Protestants

[wmscott]

I have to say, not all Southern Baptist think of Catholics that way. I previously thought Catholicism definitely not for me as I disagreed with some aspects of it before I took the time to research some things :doh2:. But I was never taught the CC was evil. I scoffed at many things about the CC and debated my husband over and over, but I have seen the light and am coming around nowadays. My disregard to the CC was built on years of misinformation and ignnorance. It’s too bad Catholics in my area don’t evangelize more to get the word out on what they do believe, it’d be helpful.

I agree that not all SBs or even Protestants in general think of Catholics as evil, but my experience was what it was, anti-Catholic. My Dad and stepmother are SBs and do not act or think this way. in fact there are very supportive and defend our faith from ignorance.

 

[JRKH]

I think I would agree the Christian life is marked by a life of repentance and faith. However, everything in the Christian life including repentance and faith flows from the grace of God. I believe the grace of God that is available to Christians were merited by the person and work of Christ. Salvation is truly a process. I think if we truly understand each other’s theology, we are not that far apart.

I agree. I have posted the following on a number of threads and will share it here as well.

Belief, Grace, Faith, Love and Works are interwoven pieces. They cannot be separated. They can only be placed in “order”.

1. We begin with Grace. Grace is the supernatural foundation. The “seed” that God plants in every soul that enables it to find it’s way back to God.
2. Then comes Belief. We must believe in something before anything else. If we do not believe in God, then the seed of Grace will not grow.
3. After Belief comes Faith. The difference between belief and faith, is simply this: I may believe in the existance of banks, but do I have faith in them. Faith gets into trusting and believing in the promises of God and believing in Jesus Christ and salvation through doing the will of the Father. Learning and developing our faith is nurturing and allowing the seed of God’s grace to grow in us.
4. Then Comes Love. Jesus places Love as the Greatest and center of all of the Law and prophets. What we Love and covet is how we know “where our heart is”. If we Love God and wish to do His will, then we will Love our neighbor unselfishly and wish to act in ways that are pleasing to our love - who is God Himself.
5. Then comes Works. If we believe properly, that is we have a trusting belief, then works will necessarily follow. If works do not follow then there is a problem with one of the above.

Of course all of these things being interwoven, they can come in varying intensities at varying times to each individual, but this seems to me to be the best “Ordinate line” for the parts.

Peace
James

 

[Anna_Scott]

I agree. I have posted the following on a number of threads and will share it here as well.

Belief, Grace, Faith, Love and Works are interwoven pieces. They cannot be separated. They can only be placed in “order”.

1. We begin with Grace. Grace is the supernatural foundation. The “seed” that God plants in every soul that enables it to find it’s way back to God.
2. Then comes Belief. We must believe in something before anything else. If we do not believe in God, then the seed of Grace will not grow.
3. After Belief comes Faith. The difference between belief and faith, is simply this: I may believe in the existance of banks, but do I have faith in them. Faith gets into trusting and believing in the promises of God and believing in Jesus Christ and salvation through doing the will of the Father. Learning and developing our faith is nurturing and allowing the seed of God’s grace to grow in us.
4. Then Comes Love. Jesus places Love as the Greatest and center of all of the Law and prophets. What we Love and covet is how we know “where our heart is”. If we Love God and wish to do His will, then we will Love our neighbor unselfishly and wish to act in ways that are pleasing to our love - who is God Himself.
5. Then comes Works. If we believe properly, that is we have a trusting belief, then works will necessarily follow. If works do not follow then there is a problem with one of the above.

Of course all of these things being interwoven, they can come in varying intensities at varying times to each individual, but this seems to me to be the best “Ordinate line” for the parts.

Peace
James

Very well said, James.

 

[patricius79]

Dear Former Protestants, Thanks for your heartwarming testmonies. I am frustrated by anti-Catholic myths and stereotypes–even from people who are just parroting what they have heard-- though I agree with the latest post to the effect that some Catholics also are arrogant or come off arrogantly, either through being “ethnic Catholics” not really practicing, or through their own “issues”, which we all bring to the table, any table. In either case, my point is that it is nice to hear positive things from former protestants.

 

[Follow_Yeshua]

I agree. I have posted the following on a number of threads and will share it here as well.

Belief, Grace, Faith, Love and Works are interwoven pieces. They cannot be separated. They can only be placed in “order”.

