Proud, Haughty, Arrogant repeatedly mentioned in Bible, Homosexuality hardly ever

[Br.Dan_OCD]

Three points I’d like to make:

–I agree with the previous post. I don’t see or hear anyone extolling pride and arrogance and haughtiness. I see and hear many people extolling sexual immorality. It might be true that these issues are symptoms of deeper disorders but you have to stop the bleeding before you remove the bullet, so to speak. Or, maybe you don’t. If not, another medical analogy will do.

–I don’t think it is true that many people talk about sexual sins because they have no temptation in that regard. The opposite is more true, i think. Many, many people have taken the downhill road into sexual license and have been converted and now don’t want others to go through what they did.

–The Catechism says: “Sexuality affects all aspects of the human person in the unity of his body and soul. It especially concerns affectivity, the capacity to love and to procreate, and in a more general way the aptitude for forming bonds of communion with others.” #2332 That’s very far-reaching.

 

[Brendan]

Pride and Arrogoance are the corner stone of all sin, including homosexuality.

We place our personal desires above the desires of God, in effect, saying we know ourselves better than God does.

That is evil Pride, pure and simple, and it true for a myriad of sin, theft, fornication, gluttony, homosexuality all of them.

That is why is is condemmed so often in the Bible, because it so prevelant in all the other sins.

 

[fix]

We would be hard pressed to find some more arrogant and prideful than those who promote homosexual sex, contraception, abortion, etc. Most who publicly claim these are normal, good and a right also claim to be on the side of morality and justice.

What does the bible say about those who would lead others astray?

 

[JP2Admirer]

God embued humanity with the gift of procreation, and in fact, it is the first command He gives Adam and Eve (be fruitful and multiply.) The fact that it was His first instruction I think says something about it’s supremacy. God wants us to be procreative. It is a gift of being in His likeness

He put in us the power of creation, which is something that makes us God-like. We have the ability through His gift to create subjects with a soul.

Sexual union serves two functions, pro-creation and unity. To separate the two is to divorce the act from its meaning. To divorce the act from its meaning is to divorce it from its source (God) and is in direct opposition to His first instruction.

In short, homosexuality and contraception turn off the faucet of life and the result is a culture of death. It is an attempt to block God. To play with or alter the meaning of sexuality is an attempt to remove the source of life. It is man trying to make himself God’s equal, the same as our first sin. This is why Christians are so zealous in guarding traditional marriage and opposing “unnatural” relations. Homosexuality and contraception are eating of the forbidden fruit.

 

[Werner]

WhiteDove:

In reading Psalms, Proverbs, and the Gospels, I see that there are repeated references to the proud, the mighty, the haughty. It is an ongoing Biblical theme. Christ will scatter the proud, cast down the mighty and lift up the lowly.

On the other hand, sexual matters are not overly emphasized. Homosexuality is mentioned a few times, but it’s not a reccurent theme whatsoever.

But, it seems as if a lot of Christians worry a lot about the sexual sins of others. All the while, many adulate powerful media personalities or political leaders.

Don’t get me wrong, I think sexual purity is one important aspect of the spiritual life. But I see some hypocrisy and incongruity here. Any thoughts?

Well, it is quite easy for somebody who is heterosexual to rant against homosexuality when knowing exactly that it is always “the others” and never one himself who is comitting this sin.

On the other side if somebody is complaining too much about pride, might, and haughtiness sooner or later he will be measured by his own standards, and who likes that?

So ranting against homosexuality allows you very conveniently to set the standards as high as possible without the possibility of ever having to follow them yourself, what else do you want?

Just always keep in mind what Jesus Christ said about homosexuality:
… not one single word.

Werner

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Sexual sins aren’t limited to homosexual ones.

Fornication and adultery leap to mind. Lust, occasions of sin. . .provocative clothing and gestures, impure images are experienced by heterosexual and homosexual alike.

And let’s remember what Jesus said to the woman who had been caught in a sexual sin.

“Go. . .and sin no more.”

 

[fix]

Werner:

Well, it is quite easy for somebody who is heterosexual to rant against homosexuality when knowing exactly that it is always “the others” and never one himself who is comitting this sin.

On the other side if somebody is complaining too much about pride, might, and haughtiness sooner or later he will be measured by his own standards, and who likes that?

So ranting against homosexuality allows you very conveniently to set the standards as high as possible without the possibility of ever having to follow them yourself, what else do you want?

Just always keep in mind what Jesus Christ said about homosexuality:
… not one single word.

Werner

Christ never spoke about homosexual acts? Perhaps the word homosexual was not recorded in the bible has coming directly from His lips, but that does not mean He did not speak against it. Do you accept Sola Scriptura? Do you think Christ approves of sodomy because the bible does not record Him using the exact words do not sodomize? Is that what some call the “new” morality?

 

[WhiteDove]

Werner:

Well, it is quite easy for somebody who is heterosexual to rant against homosexuality when knowing exactly that it is always “the others” and never one himself who is comitting this sin.

