Proverbs 8:22, Sirach 24:9 wisdom attribute of God

[Daniel_Marsh]

Proverbs 8:22

JPS: The LORD **made me **as the beginning of His way, the first of His works of old.

YLT: Jehovah possessed me – the beginning of His way, Before His works since then.

Sirach 24:9 He created me from the beginning before the world, and I shall never fail.

More recently I have been referred to a site by a JW named “Heinz” who is conversant in the Wisdom literature – but regards it as “damaging to Trinitarians” because it shows that **“Wisdom was created!” Sirach 24:9 **…

The most space, however, is devoted to Prov. 8:22 and the verb qanah. In early editions of this essay we offered an extensive analysis of qanah showing that the translation “created” is unlikely – so much so that Vawter declared that Wisdom was a separate being that God “acquired”! “Heinz” often takes the tack of “quote the versions to prove your point” and compiles around 30 translation cites that render qanah as “created” in Prov. 8:22. None of this is of any effect,** for a “created” interpretation of qanah is based on false suppositions**. Note how qanah is used in other passages where the context admits no such meaning:

Gen. 4:1 have gotten
Gen. 25:10 ** purchased **
Lev. 25:15 ** buy **
1 Kings 16:24 **he bought **

All of these should provide substantial object lessons that merely quoting English versions is a hazardous exercise! Now that said, what of qanah? It is not “created”; the word for that is bara in the creation account. As noted, Vawter sees Wisdom as an “outside acquisition” of an independent being, a view neither Trinitarians nor JWs can accept. No one sees God getting Wisdom or Jesus on cash or credit! …

Gen. 14:19 possessor
Prov. 1:5 attain
Prov. 4:5 **get **

**Clearly “wisdom” is not something we create or acquire from outside; we cultivate our own attributes from within. **Yet we also see it, as in Gen. 4:1 and Prov. 8, used of the imagery of giving birth. The nature of Wisdom to God is of an attribute that is possessed, used, and cultivated (in line with God using Wisdom as a tool to create, in Proverbs 8). …

In this light Prov. 8 says nothing in terms of the means and method where Wisdom was qanahed and cannot be used by JWs to argue that Christ is a being created as humans were rather than eternal.

tektonics.org/gk/jwsandjesus.html

Does anyone know what word is used in Sirach 24:9? was it “qananiy”? — which is basically “qanah” with the “-y, -niy” pronomial (masculine first person singular) ending. It is a Qal qatal (active perfect) verb and is not related to “bara” at all.

 

[Todd_Easton]

Although I cannot address your question directly, does your friend really think that God was ever without wisdom?

 

[Mystophilus]

Does anyone know what word is used in Sirach 24:9? was it “qananiy”? — which is basically “qanah” with the “-y, -niy” pronomial (masculine first person singular) ending. It is a Qal qatal (active perfect) verb and is not related to “bara” at all.

Sirach came down to us in Greek, and only some of it has been found in Hebrew:

(a) in one manuscript: iii. 6-16, 26; xviii. 30-31; xix. 1-2; xx. 4-6, 12 (?); xxv. 7c, 8c, 8a, 12, 16-23; xxvi. 1-2; xxvii. 5-6, 16; xxx. 11-xxxiii. 3; xxxv. 9-xxxviii. 27; xxxix. 15-li. 30; (b) in two manuscripts: iv. 23b, 30-31; v. 4-8, 9-13; vi. 18-19, 28, 35; vii. 1, 4, 6, 17, 20-21, 23-25; xxxvi. 16, 29-31; xxxvii. complete; xxxviii. 1; (c) in three manuscripts: xxxvii. 19, 22, 24, 26.

Note also that one of those manuscripts might be an autograph copy (i.e., original), but that the other two are most likely back-translations from the Syriac and the Greek.

As such, you had perhaps just as well look at the Greek of 24:9, that beign the earliest version extant. It uses εκτισεν, from κτιζω.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Hi Todd, most arian cults like Jehovah’s Witnesses will quote Proverbs 8:22 “create” version as a proof text to prove that the Son of God is a created being. Yes, Our best answer is simply to point out that wisdom is an attribute of God and thus there was never a time God lacked wisdom, thus proverbs 8 makes more sense that God possessed wisdom.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Memra
bibleword.org/memra.htm