1. We begin with Grace. Grace is the supernatural foundation. The “seed” that God plants in every soul that enables it to find it’s way back to God.
2. Then comes Belief. We must believe in something before anything else. If we do not believe in God, then the seed of Grace will not grow.
3. After Belief comes Faith. The difference between belief and faith, is simply this: I may believe in the existance of banks, but do I have faith in them. Faith gets into trusting and believing in the promises of God and believing in Jesus Christ and salvation through doing the will of the Father. Learning and developing our faith is nurturing and allowing the seed of God’s grace to grow in us.
4. Then Comes Love. Jesus places Love as the Greatest and center of all of the Law and prophets. What we Love and covet is how we know “where our heart is”. If we Love God and wish to do His will, then we will Love our neighbor unselfishly and wish to act in ways that are pleasing to our love - who is God Himself.
5. Then comes Works. If we believe properly, that is we have a trusting belief, then works will necessarily follow. If works do not follow then there is a problem with one of the above.

Of course all of these things being interwoven, they can come in varying intensities at varying times to each individual, but this seems to me to be the best “Ordinate line” for the parts.

Peace
James

James! I believe that too! Very strong post!

 

[happilycatholic]

I agree. I have posted the following on a number of threads and will share it here as well.

Belief, Grace, Faith, Love and Works are interwoven pieces. They cannot be separated. They can only be placed in “order”.

1. We begin with Grace. Grace is the supernatural foundation. The “seed” that God plants in every soul that enables it to find it’s way back to God.
2. Then comes Belief. We must believe in something before anything else. If we do not believe in God, then the seed of Grace will not grow.
3. After Belief comes Faith. The difference between belief and faith, is simply this: I may believe in the existance of banks, but do I have faith in them. Faith gets into trusting and believing in the promises of God and believing in Jesus Christ and salvation through doing the will of the Father. Learning and developing our faith is nurturing and allowing the seed of God’s grace to grow in us.
4. Then Comes Love. Jesus places Love as the Greatest and center of all of the Law and prophets. What we Love and covet is how we know “where our heart is”. If we Love God and wish to do His will, then we will Love our neighbor unselfishly and wish to act in ways that are pleasing to our love - who is God Himself.
5. Then comes Works. If we believe properly, that is we have a trusting belief, then works will necessarily follow. If works do not follow then there is a problem with one of the above.

Of course all of these things being interwoven, they can come in varying intensities at varying times to each individual, but this seems to me to be the best “Ordinate line” for the parts.

Peace
James

God Bless You James,

HC

 

[2nd_Adam]

I agree. I have posted the following on a number of threads and will share it here as well.

Belief, Grace, Faith, Love and Works are interwoven pieces. They cannot be separated. They can only be placed in “order”.

1. We begin with Grace. Grace is the supernatural foundation. The “seed” that God plants in every soul that enables it to find it’s way back to God.
2. Then comes Belief. We must believe in something before anything else. If we do not believe in God, then the seed of Grace will not grow.
3. After Belief comes Faith. The difference between belief and faith, is simply this: I may believe in the existance of banks, but do I have faith in them. Faith gets into trusting and believing in the promises of God and believing in Jesus Christ and salvation through doing the will of the Father. Learning and developing our faith is nurturing and allowing the seed of God’s grace to grow in us.
4. Then Comes Love. Jesus places Love as the Greatest and center of all of the Law and prophets. What we Love and covet is how we know “where our heart is”. If we Love God and wish to do His will, then we will Love our neighbor unselfishly and wish to act in ways that are pleasing to our love - who is God Himself.
5. Then comes Works. If we believe properly, that is we have a trusting belief, then works will necessarily follow. If works do not follow then there is a problem with one of the above.

Of course all of these things being interwoven, they can come in varying intensities at varying times to each individual, but this seems to me to be the best “Ordinate line” for the parts.

Peace
James

Thanks for sharing this, but I really don’t see it that way. Here is the biblical way of salvation. While we were spirituality dead, God made us alive. The chain of salvation begins with those whom God presdestined, those who are called, those whom God foreknew. It has nothing to do with us, and our ability to make ourselves spirituality alive. A spirituality dead man cannot respond to God’s grace.

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written,

“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom 8

 

[JRKH]

Thanks for sharing this, but I really don’t see it that way. Here is the biblical way of salvation. While we were spirituality dead, God made us alive. The chain of salvation begins with those whom God presdestined, those who are called, those whom God foreknew. It has nothing to do with us, and our ability to make ourselves spirituality alive. A spirituality dead man cannot respond to God’s grace.