On the other side if somebody is complaining too much about pride, might, and haughtiness sooner or later he will be measured by his own standards, and who likes that?

So ranting against homosexuality allows you very conveniently to set the standards as high as possible without the possibility of ever having to follow them yourself, what else do you want?

Just always keep in mind what Jesus Christ said about homosexuality:
… not one single word.

Werner

Yes, I think that’s my point. I agree wholeheartedly about the evils of the Homosexual lobby, and I’m sure there is quite a bit of pride involved. I also agree with a lot of what Chuck said. I think our media has a lot of arrogent power that is used to undermine the morals of the masses.

But, OTOH, I’ve noticed a lot of attention given here on these forums to Homosexuality in particular. Now, I work with some Gays and notice that generally they conduct themselves with integrity in the workplace, and have valuable contributions to make. Unfortunately, they have a sexual orientation disorder that they have to deal with, and they live in a society that is giving them the green light to freely indulge. But, the ones I work with aren’t unjustly lording over their fellow human beings any more than the next guy.

But, the proud and the arrogent refered to in the Bible appears to be those with political and/or economic power over the helpless. They are those who use the weak for their own personal gain of money, influence, status etc, without concern for their human dignity.

 

[Werner]

fix:

Christ never spoke about homosexual acts? Perhaps the word homosexual was not recorded in the bible has coming directly from His lips, but that does not mean He did not speak against it. Do you accept Sola Scriptura? Do you think Christ approves of sodomy because the bible does not record Him using the exact words do not sodomize? Is that what some call the “new” morality?

Jesus never ever said something about homosexuality, so we can at least believe that it wasn’t as important for him than other things he spoke about frequently.

I don’t know if he approved on it or if he didn’t but for sure he didn’t make such an ado about it as some people today.

I’d be very careful with sola scriptura, because to read a condemnation of homosexual love in the bible you have to use sola scriptura.

As soon as you start to interpret the Word of God as the church has always done the arguments against a committed homosexual relationship in the people are getting very labile

Werner

 

[fix]

Werner:

Jesus never ever said something about homosexuality, so we can at least believe that it wasn’t as important for him than other things he spoke about frequently.

I don’t know if he approved on it or if he didn’t but for sure he didn’t make such an ado about it as some people today.

I’d be very careful with sola scriptura, because to read a condemnation of homosexual love in the bible you have to use sola scriptura.

As soon as you start to interpret the Word of God as the church has always done the arguments against a committed homosexual relationship in the people are getting very labile

Werner

I see. Christ and His Church approve of homosexual “love” and “committed” homosexual relations? Interesting. And, you have proof to back up these assertions?

 

[rlg94086]

Werner,

I think you are very confused on this issue. You argue that the only way to claim homosexuality is a sin is through Sola Scriptura, but then you also claim that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. The only accounts we have of Jesus’ words are in the Bible, so are you arguing for or against Sola Scriptura?

The truth is that everything Jesus said was not written down, so you can’t make such a claim. We have to take guidance from the Church.

Site me anything from the Church Fathers, Scripture, Encyclical, (your choice!) that says homosexual acts are completely acceptable in the eyes of the Church. Please don’t try parsing the Catechism again, as you did on the other thread. That dog won’t hunt.

God Bless,

Robert.

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

Lisa,N it’s plain this guy is using God to get ahead. Last I heard he was bribing conservative columnists. Is that Godly?

 

[Lisa_N]

Lilyofthevalley:

Lisa,N it’s plain this guy is using God to get ahead. Last I heard he was bribing conservative columnists. Is that Godly?

Oh please. I said you have NO IDEA what is in George Bush’s heart and I suspect that is a true statement. Do you presume to KNOW what is in someone else’s heart? Further I did not say that George Bush is “godly” I said that everything I have observed, read, or heard provides evidence that George Bush’s faith is sincere and not a put on for political gain. I know nothing about bribing columnists but it has nothing to do with this thread anyway.

Why are you using this thread to bash President Bush? Do you think that your claim to know what is in another’s heart is arrogant?

Lisa N

 

[Werner]

fix:

I see. Christ and His Church approve of homosexual “love” and “committed” homosexual relations? Interesting. And, you have proof to back up these assertions?

Where exactly did i say that? All i said was that Christ didn’t say anything in favor of or against homosexuality.
Do you deny that homosexuals can love each others and have committed relationships? The church doesn’t even though she doesn’t approve on them

Werner

 

[Werner]

rlg94086:

Werner,

I think you are very confused on this issue. You argue that the only way to claim homosexuality is a sin is through Sola Scriptura, but then you also claim that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. The only accounts we have of Jesus’ words are in the Bible, so are you arguing for or against Sola Scriptura?

The truth is that everything Jesus said was not written down, so you can’t make such a claim. We have to take guidance from the Church.

Site me anything from the Church Fathers, Scripture, Encyclical, (your choice!) that says homosexual acts are completely acceptable in the eyes of the Church. Please don’t try parsing the Catechism again, as you did on the other thread. That dog won’t hunt.

