Protestants will allegedly share the Eucharist at a Mass scheduled for 29th February at the Protestant Cathedral St Peter in Geneva Switzerland. This

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Here is a link to the declaration on the website of the Genevan Protestant Church (which, if memory serves, followed Pope Francis’ visit to the World Council of Churches). It’s in French, and I could look for a translation or cook one up myself, but not before tomorrow (it’s 11pm here, and I will be off to bed…)
 
Dovekin said:
Because bishops were given this authority, an argument based on Canon Law is weak.
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Are you saying Bishops can be/were told to put Canon law aside and do as they judge appropriate? That would, I suggest, require an authorizing “act” carrying the same weight as Canon law.
 
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I honestly don’t know what to say. In my country, Evangelical Christians tend to have pretty good relations with Catholics, and there is a lot of cooperation in spectrum of social issues such as being pro-life or stance on same-sex marriage etc. There has even been an Evangelical Bishop who would have liked to lead his flock to Catholic Church, apparently. Ecumenical ceremonies happen often, and Evangelical Pastor has even led one in Catholic church (building)… as well as Catholic one participating in service held at Evangelical church (building) (not sure how that went, couldn’t participate but heard nothing negative about it). Catholics and Protestants are invited to dine together after ceremonies (alternating between Catholic and Protestant places yearly). There is a lot of interesting stuff going on and relations between Priests are good…

That said, Catholics would never receive in Evangelical Church, neither would Evangelicals be allowed to receive in our Church. I am not sure what is their stance on this, and I know they practice open communion, but I know that Catholic Priest would not willingly administer Eucharist to Evangelical Christian. Canon law forbids this and for a good reason. Likewise, I know that Catholic laity is discouraged from receiving communion in Evangelical Church (and those who know about it do not do it, to my knowledge). This is not to say two communions have bad relations or anything, but reality is that there is no unity between us yet. This weird Ecumenical mess in Geneva will definitely have some impact on Ecumenism, and I don’t think it will be good one.
 
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Below is a quote from The Directory for the Application of the Principles and Norms of Ecumenism. This does not replace Canon Law, but is to guide the Church in how to understand the Law. Sometimes it is hard tell which is happening. But given the authority given to the bishop, I think it would be difficult to say a bishop has violated the law.
130 In case of danger of death, Catholic ministers may administer these sacraments when the conditions given below (n. 131) are present. In other cases, it is strongly recommended that the diocesan Bishop, taking into account any norms which may have been established for this matter by the Episcopal Conference or by the Synods of Eastern Catholic Churches, establish general norms for judging situations of grave and pressing need and for verifying the conditions mentioned below (n. 131). In accord with Canon Law, these general norms are to be established only after consultation with at least the local competent authority of the other interested Church or ecclesial Community. Catholic ministers will judge individual cases and administer these sacraments only in accord with these established norms, where they exist. Otherwise they will judge according to the norms of this Directory.

131 The conditions under which a Catholic minister may administer the sacraments of the Eucharist, of penance and of the anointing of the sick to a baptized person who may be found in the circumstances given above (n. 130) are that the person be unable to have recourse for the sacrament desired to a minister of his or her own Church or ecclesial Community, ask for the sacrament of his or her own initiative, manifest Catholic faith in this sacrament and be properly disposed.
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I am going to side step the issue of Protestants receiving Communion, other than to note the alleged distribution of Communion by then Cardinal Ratzinger to the head of L’Arche at John Paul II’s funeral Mass - a person close to John Paul, and known by Ratzinger.

But as a side note, baptized Christians who are joining the Church make their confession prior to Holy Saturday Night, when they make their profession of Faith. Why? Because they are validly baptized, and thus part of the Universal Church, although distanced because of Protestantism. That sacrament is available to them prior to their official “entry”. As to other sacraments, that is way above my pay grade, and I shall focus on matters over which I may have some influence.
 
A massive stretch to see application of that to the circumstances in the OP.
 
