Prove it!

[Filioque]

Jesus was not an academic either, yet look what He did in only 3 years…Paul was an academic, but never through it in anyones face…he spoke so he could be understood. I would be very proud of my father if I were you. He sounds like a really good man. Jesus looks at the heart and could care less at our pedigree.

Your answer is only half correct. In order to be addressed as Rabbinoi, or Rabbi, and to instruct in the Temple, and amaze the Learned, Jesus had to be educated in not just the letter of the Law, but the Spirit. It would seem from the Scriptures that He also was learned in languages, as when the Centurian approached Him about his daughter, it is unlikely that he spoke to Jesus in Aramaic or Hebrew. When Jesus was before Pilate, it would be demeaning for the Procurator to speak to Jesus in the local language, so he must have addressed Jesus in Greek or Latin. While we are not given in the Scriptures His academic history, we are told that He was subject to Mary and Joseph, and under them He grew in Wisdom and Grace. He does not balk when called Lord by Peter. A position of authority, and superior learning or intellect does not have to make one arrogant, as both Jesus and Paul’s lives show us. Neither should a good education (in academia, or self study) be discounted.

Many see Jesus as they would like Him to be, a meek, simple man. I don’t see that when I read the Scriptures. (In His humanity) I see a well rounded and well educated man, who is comfortable with the poor and those rejected and marginalized by society, lepers and public sinners, able to speak to them as a soul in need of redemption, and to the well healed and articulate, He also can hold His own. In the Sacred Texts we see that He is questioned about His interactions and comfort with visiting both the Rich and the Poor. He never tells us that one is any less in need of salvation, but goes to everyone with His message. What is amazing is not that He goes to one class or another, but that there are those in each class who ignore His message and those in each that accept it.
It does not stop Him from announcing the Good News to everyone, Jew or Gentile, even before “His Time”

 

[Jars_of_Clay_1]

You were not getting into my conversation. I was getting involved in yours. If I owe you an apology, then I’m sorry.

Oh no - no apology necessary! I didn’t mean it that way. I just found your reference interesting and I was taking your comment in a direction I don’t think you intended. I’ve seen Jesus referred to as “first born” and just want to comment on that since you were the last person to use that term.

Thanks for your courtesy.

 

[fbl9]

I see no evidence that it’s a teaching from the Holy Spirit. I hope to be open to the Holy Spirit if He wants me to believe a teaching not obvious in the Word of God. So what I refuse is your understanding.

an understanding is not a truth but an understanding of something… because of your flawed understanding of who the Church is you will never accept the truth as coming from the Holy Spirit in this regard.

 

[Dokimas]

so you think,however you are the one saying Christ was to be “educated” in responsiblity by having siblings then He should have been with His parents doing the work of an older sibling which namely is taking care of them while His parents attended to the business at hand.

I was responding to something Guanophore said. (I think it was Guanophore.). I was question why Mary and Joseph would want another child if they had the Messiah.​

BTW, the attitude that seems to come along with your comments are the kinds of attitudes that would repell another from your way of thinking. Just thought you should know.

 

[Dokimas]

yep the invisible body with NO authority, the one that nobody can find to settle disputes.

I hate to bring it up but how did the church do for decades with the pediphile problem?

 

[Dokimas]

Oh no - no apology necessary! I didn’t mean it that way. I just found your reference interesting and I was taking your comment in a direction I don’t think you intended. I’ve seen Jesus referred to as “first born” and just want to comment on that since you were the last person to use that term.

Thanks for your courtesy.

I believe you stated my point better than I was able to do. Thank you.

 

[Dokimas]

an understanding is not a truth but an understanding of something… because of your flawed understanding of who the Church is you will never accept the truth as coming from the Holy Spirit in this regard.

Thank you for your opinion. I’m not sure it’s accurate with the Bible, but thank you anyway.

 

[Filioque]

Jesus will protect His church; that doesn’t necessarily mean the CC. It is His Body, the group of all true believers.

Does True beleiver mean that they submit to the same truths taught by Jesus, and the Apostles, or that they believe divergent teachings, but because they call Him Lord, they are the Church?

Rather than just tell us there is an invisible body of all “true” believers, could you tell us what makes one a “true” believer, and what excludes one from being a “true” believer.

I’ve heard many who accepted Jesus as Lord and Personal Savior excluded by others who “accepted” Jesus, as never having been a Christian in the first place, but nobody in the Protestant saved camp can tell my what constitutes being saved. For everything I’m told saves someone, they found a reason to exclude one or another person who qualifies. The Invisible Church, seems to have Invisible rules.

 

[fbl9]

I hate to bring it up but how did the church do for decades with the pediphile problem?

then don’t…what does this prove anyhow? that your group is better?so forgivng of yourself,your kind tend to held themselves up yet when one of your kind fall they are forgotten, why are they forgotten? because they are nothing to the world,in terms of a threat to it’s ways.

 

[Jars_of_Clay_1]

Matthew 1:

24 Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife,
25 and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name JESUS.​

Please notice two things: first, the word ‘til’ and second, the word firstborn.