God Bless,

Robert.

I think you didn’t understand me, so let me make it clear.
In the scripture is nothing written about homosexual love, just about things like homosexual prostitituon and heterosexuals engaging in homosexual acts (St. Paul).

The church interprets this as all homosexual acts being sinful, and as Catholics don’t rely on sola scgriptura it is valid<Catholic teaching that all homosexual acts are sinful.

On the other side, somebody who relys on sola scriptura will find only very weak arguments against a committed, loving homosexual relationship.

Even the Catholic church relys mostly on tradition and the teachings of the church fathers regarding homosexuality rather than on the bible.

That is al i wanted to say.

Werner

 

[fix]

Werner:

Where exactly did i say that? All i said was that Christ didn’t say anything in favor of or against homosexuality.
Do you deny that homosexuals can love each others and have committed relationships? The church doesn’t even though she doesn’t approve on them

Werner

As a brother loves another brother is one thing. What does one conclude when one uses the term “committed” relationship? Nonsexual or sexual?

Christ is against homosexual acts. That is clear from the bible and Sacred Tradition. He is not against homosexual persons.

 

[WhiteDove]

My original points were:

A) The Scriptures are filled with references to the proud, the mighty, the arrogent, and the haughty. These references are highly critical of them. They are obviously those with political and/or economic power over others. I haven’t seen their sexual sins described in these references.

B) Homosexuality is not mentioned very often in the Bible.

C) Many Christians seem more worried about the sexual sins of others, particularly those of homosexuals, than they do about powerful leaders, corporations, CEOs, etc who exploit the poor and powerless.

Nowhere did I say that I think homosexual behaviour is okay. I have a big problem, in fact, with the fact that the mass media seems to be pushing the homosexual agenda. I don’t support Gay Marriage. But, I question the emphasis on condemning homosexuality, on the one hand, while remaining silent of the exploitation by those in power of the downtrodden people throughout the world. I mean, has anyone started a thread here on how we should boycott Nike???

 

[Exporter]

I remeber about 40 yearts ago that an old priest said that PRIDE is the “mother of all sins”.

What was it that caused Lucifer to sin and be driven from Heaven? It was pride.

 

[rlg94086]

WhiteDove:

My original points were:

A) The Scriptures are filled with references to the proud, the mighty, the arrogent, and the haughty. These references are highly critical of them. They are obviously those with political and/or economic power over others. I haven’t seen their sexual sins described in these references.

B) Homosexuality is not mentioned very often in the Bible.

C) Many Christians seem more worried about the sexual sins of others, particularly those of homosexuals, than they do about powerful leaders, corporations, CEOs, etc who exploit the poor and powerless.

Nowhere did I say that I think homosexual behaviour is okay. I have a big problem, in fact, with the fact that the mass media seems to be pushing the homosexual agenda. I don’t support Gay Marriage. But, I question the emphasis on condemning homosexuality, on the one hand, while remaining silent of the exploitation by those in power of the downtrodden people throughout the world. I mean, has anyone started a thread here on how we should boycott Nike???

Why don’t you start a thread on that subject, if it’s important to you. I will make comments, as will others, on your points pro/con depending on the stance. I don’t believe homosexual sin is the most important sin on the planet, but I do post my opinion when the subject comes up.

IMHO the reason homosexuality happens to be a hot topic is because there is a group of activists pushing our culture to accept sinful acts as no longer sinful. In fact, they want the government to endorse their sinful, sexual relationships as equal to a heterosexual union in marriage. When homosexual acts were more universally accepted as sin, the subject was not discussed nearly as much.

Being proud, mighty or haughty are character flaws that we all must work on, but I don’t see anyone pushing to give an active, boastfully proud lifestyle endorsement by the government.

God Bless,

Robert.

 

[fix]

WhiteDove:

My original points were:

A) The Scriptures are filled with references to the proud, the mighty, the arrogent, and the haughty. These references are highly critical of them. They are obviously those with political and/or economic power over others. I haven’t seen their sexual sins described in these references.

B) Homosexuality is not mentioned very often in the Bible.

C) Many Christians seem more worried about the sexual sins of others, particularly those of homosexuals, than they do about powerful leaders, corporations, CEOs, etc who exploit the poor and powerless.

Nowhere did I say that I think homosexual behaviour is okay. I have a big problem, in fact, with the fact that the mass media seems to be pushing the homosexual agenda. I don’t support Gay Marriage. But, I question the emphasis on condemning homosexuality, on the one hand, while remaining silent of the exploitation by those in power of the downtrodden people throughout the world. I mean, has anyone started a thread here on how we should boycott Nike???

Well, I think most are aware that abuse of power and greed are sinful. That message has been played over and over again in recent decades. That does not mean more should not be done, but it gets plenty of air time both in Church homilies and pop culture. What does not get much air time are the consequences of impure sexual conduct. Our culture has decided pan sexuality is the norm and to reject that is to be intolerant.