society both claim to be the true church but disagree with each other. They can’t both be right.

Lots of denominations claim their church is the true church and teach that everyone else is wrong. What’s wrong with that? The Catholic Church says the same thing about their church.
Um…excuse me Senator, you did not address your statement.
You said:
I think many of the Protestant denominations (the ones that don’t agree with me) are wrong and*** aren’t being led by the Holy Spirit***.
How do you come to the conclusion that those Protestant denominations that
Don’t agree with me
are not being led by the Holy Spirit? What makes you think you and the Holy Spirit are on the same page?
 
Um…excuse me Senator, you did not address your statement.
You said:

How do you come to the conclusion that those Protestant denominations that

are not being led by the Holy Spirit? What makes you think you and the Holy Spirit are on the same page?
One of the many errors resulting from Protestanism.
 
Um…excuse me Senator, you did not address your statement.
You said:

How do you come to the conclusion that those Protestant denominations that

are not being led by the Holy Spirit? What makes you think you and the Holy Spirit are on the same page?
Leaving the CC out of the discussion: Do you believe the Holy Spirit guides people to believe different things, doctrinally speaking?
 
Leaving the CC out of the discussion: Do you believe the Holy Spirit guides people to believe different things, doctrinally speaking?
I gotta tell you, even in my younger radical independent fundamentalist Baptist days I would never have made a statement like that. Equating MY opinion with the Holy Spirit was, not drinking, but just DIVING into the Kool-aid barrell.
 
Do protestant Pastors claim to teach fallibly? If so then how can one know that they are speaking the truth regarding things like the Eucharist, for example?

Leaving the catholic church out of the discussion for the moment, does the Holy Spirit guide each respective church Pastor (church leadership) when it comes to doctrinal matters?

Or, is definitive truth, regarding conflicting teachings, simply unknowable in the protestant sphere?
Some churches believe the pastor has the Holy Spirit and can’t be wrong. Other pastors say their teaching is based on their interpretation of the Bible and say they could be wrong.
 
Some churches believe the pastor has the Holy Spirit and can’t be wrong. Other pastors say their teaching is based on their interpretation of the Bible and say they could be wrong.
What do you believe? Is truth, doctrinally speaking, knowable, and if so then by which church or individual?
 
I think you have to realize that some doctrines are more important than others. Many Protestants believe the Bible is clear on important, essential matters like salvation. In other less important matters, Christians are free to disagree with each other. I’ve heard many Protestants say Jehovah’s Witnesses aren’t Christians because they don’t believe in the Trinity. But I’ve never heard any Protestant curse anyone because of his choice of music or his opinion on the rapture.
 
I think you have to realize that some doctrines are more important than others. Many Protestants believe the Bible is clear on important, essential matters like salvation. In other less important matters, Christians are free to disagree with each other. I’ve heard many Protestants say Jehovah’s Witnesses aren’t Christians because they don’t believe in the Trinity. But I’ve never heard any Protestant curse anyone because of his choice of music or his opinion on the rapture.
Again.
How do you come to the conclusion that those Protestant denominations that
Don’t agree with me
are not being led by the Holy Spirit? What makes you think you and the Holy Spirit are on the same page?
 
What do you believe? Is truth, doctrinally speaking, knowable, and if so then by which church or individual?
I was taught and believed that God is one, that baptism must be done by full immersion and in the name of Jesus only, and that anyone who believed in the Trinity, was baptized by sprinkling or in the name of the Trinity was not a Christian and is going to Hell. I found out later that there were many different beliefs and that hardly anyone agrees with what I was taught. That is why I am studying the beliefs of different churches now and reading the church fathers.

I’ll quote the church father Irenaeus to state what I’m starting to believe at the moment:

“The Church, though dispersed throughout the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith: [She believes] in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His [future] manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father “to gather all things in one,” and to raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Savior, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, “every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess” to Him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all; that He may send “spiritual wickednesses,” and the angels who transgressed and became apostates, together with the ungodly, and unrighteous, and wicked, and profane among men, into everlasting fire; but may, in the exercise of His grace, confer immortality on the righteous, and holy, and those who have kept His commandments, and have persevered in His love, some from the beginning [of their Christian course], and others from [the date of] their repentance, and may surround them with everlasting glory.

As I have already observed, the Church, having received this preaching and this faith, although scattered throughout the whole world, yet, as if occupying but one house, carefully preserves it… For, although the languages of the world are dissimilar, yet the import of the tradition is one and the same. For the Churches which have been planted in Germany do not believe or hand down anything different, nor do those in Spain, nor those in Gaul, nor those in the East, nor those in Egypt, nor those in Libya, nor those which have been established in the central regions of the world. But as the sun, that creature of God, is one and the same throughout the whole world, so also the preaching of the truth shineth everywhere, and enlightens all men that are willing to come to a knowledge of the truth ((Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book 1, Ch. 10, AD 180)”

So there is one Christian faith taught by the apostles and agreement about a belief in one God, the Lord Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and salvation. The heresies Irenaeus condemned were those that disagreed with the rule of faith. I think Christians disagreed with each other on many other issues but were still considered Christian as long as they agreed on the basic, essential teaching of Jesus and the apostles.
 
Again.
How do you come to the conclusion that those Protestant denominations that

are not being led by the Holy Spirit? What makes you think you and the Holy Spirit are on the same page?
I think you must be misunderstanding me because I think everyone agrees with that. Doesn’t everyone think their beliefs are right and other beliefs are wrong? For example, if you believe that baptism is required for salvation, then how could you believe the Holy Spirit inspired other churches to teach that it is unnecessary?
 
