Protestants

[Thaddeus]

Annullments are granted by the Church founded by Jesus Christ, who He gave the power to bind and loose. It isn’t a loophole, it is a declaration that the marriage wasn’t valid in the first place - Like if it was a shotgun wedding, one spouse lied about wanting to have kids before the wedding, or one person was incapable of having sex. The Church can never annul a valid marriage.

 

[Burdock]

what about the wronged spouse. If a wife or husband has had an affair and they leave the marriage and as a result get divorced why should the innocent partner be denied communion.

 

[emeraldisle]

Speaking as an ex-Protestant I’ll give you my understanding of my family’s protestantism, in no particular order:

1. It’s easier. Make a one-time profession of faith and Bam! you’re saved.
2. It’s easier to ‘prove’ by simple, out-of-context, memorized one-liner Bible verses.
3. All of our extended families were Protestant. It’s part of the culture.
4. We, like most people, had only a vague idea of Church history. We knew we were right, so why bother learning history?
5. Simple prejudice. Catholics were different, 'nuff said.
6. The theology was simple. Let’s face it, understanding and doing justice to Catholic theology needs Scripture and an 800 page catechism.

I could go on, but you get the idea. Prejudice against different cultures, ignorance of history, not going deep into scripture, and laziness to pursue the truth were hallmarks my family’s faith.

All these reasons might give you a clue as to why all the Protestants here on this forum aren’t persuaded by our arguments
vindicating the Catholic faith—their faith is not rational, it’s based on an emotional experiernce/response to God. Think of all those Bible-thumping, heart-stirring sermons where not a dry-eye’s left in the house. That’s their faith—and overcoming emotional experiences with arguments rarely work.

So you state your subjective opinion about your family and then come to the conclusion that this reflects on ALL the protestants on this forum??

.

 

[jmcrae]

what about the wronged spouse. If a wife or husband has had an affair and they leave the marriage and as a result get divorced why should the innocent partner be denied communion.

They would only be denied communion if they started dating or got married to someone else without receiving a Declaration of Nullity for the first marriage.

Otherwise, they just go to Confession to confess whatever sins they may have committed before or during the divorce, and then they can go back to receiving Holy Communion. It is perfectly possible to remain single after a divorce; in the old days, that’s what people did.

 

[Lisa44]

Is infidelity a reason for the church to give an annulment?

 

[jmcrae]

Is infidelity a reason for the church to give an annulment?

It depends on when the infidelity occurred. If it occurred just prior to the wedding, it could be a factor, but if the person was being faithful at the time of the wedding, then it most likely would not, unless the reason for the infidelity was rooted in some condition that was present at the time of the wedding.

What the Tribunal does is they look at the conditions that were present at the time of the wedding. If there was anything going on that invalidates the marriage at that time, then the marriage is not valid. But once a marriage is validly contracted, there is nothing that can undo it, after the fact.

 

[Lisa44]

It depends on when the infidelity occurred. If it occurred just prior to the wedding, it could be a factor, but if the person was being faithful at the time of the wedding, then it most likely would not, unless the reason for the infidelity was rooted in some condition that was present at the time of the wedding.

What the Tribunal does is they look at the conditions that were present at the time of the wedding. If there was anything going on that invalidates the marriage at that time, then the marriage is not valid. But once a marriage is validly contracted, there is nothing that can undo it, after the fact.

Ok, I see I’m worried because I was married to a divorcee long before I ever became a Catholic. My husband and I are applying for an annulment for his first marriage. It is my fear that he will not get one and I’ll forever be on the ‘outside’ of the Catholic faith unable to go to communion or recieve the Eucharist.

My husbands first wife was unfaithful to him so he left her and took the kids.

 

[Lisa44]

what about the wronged spouse. If a wife or husband has had an affair and they leave the marriage and as a result get divorced why should the innocent partner be denied communion.

I don’t know. I guess the person is just supposed to put up with their spouse having a lover, if they are not allowed to leave the relationship.

 

[jmcrae]

I don’t know. I guess the person is just supposed to put up with their spouse having a lover, if they are not allowed to leave the relationship.

It’s not that they are not allowed to leave the relationship - if one or the other of the spouses is making the common life unbearable, the other spouse can and probably ought to leave.

What puts them out of communion with the Church is when they then attempt to remarry. It’s the remarriage that is the problem; not the civil divorce. Civil divorce can sometimes be necessary, but a divorce is not a second chance at marriage.

 

[Burdock]

why shouldent the innocent party remarry if its not their fault.

 

[jmcrae]

why shouldent the innocent party remarry if its not their fault.

Assuming the existence of an “innocent party,” in the first place - it’s because marriage isn’t a reward for being good; it’s a life long covenant that can only occur between the same two people in one lifetime.