I don’t think that what you have said here particularly undercuts what I wrote. It may siomply be that you are looking at what God has done for us, where I am looking at our response to God’s Gift.
Yes, God has revived us by Grace. That Grace is freely Given and then we, through our free will, may respond to that grace or not.
I will also agree that there are people who are “spiritually dead”, or at least give every indication that they are, but we cannot know for sure who these people are. Only God has such foreknowledge. Therefore it is up to us to respond, as best we are able, to God’s freely given and undeserved Grace.

Peace
James

 

[Anna_Scott]

I don’t think that what you have said here particularly undercuts what I wrote. It may siomply be that you are looking at what God has done for us, where I am looking at our response to God’s Gift.

Yes, God has revived us by Grace. That Grace is freely Given and then we, through our free will, may respond to that grace or not.
I will also agree that there are people who are “spiritually dead”, or at least give every indication that they are, but we cannot know for sure who these people are. Only God has such foreknowledge. Therefore it is up to us to respond, as best we are able, to God’s freely given and undeserved Grace.

Peace
James

James: It’s good to run into you again. As you can see, I came back to the Forums.

2nd Adam: I am glad to see you quote more Scripture on this Thread.

James: 2nd Adam made reference to the website: Monergism.com

I am a Christian in the Protestant Sector. I find the beliefs of Monergism to be radical, and I do not accept them. 2nd Adam claims the assertions of Monergism are the positions of “Historic Protestantism.”

These are some quotes from monergism.com/our_faith.php

“God saves us by grace alone, through faith alone, and this faith is not produced by our unregenerated human nature.”

“God disarms the opposition of the human heart, subduing the hostility of the carnal mind, and with irresistible power (John 6:37), draws His chosen ones to Christ.”

“As such, man is utterly incapable of saving himself, or even to cooperate with God in his salvation. . . .his “free will” will always choose to reject God, apart from God’s grace.”

“Our conversion to Christ was not a joint venture between us and God, but a unilateral move on God’s part to raise us from spiritual death to spiritual life, changing our hearts so that we believed and repented.”

“God is not an equal opportunity Savior. Indeed, from Abraham on, God has always shown more mercy to one people than to another.”

“This pretemporal choice was not based on the fact that God knew which persons would believe of their own free will, for there is no person which fits that description. This decision was based upon God’s sovereign good pleasure alone.”

“Therefore, if a person has been effectually called and drawn to Christ, he will never lose that salvation since it was based wholly on the finished work of Christ and God’s election, not on the strength of the believers commitment or obedience.”

In the view of Monergism, there is no free will. It is a fatalistic view of salvation, and a rather depressing one at that.

In Christ,
Anna

 

[2nd_Adam]

James: It’s good to run into you again. As you can see, I came back to the Forums.

2nd Adam: I am glad to see you quote more Scripture on this Thread.

James: 2nd Adam made reference to the website: Monergism.com

I am a Christian in the Protestant Sector. I find the beliefs of Monergism to be radical, and I do not accept them. 2nd Adam claims the assertions of Monergism are the positions of “Historic Protestantism.”

In the view of Monergism, there is no free will. It is a fatalistic view of salvation, and a rather depressing one at that.

In Christ,
Anna

Anna,

Do you have any idea what John Calvin and Martin Luther believed about free will and predestination? If Monergism.com does not represent historic Protestantism, then please teach me what the Protesant Reformers believed? Are you familar with the historical Protestant Confessions such as the Westimster Confession of Fath, or the London Baptist Confesson of 1689. Even the 39 Articles of the historic Anglican Faith lines up with Luther and Calvin on predestination and imputed righteousness in regards to justification. You might want to read Martin Luther’s book called “Bondage of the will” to see what he believed in regards to the will of man.

amazon.com/Bondage-Will-Martin-Luther/dp/1420933426/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1252824088&sr=8-1

Editorial Reviews

Product Description

Written in 1525 in response to the writings of Erasmus, “The Bondage of the Will” conveys Luther’s beliefs on the issue of free will during the Protestant Reformation. Because of the fall of man, he debates with Erasmus on whether or not human beings are free to decide on good or evil. He asserts in this well written and uniquely styled work that we are incapacitated by sin, and human beings must rely on the complete sovereignty of God to redeem us and bring about our salvation. Because man is dictated by Satan, he must be saved entirely by God, and this liberation should lead to the service of God. Considered a masterpiece of Reformation literature, Luther’s writing is a combination of deep theological thought with a gentle humor and a refreshing directness. Because of its primary position in Reformation doctrine, “The Bondage of the Will” is a vital link in understanding the ideas of Luther and his place in the Christian tradition.