I think you have to realize that some doctrines are more important than others. Many Protestants believe the Bible is clear on important, essential matters like salvation. In other less important matters, Christians are free to disagree with each other. I’ve heard many Protestants say Jehovah’s Witnesses aren’t Christians because they don’t believe in the Trinity. But I’ve never heard any Protestant curse anyone because of his choice of music or his opinion on the rapture.
I understand.👍 I was just curious as to what you believe? Is truth, doctrinally speaking, (be it more important or less important) actually knowable, and if so then how, considering the fact that Jesus is not here to tell us?
 
Doesn’t everyone think their beliefs are right and other beliefs are wrong? For example, if you believe that baptism is required for salvation, then how could you believe the Holy Spirit inspired other churches to teach that it is unnecessary?
Exactly. 👍
 
If there are multiple churches, then you go to the one that follows the Bible.
Xian -

You believe that you are attending a church that follows the bible. In John 6, we can see Jesus explaining the importance of receiving his flesh and blood in the Eucharist. Does your church follow this biblical teaching?

45 Everyone who listens to my Father and learns from him comes to me.
46 Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God; he has seen the Father.
47 Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
48 I am the bread of life.
49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died;
50 this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die.
51I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.”
52 The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us [his] flesh to eat?”
53 Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.
*
57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.
58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.”

Jesus even speaks to receiving the Eucharist in the prayer he taught us :

Our Father, Who art in heaven
Hallowed be Thy Name;
Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen.

Do you know what “give us this day our daily bread” means?
 
Dear Friends,

My Mom and her family were Baptist. Then along the way, I know not which or how, everyone decided to became Catholic. I broke away from the Catholic Church on my road to whatever for lack of a better word. ;] I’ve been a member of the Baptist faith when I was trying to find my path long ago, studied and wondered why so many sects in the Baptist Church? Broke from it when a Southern Baptist person told me dancing was wrong and my Mother (being Mexican marrying my Caucasian Father was a sin) I also studied the Mormon Religion, know about Methodist, and Jehovah Witness on my path of truly finding what God wanted. Or trying to find His voice in the true Church. Here too, I believe totally that God gives us the free will to choose. Just my opinion. With all the denominations at my fingertips I flew back “Home”. To be a Catholic again. I knew I found my place in this world when I came “Home”.

Now, I know too and truly understand that Jesus when He was on the earth was cut and dry, no grey areas about the Holy Father and what we were to believe. It made sense to me. I thought, God is my Supreme parent who tells us His rules through Christ since He made the world and they are such and such. Like my earthly parents. Do it my way or the highway to put it bluntly. Yet, some mankind said I refuse and I’m going to believe what I want to believe on the basis that I have a brain and can think for myself and Catholicism is too strict.

Furthermore, I will not deny that man also stepped in to convert some of God’s rules or leave out to suit themselves. That they listen to man because God sure didn’t say worship idols. Protestants believe Catholics worships idols, the Virgin Mother is equal to God and we worship saints because of our statues.

Plus, a lot of it is misinterpreting the Bible. Let me ask you this. How many times has a teacher read a paragraph out of a book and asks what is your take on it? And everyone had the exact perceptive when responding. Not always.

Oh moreover, another biggie Catholics get criticized over is that we ask our departed love ones for intervention in our prayer life. I don’t know about you but I think the thought of people who are CLOSER to God than I am have a hand up on the prayer line to Our Heavenly Father and I truly like the part that I can pray for intervention through our Holy Mother who by the way was born without sin so she’s High on the corporate ladder of the Prayer chain–metaphorically speaking. You ask for people to pray for you on earth, why not in Heaven? If you truly believe beloveds are in Heaven then communication with Jesus is open. Oh too, I know we can go to God directly and Jesus but Jesus did say, “When two or more are gathered in His Name. He is in our midst.” Fortifies our prayer with power. I believe that is for persons on earth and for whoever we pray to in Heaven.

""The Bible says that he has helpers that participate in His ministry by His invitation. We believe he has invited Christians on both sides of heaven to do that. When a saint enters into the joy of their Master, they are “put in charge of many things” (Mat 25:21) Saints are serious prayer warriors. I don’t think that praying with the Saints detracts from the worship of God anymore than praying with friends detracts from worship of God, which I do a lot. Saints are not all knowing, but they know a heck of a lot more about this spiritual game than me. They are creatures. This does not take away the tremendous benefit we can get from communing with them. Catholics think “their intercession is their most exalted service to God’s plan. We can and should ask them to intercede for us and for the whole world” (Catechism 2683) “” I read this from a site that I forgot the name of. Please know I do not take credit for it.

One more thing, I must say I love being a Catholic. I finally got confirmed when I was in my 40s. (Missed that one when I was young) And have never looked back. I’m heading towards my 60’s now. Yet, if I ever look back, it will to be to grab “your willing hand” and say, “Come along with me. You are in for the BEST ‘ride’ of your life.”😉

Love ya’ll lots,
Sheila is my real name and I’m going to love everyone in the world. Yes siree bob. ❤️

From the Southwest and I love it. yeehaww!:tiphat:
 
I think you must be misunderstanding me because I think everyone agrees with that. Doesn’t everyone think their beliefs are right and other beliefs are wrong? For example, if you believe that baptism is required for salvation, then how could you believe the Holy Spirit inspired other churches to teach that it is unnecessary?
Lets try this again.
A Catholic might say those denominations that don’t agree with the Catholic Church are not being led by the Spirit.
However YOU personalized it, not me or any other Catholic on this thread.
So again.
What makes you think YOU (the individual you) and the Holy Spirit are on the same page?
 
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