Weserthy said:
No. I don’t accept this argument that since the “priest or bishop allowed it, it must be OK.” Wrong is wrong, regardless of the level of one’s authority.
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Also @IanM and @Rau,

I don’t accept that argument either, but that wasn’t my argument!

If the pilot said to the passengers, “The weather is icy, but we’re in a hurry, so we’ll skip the de-icing and just hope for the best,” I would be worried. However, for now I do not assume that the pilot will do that.

My argument is that the bishop and priests know well what is allowed and how to carry it out, and they will do what is right at this ecumenical service on February 29. If this expectation of mine proves wrong, feel free to come back on March 1 and tell me that I was too trusting.
 
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Rau said:
A massive stretch to see application of that to the circumstances in the OP.
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Applying ecumenical principles to a situation of ecumenism.

VS

Accusing a bishop you don’t know of violating canon law.

I know which I think is a massive stretch.
 
I trust the bishop - as a Catholic, I believe I must be obedient to the hierarchy - I trust that the bishop knows what he is doing.

I have been to St Peter’s in Geneva - it is a beautiful building and I am very happy that Mass will be celebrated there. It is a very austere building and always sad to think that it used to be Catholic, but is not anymore.
 
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Weserthy said:
If they are indeed giving Protestants Catholic communion en masse, they are in clear violation of Canon Law
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I am replying to this.

I have explained that a great deal of authority is given to bishops in the Directory making “clear violation” a massive stretch.

I have no idea how this applies to the situation in the original post, except that the bishop made the decision, and he has a lot of authority in this situation.
 
Always interesting that they always try to find and exploit every exception in the book to give Protestants the Eucharist, but never offer to let them go to confession. Just another reason I don’t trust the motives of clergy that do this.
 
@Dovekin

I appreciate what you are trying to do, but sometimes a spoon is just a spoon. Knowingly giving communion to protestants isn’t astrophysics. There’s a difference between humility and pusillanimity, and considering the bishops themselves have acknowledged a problem with previous practices we don’t need to be coy about it.

There’s a reason a course correction is happening: because it has been recognized within the leadership that previous decisions weren’t the right and/or best decision despite whatever good intentions there may have been.

It’s not an easy or a comfortable decision to make when certain parts of Europe have a thick mix of Catholics and protestants and they have been living peacefully together for generations and there are a lot of interfaith marriage. Stuff happens. It happens here in the USA too but maybe not as widespread as a few regions in Europe that have a centuries-old mix that goes back a long ways in history. We can leave it at that.

Peace.
 
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I personally think this is more of a scandal for Protestantism. John Calvin must be rolling over in his grave. He likely would have excommunicated these Protestants and possibly even had them executed for such an act.
 
TK421 said:
I appreciate what you are trying to do, but sometimes a spoon is just a spoon.
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And sometimes a spoon is a cochlear, an instrument to facilitate communion with God.

What is you think I am trying to do? I think I am defending a pastoral effort from attacks by people who know little about the situation. I do not completely support this particular effort, but I do oppose attacking it based on the little information provided.

Thanks @OddBird for the link, though the corrected link below has no capricious kitties.

 
Dovekin said:
What is you think I am trying to do?
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I think you’re making a good faith effort to defend the honor of certain dioceses from something that you subjectively perceive as hostility. I admire that.

But again: the leadership itself has been changing course because it realizes past decisions are problematic. When something becomes normalized that shouldn’t have been normalized, people have a strong tendency to view it as a right or a given, which is why recent efforts to redirect Ecumenism in light of Canon Law and/or sounder theology have been difficult. But positive change is usually difficult and negative change is usually easy.

The Church wants union. Real union, not pretend union. In this respect, I think the future of the Church in Europe is optimistic. Perhaps not so much in numbers, but in beauty and truth.
 
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That’s interesting. 🙂 And do you speak french as fast as the french speak? I can understand when the french speak but I cannot speak french as fast as they do.
 
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