Yes, I think your point is to say they (Joseph & Mary) had sex (know her) after Jesus was born, correct? With the possibility of other children, correct? It says “first born Son,” meaning first of other children and not “only Son,” or “only child” or simply “son.”

I don’t want to put words into your mouth, but I think that’s what your saying to me. If so, I certainly agree with that. Thanks.

 

[Dokimas]

Yes, I think your point is to say they (Joseph & Mary) had sex (know her) after Jesus was born, correct? With the possibility of other children, correct? It says “first born Son,” meaning first of other children and not “only Son,” or “only child” or simply “son.”

I don’t want to put words into your mouth, but I think that’s what your saying to me. If so, I certainly agree with that. Thanks.

You are correct. That’s what I was meaning.

 

[fbl9]

Yes, I think your point is to say they (Joseph & Mary) had sex (know her) after Jesus was born, correct? With the possibility of other children, correct? It says “first born Son,” meaning first of other children and not “only Son,” or “only child” or simply “son.”

I don’t want to put words into your mouth, but I think that’s what your saying to me. If so, I certainly agree with that. Thanks.

My son is my first born,how many children do i have?

 

[Dokimas]

then don’t…what does this prove anyhow? that your group is better?so forgivng of yourself,your kind tend to held themselves up yet when one of your kind fall they are forgotten, why are they forgotten? because they are nothing to the world,in terms of a threat to it’s ways.

It shows that maybe your church isn’t any better at solving disputes than any other church. NO my church isn’t superior. If my church thought it was, I’d leave.

 

[Filioque]

I hate to bring it up but how did the church do for decades with the pediphile problem?

The same way that Protestantism and Judaism, Mormonism and Jehovahs Witnesses did, they were ashsamed, and tried to hide it. Our Lord told us there would be tares among the wheat.

There was an article a few years back that exposed the fact that there was a higher percentage of pedophilia in Protestant Churches than among the Catholic Clergy. The difference is without a centralized government, and with in most cases the individual congregation hiring the ministers, these (mostly married) men were passed on from one congregation to another, without any warning, because the old Protestant congregation was ashamed that they had been hoodwinked by the ministers. Please feel free to note that it is not a Catholic Newspaper that published this little reported truth.

csmonitor.com/2002/0405/p01s01-ussc.html

 

[Dokimas]

My son is my first born,how many children do i have?

How many sons are begotten of God the Father? What term did the Holy Spirit use to tell us?

 

[Dokimas]

The same way that Protestantism and Judaism, Mormonism and Jehovahs Witnesses did, they were ashsamed, and tried to hide it. Our Lord told us there would be tares among the wheat.

There was an article a few years back that exposed the fact that there was a higher percentage of pedophilia in Protestant Churches than among the Catholic Clergy. The difference is without a centralized government, and with in most cases the individual congregation hiring the ministers, these (mostly married) men were passed on from one congregation to another, without any warning, because the old Protestant congregation was ashamed that they had been hoodwinked by the ministers. Please feel free to note that it is not a Catholic Newspaper that published this little reported truth.

csmonitor.com/2002/0405/p01s01-ussc.html

You may have missed my point. There’s plenty of sin to go around in all denominations and religions including yours.​

BTW, in the USof A, priest pediphiles were knowing moved to other churches. Not only that but there was years of denial. So much for centralized churhc government.

 

[Jars_of_Clay_1]

My son is my first born,how many children do i have?

Let’s see, if he’s your first born, I’d say wonderful - how many children do you have? If you responded I have one, I’d think to myself, why did he or she refer to their only child as “first born?” I wouldn’t ask it out loud because if I knew you only had one child and did not see other references in your family to other children, I’d assume perhaps one child may have died or that you were planning to have more. Not necessarily that you had more, but were planning to have more. With that comes sex within the marriage.

Like I said - to me it would be strange to see a reference to an only child referred to as “first born” if other children weren’t involved or planned for the future.

 

[fbl9]

It shows that maybe your church isn’t any better at solving disputes than any other church. NO my church isn’t superior. If my church thought it was, I’d leave.

i don’t understand your line of thinking; this was a dispute,makes no sense to me. Your Church is equal to the Church?

 

[Dokimas]

i don’t understand your line of thinking; this was a dispute,makes no sense to me. Your Church is equal to the Church?

This response was to the person that said that their church was the only church set up to deal with disputes. I tried to respond that if that person looked carefully withing her/his church the ability of that church to deal with disputes have been greatly compromised.​

BTW, maybe it was you whom I was trying to respond to.

 

[Dokimas]

Let’s see, if he’s your first born, I’d say wonderful - how many children do you have? If you responded I have one, I’d think to myself, why did he or she refer to their only child as “first born?” I wouldn’t ask it out loud because if I knew you only had one child and did not see other references in your family to other children, I’d assume perhaps one child may have died or that you were planning to have more. Not necessarily that you had more, but were planning to have more. With that comes sex within the marriage.

Like I said - to me it would be strange to see a reference to an only child referred to as “first born” if other children weren’t involved or planned for the future.

I agree. That’s why I asked how many begotten sons does God the Father have and how do we know.