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stewstew03
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Well, as any Sola Scriptura proponent will tell you, PR, not EVERYthing…er… wait - never mind.“These are the other children of Mary of Nazareth” said no Bible verse. Ever.
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Porknpie
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PR -“These are the other children of Mary of Nazareth” said no Bible verse. Ever.
But Acts 1:15 shows Jesus had 120 “brothers”. ** And, this does not even account for his “sisters”. I assume that there were about 120 of them too.* So all told Jesus had 240 brothers and sisters. ***.
This could be good question for a new post…did Mary have 240 children?. 15 During those days Peter stood up in the midst of the brothers (there was a group of about one hundred and twenty persons in the one place). He said,
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PRmerger
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spitting my milk out in laughter!PR -
But Acts 1:15 shows Jesus had 120 “brothers”. ** And, this does not even account for his “sisters”. I assume that there were about 120 of them too.* So all told Jesus had 240 brothers and sisters. ***.
15 During those days Peter stood up in the midst of the brothers (there was a group of about one hundred and twenty persons in the one place). He said,
That, Porknpie, would be a good thread to lurk on.
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Hille
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James Cardinal Gibbons, deceased archbishop of Baltimore in his book “Faith of Our Fathers” , quote: “You may read the bible from Genesis to Revelation and you will not find one line authorizing Sunday. The scriptures sanctify Saturday, a day which we never sanctify”
Protestants do not go by the bible. They keep Sunday which they learned from the Roman Church. Those who go by the bible alone are not really protestants, though they get lumped in with them.
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PRmerger
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What are they then?
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ByzCathCantor
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“independent reformists”
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XianThinker
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Christian.
I’ve mostly attended non-denominational churches that follow the Bible alone. In the churches I’ve attended, we call ourselves Christian, not Protestant, Catholic, or any other denomination since the Bible says there should be “no divisions among you (1Cor 1:10).”
When I asked about traditional Protestant denominations like Lutherans I was told that Lutherans are more Catholic than Christian. People in these churches follow the Bible alone and many of them will tell you that Protestant denominations that follow tradition aren’t real Christians and need to get saved just as much as Catholics because they “have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men. (Mark 7:8)”
Claiming there are 50,000 or more denominations doesn’t help if the Christians you are trying to convert to Catholicism believe all denominations are bad and think Catholicism is one of the thousands of denominations opposed to the Bible.
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ByzCathCantor
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Indeed, he prayed that we would not be so divided. Yet, here we are.
Christian, though accurate at the foundation, regrettably does not accurately describe the means by which one pratices the Christian faith and remains united in Christ.
That’s an interesting claim, one which I have never heard from the mouth of a Lutheran. That said, there is no denying that we hold many of the same fundamental truths.
Meaning secular traditions (lower case “t”), not directed toward God.
Sacred Tradition is not the same, and there can be no denial that such was relied upon in the Apostlic age, guided by Christ. Christianty began to flourish before the Gospels were written, and surely well before the Canon of Holy Scripture was defined and affirmed.
Suggesting that faithful adherence to Sacred Tradition (as well as to Sacred Scripture) bars one from salvation is a global interpretation of the New Testament message (a/k/a the New and Everlasting Covenant) that is inconsistent with Christ’s most fundamental teachings and accomplishments.
But being less than honest about the degree to which the Body of Christ is divided does not help either.
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XianThinker
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Here are the reasons I was given:
- Although the Bible says to follow the apostles oral teaching (1Cor 11:2, 2Thess 2:15, 2Thess 3:6), the Bible has only bad things to say about tradition (Matt 15:3, Mark 7:8, Col 2:8).
- “from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. (1Tim 3:15, NIV)” Although the Bible doesn’t contain everything Jesus and the apostles taught, it contains everything necessary for salvation.
- “Do not go beyond what is written. (1Cor 4:6, NIV)" Whatever the apostles taught orally that was important and necessary for us to know must have been included in the Bible because we are not to go beyond what is written.
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XianThinker
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I was taught the earliest Christians in the 1st century relied on the apostles teaching while they were still alive. However, the apostles wrote everything down that was important and included it in the Bible for Christians to follow after the apostles passed away.
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ByzCathCantor
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They did? Why do we only have four Gospels and not twelve accounts?
And BTW - Luke was not counted among the Twelve, but rather was first a follower of Paul. In fact, it is only through his work (as Acts is ascribed to him) and the epistles that we have any idea what happened after the glorious Ascension.
I usually do not engage on these subjects, but for some reason was interested in your post in particular. Please forgive me if I am coming at your thoughts too strongly, as I do not mean to do so. I appreciate and respect your post articulating the reasons for your belief, and find it interesting that you phrased it as “reasons [you were] given”. I’m also making some assumptions based on your intriguing forum name, but have little doubt that you are a “thinker”.
Peace be with you!
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CopticChristian
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Xian,
The Apostles are not the only authors in the Bible. This sounds good. Ok, guys, we know we are going to die and what we are going to do is write this stuff down…I Peter will do this…Paul you take this…now don’t forget to put all your names in their so everyone knows who wrote what…we are going to need an easy reading guide for the future generations for all the important stuff that people need to follow. This will make it easy for each generation to come to the same understanding…got it:thumbsup:
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stewstew03
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So, on the one hand you boast that you call yourselves Christians because scripture says there should be “no divisions among you” BUT THEN…
There should be no divisions, and yet you divide? How do you reconcile that response in light of 1 Cor 1:10?
:doh2:
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stewstew03
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joe370
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If that is the case then why do sola scriptura advocates go beyond what is written by embracing the practice (tradition) of sola scriptura? Passages such as 2 Tim. 3 do not even implicitly support that practice.
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stewstew03
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Except Paul wasn’t an apostle, so it’s not clear that XT adheres to Paul’s writings; or maybe he/she considers Paul’s letters dicta.
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joe370
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As a former sola scriptura advocate, not going beyond what is written, I would have to ask you: where in scripture does it tell sola scriptura advocates, that the apostles wrote everything down that was important and included it in the Bible for Christians to follow after the apostles passed away?
2 Tim. 3 tells us that all scripture is inspired…Not only scripture…
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stewstew03
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Except the Councils at Hippo and Carthage “went beyond what is written” to develop the canon.
:bible1:
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XianThinker
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I went to non-denominational churches for years. I got confused after hearing all kinds of different beliefs and then learned about what Catholics really belief (instead of the lies I was taught in church) so I decided to study the Bible, Catholicism, and the early church fathers. I’m trying to figure out what Jesus and the apostles really taught and whether the Catholic Church is the one Jesus established.
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joe370
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He was not one of the 12, but he did view himself as an apostle:
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, according to the promise of life that is in Christ Jesus…2 Timothy 1
Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes… 1 Corinthians 1
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God in Corinth, together with all the saints throughout Achaia…2 Corinthians 1
Of course he didn’t see himself as worthy:
For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
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