 

[Anna_Scott]

James: It’s good to run into you again. As you can see, I came back to the Forums.

2nd Adam: I am glad to see you quote more Scripture on this Thread.

James: 2nd Adam made reference to the website: Monergism.com

I am a Christian in the Protestant Sector. I find the beliefs of Monergism to be radical, and I do not accept them. 2nd Adam claims the assertions of Monergism are the positions of “Historic Protestantism.”

These are some quotes from monergism.com/our_faith.php

“God saves us by grace alone, through faith alone, and this faith is not produced by our unregenerated human nature.”

Anna,

Do you have any idea what John Calvin and Martin Luther believed about free will and predestination? If Monergism.com does not represent historic Protestantism, then please teach me what the Protesant Reformers believed? Are you familar with the historical Protestant Confessions such as the Westimster Confession of Fath, or the London Baptist Confesson of 1689. Even the 39 Articles of the historic Anglican Faith lines up with Luther and Calvin on predestination and imputed righteousness in regards to justification. You might want to read Martin Luther’s book called “Bondage of the will” to see what he believed in regards to the will of man.

amazon.com/Bondage-Will-Martin-Luther/dp/1420933426/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1252824088&sr=8-1

Editorial Reviews

Product Description

Written in 1525 in response to the writings of Erasmus, “The Bondage of the Will” conveys Luther’s beliefs on the issue of free will during the Protestant Reformation. Because of the fall of man, he debates with Erasmus on whether or not human beings are free to decide on good or evil. He asserts in this well written and uniquely styled work that we are incapacitated by sin, and human beings must rely on the complete sovereignty of God to redeem us and bring about our salvation. Because man is dictated by Satan, he must be saved entirely by God, and this liberation should lead to the service of God. Considered a masterpiece of Reformation literature, Luther’s writing is a combination of deep theological thought with a gentle humor and a refreshing directness. Because of its primary position in Reformation doctrine, “The Bondage of the Will” is a vital link in understanding the ideas of Luther and his place in the Christian tradition.

2nd Adam:

I think you misunderstood my post. It is not my intention to argue whether or not “Monergism” accurately represents the positions of “Historic Protestantism.”

I simple do not accept the assertions of Monergism; because, I do not think there is a Scriptural basis for Monergism.

As I said, “In the view of Monergism, there is no free will. It is a fatalistic view of salvation, and a rather depressing one at that.”

 

[lil_flower_luv]

That statement hits the nail on the head. Very few outside of the Catholic Church know anything about the Church. Their knowledge of the Church is what has been told to them by friends, family and even their pastors. If only they would take the time to learn the truth you wouldn’t be having this problem and prehaps we wouldn’t have all these different churches teaching different things. We’d all be Catholic again as it was before.

Amen!

 

[sckcd]

That statement hits the nail on the head. ** Very few outside of the Catholic Church know anything about the Church**. Their knowledge of the Church is what has been told to them by friends, family and even their pastors. If only they would take the time to learn the truth you wouldn’t be having this problem and prehaps we wouldn’t have all these different churches teaching different things. We’d all be Catholic again as it was before.

Yes that is true. But this could be avoided if Catholics did more to share their faith. Other than my husband asking me to go to Mass one time 8 years ago, I have never had a Catholic share their faith with me, invite me to church, etc. There isn’t much outreach at all in my area from Catholics, which is sad. I am liking what I am finding in the Church, but it’s too bad I am just now finding this out. That will help against misconceptions.

 

[Bill_Pick]

What is wrong with Southern Baptists? I will be starting RCIA in a couple of weeks, and have been wanting to ‘officially’ join the Church for quite sometime.

The ‘pastor’ is wanting to come to my home and visit with my wife and I and try to talk some ‘sense’ into us. The entire baptist church we stopped attending regularly along time ago is wanting to pray for us because we are leaving Christianity.

My mother tells me I am parting from the religion of my upbringing! I have talked hours upon end how this is not so, but to no avail.

She told me the pastor preached on Catholics this past Sunday and I should have been there to hear it. Catholics just ain’t right because they can’t pray to God, a priest has to do it for them! I say “That’s a lie!” But of course it’s believed!