 

[Wirraway]

Hi

I just don’t get it at all. I mean, come on, there was not even a protestant church until Luther, and that was only 500 years ago. Protestantism has been around for a 1/4 of what Catholicism has, and yet protestants act as though their religion has been around for such a long time. Many talk bad about Catholics for no reason, and never have any idea what they are talking about. Besides Luther, what caused all this? How do people get convinced so easily that somehow the church that was the one and only church for so long was all of a sudden wrong, just because a man said so? Im sorry if i have offended any protestants, but if this is the case…just ask yourself if it makes one bit of sense.

just so you know, you’re preaching to the choir here. if this is a fair summary of your understanding of protestantland, there are protestant apologists who would have you for breakfast.

 

[coleraine]

So you state your subjective opinion about your family and then come to the conclusion that this reflects on ALL the protestants on this forum??

.

hay, one of those reasons is bound to be the cause. Just blind ignorance. ignorance which covers a whole deal of things, so yes, i believe it does reflect to protestants. i cant speak for him, but i do think he would agree.

 

[coleraine]

just so you know, you’re preaching to the choir here. if this is a fair summary of your understanding of protestantland, there are protestant apologists who would have you for breakfast.

I just wanted to address something that i see as ever more prevalent. Its plain and simple, protestants are heretics. And i think we need to hit hard. No more “well…if thats what you think…whatever.” no, tell them all the facts. the indisputable facts, and if they still cannot see, its all up to god cause’ thats one hard head.

 

[Wirraway]

I just wanted to address something that i see as ever more prevalent. Its plain and simple, protestants are heretics. And i think we need to hit hard. No more “well…if thats what you think…whatever.” no, tell them all the facts. the indisputable facts, and if they still cannot see, its all up to god cause’ thats one hard head.

good luck with that tactic: “you’re a heretic, and, by the way, why not convert?”

my wife is a “heretic”, although after years of praying about it, she’s about to start RCIA. if I had ever “hit hard” and demanded that she accept “indisputable facts”, she’d remain protestant. try leading by example. as much wealth as there is on this website, I discourage her from browsing here because of the strident haranguing tone of threads like this one.

 

[coleraine]

good luck with that tactic: “you’re a heretic, and, by the way, why not convert?”

my wife is a “heretic”, although after years of praying about it, she’s about to start RCIA. if I had ever “hit hard” and demanded that she accept “indisputable facts”, she’d remain protestant. try leading by example. as much wealth as there is on this website, I discourage her from browsing here because of the strident haranguing tone of threads like this one.

look, im not talking to protestants right now. im talking to you guys. im not going to walk up to a protestant and just say “by the way…your a heretic” my whole point is that when we are attacked on here, we should respond in the right way. tell them the facts, all of them. all of the history of the church. I am sorry i have offended you, but it seems to me that every time a protestant comes on here attacking us, we are not very effective. from many of the recent ones i have seen, we have gotten of course and the thread starter is far from convinced. and about your wife, she is a catechuman, i think its called, and it may be beneficial for her to go on this site, so she can learn even more about the herecies of protestantism, and start talking to non-catholics on here, as i did about 3 years ago. Yah, i was there too.

 

[coleraine]

Just a quick message to new viewers, this thread was intended for the catholics on here. i was not trying to be hateful. i posted this because i am tired of people coming on here, challenging us, and then thinking they won just because we cant get something across…because they wont listen. and when i say “hit hard” i dont mean we should be blatantly disrespectful, i mean we should be to the point, and work together. try to avoid drifting, you know keep confidence. of course it is not up to me how things work, i was just voicing an opinion. and try to keep in mind that i am talking about those who come to us to challenge us. By all means there is no reason not to have a casual back and forth with a non-catholic friend, i do that myself all the time.

 

[Michael_Francis]

***This thread is deviating from it’s topic which is Protestantism, not divorces, annulments, etc etc.

Please get back on topic and carry on or the thread will be closed.***

 

[Wirraway]

look, im not talking to protestants right now. im talking to you guys. im not going to walk up to a protestant and just say “by the way…your a heretic” my whole point is that when we are attacked on here, we should respond in the right way. tell them the facts, all of them. all of the history of the church. I am sorry i have offended you, but it seems to me that every time a protestant comes on here attacking us, we are not very effective. from many of the recent ones i have seen, we have gotten of course and the thread starter is far from convinced. and about your wife, she is a catechuman, i think its called, and it may be beneficial for her to go on this site, so she can learn even more about the herecies of protestantism, and start talking to non-catholics on here, as i did about 3 years ago. Yah, i was there too.

ok, I get your point. I was misreading you. no offense taken.

I haven’t been here long enough to see it, but its got to be frustrating to get attacked at home. my best guess is that people who come here to attack are just trolls looking for an angry response.

I got her along this far without mentioning “heretics”, except for my favorite heretics, the donatists.

 

[coleraine]

ok, I get your point. I was misreading you. no offense taken.

I haven’t been here long enough to see it, but its got to be frustrating to get attacked at home. my best guess is that people who come here to attack are just trolls looking for an angry response.

I got her along this far without mentioning “heretics”, except for my favorite heretics, the donatists.

yes, most who come here to attack us are trolls. my objective is to somehow crack the lead bubble around their mind, which has been filled with the same old quotes from their pastors. And i think the only way to do that is if everyone plays a part in the threads, providing evidence and reason. thanks for understanding.