I wish my family could just be happy for me, because my wife, son and I are all happy to finally be joining the one true Church that Jesus Christ founded.

Have others experienced this same thing ? Why do you Protestants do this?

Most cathloics believe cathloic think they are saved by works,we believe in purgatory they do not,are belife on the Eucharist is wrong,that we worship Mary,we have a Baptism of infants, a priest can not have forgiveness of our sins.Papacy /infallibility we horon Statues and images and relics. We drink to much at partys,if it Cathloic it s wrong and they have preacher preacing agaist the Cathloic Church,the CC is just evil

 

[JRKH]

James: It’s good to run into you again. As you can see, I came back to the Forums.

2nd Adam: I am glad to see you quote more Scripture on this Thread.

James: 2nd Adam made reference to the website: Monergism.com

I am a Christian in the Protestant Sector. I find the beliefs of Monergism to be radical, and I do not accept them. 2nd Adam claims the assertions of Monergism are the positions of “Historic Protestantism.”

In the view of Monergism, there is no free will. It is a fatalistic view of salvation, and a rather depressing one at that.

In Christ,
Anna

I agree Anna,
Such things negate the Great Gift to Free Will which God has given us.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Yes that is true. But this could be avoided if Catholics did more to share their faith. Other than my husband asking me to go to Mass one time 8 years ago, I have never had a Catholic share their faith with me, invite me to church, etc. There isn’t much outreach at all in my area from Catholics, which is sad. I am liking what I am finding in the Church, but it’s too bad I am just now finding this out. That will help against misconceptions.

I think that this is true, and I hope that it will be changing in the not too distant future as wonderful converts such as yourself teach us how to do a beeter job of reaching out.

Of course one of the problems for the Catholic church I think is that, due to it’s age and richness of faith, it can be difficult to convey in the “Sound bite” way that the “evangelicals” do. I don’t think that such types of outreach will work.

And, speaking of the “soundbite” methodology, an anticatholic can make a “Soundbite” comment about the Church that can take many paragraphs to clear up, thus those spewing Anti-catholic rubbish can easily “hit and run” leaving wounds of doubt that only careful treatment (explanation) will heal. Unfortunately too many people don’t even know they are injured.

Peace
James

 

[Bill_Pick]

It’s not a newfound faith. Just something thats being done ‘officially’ for lack of a better word.

Ask some good question and get good answer drom your RCIA person and you will die a good Cathloic THE CATHLOIC CHURCH DOES NOT PREACH ANY THING AGAINST THE BIBLE

 

[humble_maid]

Not all Protestants are ignorant bigots. Just like not all Catholics are either. I cannot tell you how many posts I have read on this site that have made me feel alienated and less than worthy, due to my not being a member of the “true” church.
Many people have misconceptions about the CC. I know I have had, but I am trying to learn about it so I can sort out the differences before I decided what to do. The biggest reason I think there are misconceptions is because a person could not walk in off the street and attend a service and know what it going on. It’s very exclusive in that if you are not Catholic you feel very out of place and that is an unsettling feeling. That’s my view, anyway. Good luck on your issue.

How true! I hope your road is blessed and that you find much comfort in our church.
It’s funny though you mentionned it that I too feel out of place with other denominational churches; though it is mostly our perception. You are always welcomed in the CC. The CC was used as a sanctuary and still is for those seeking refuge regardless of their ethnicity, faith background etc.

God Bless.

 

[humble_maid]

All I can give in my humble opinion is to show them that you are sincere and offer them answers when needed.

I studied for many years with different protestant religions; yes I questionned my own faith. I was soul searching; however I did give the benefit of the doubt to the CC.

I was surrounded by protestants who in the end only had very negative views and comments about the CC. At first I thought them to be warranted but then through much deliberation, fact finding and bible studying and prayer, the Holy Spirit revealed to me the truth. It goes without saying that I made friends with them and truly care for them.

I feel at peace since I embraced my church again. There are some bumps on the road but I have trust in Jesus and His Holy Saints who are a perfect example to our church.

God Bless.

 

[dnar]

How true! I hope your road is blessed and that you find much comfort in our church.
It’s funny though you mentionned it that I too feel out of place with other denominational churches; though it is mostly our perception. You are always welcomed in the CC. The CC was used as a sanctuary and still is for those seeking refuge regardless of their ethnicity, faith background etc.

God Bless.

I am like yall, I find much comfort in the Catholic Church, so much more than any Protestant denomination I have ever been a part of or visited.