Providing mothers taxpayer-funded financial incentives to refrain from abortion

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SimmieKay

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I was thinking about how can we reduce the incidence of abortion. Obviously one way is to change the law to make abortion illegal, or reduce the number of circumstances in which it is illegal. However, in my own country (Australia) at least, the campaign to change the law has been active for many years (even a few decades) now, and has had little or no success in that time, and I honestly don’t think that is going to change any time soon. So I was thinking, is there an alternative approach? I say “alternative”, not in the sense that people should stop campaigning for legal change, but in the sense that this is something additional people could try, which might even bear more fruit (“fruit” here being a reduction in the number of abortions occurring.)

So my proposal is a government agency is established to provide mothers seeking abortion with financial incentives to refrain from abortion. Every mother seeking an abortion would be referred to this agency. The agency discusses her financial and other needs, and proposes a set of financial inducements she could choose to accept. The financial inducements would be paid starting at the birth of the child. One form of inducement could be a regular payment (weekly/fortnightly/monthly) to cover the cost of the upbringing of the child. Other possible incentives could include - repayment of the mother’s debts by the government, free university education, subsidised employment (i.e. the government pays part of the mother’s salary/wages on behalf of the employer, thus making the mother more attractive to prospective employers), income tax exemptions (e.g. the government exempts the mother from payment of income tax until the child turns 18), interest free loans, etc. These incentives would be part of a legally binding contract between the mother and the government, so the government would not be able to alter or reduce them later. The incentives should be available both to mothers who choose to adopt and those who want to raise the child (although, in the case of adoption, they’d have to be carefully designed to avoid the appearance of selling babies.)

I would propose initially the agency would be established with a fixed budget (say 1 billion dollars.) In making a contract with a mother, the agency would be required to deduct the lifetime cost of that contract from its 1 billion dollar budget, plus administrative costs. Once the 1 billion is spent, we can look at how many abortions were prevented, the cost per an abortion prevented, and decide whether it is worth continuing the agency with the same budget (another billion dollars) or even an increased budget. The agency would decide what financial incentives to offer to which women within their budget - the agency’s objectives would be to maximise the number of abortions prevented, and its management would decide the best way to spend this 1 billion dollars to achieve this. The agency’s management would be paid financial incentives per an abortion prevented.

So what do people think of my proposal? Suppose it takes a $50,000 payment on average to convince a mother to refrain from abortion. So $1 billion can then save 20,000 lives. Is a billion dollars too much to pay to save 20,000 lives? I think in Australia, an extra billion would require an income tax rise of less than 0.5%. Should people be willing to pay an extra 0.5% of tax to save tens of thousands of innocent lives?

Of all possible proposals to reduce abortion, I see this as one that both sides of the debate should be able to accept. As such, if seriously pursued in the political arena, I think it has a greater likelihood of being enacted in the political process.

Simon
 
That is welfare and no way will conservatives support that.
It isn’t even welfare; it is an ill-conceived idea based on emotion rather than common sense and feasibility.

So why stop at abortion? Let’s just bribe drug addicts to stop using, prostitutes to stop hooking, philanderers to stop philandering…everyone gets free money except for the people who have to pay it.

What is it going to take for people to realize that you can’t spend your way out of problems? And why do some presume that because working-class people who work hard for home and family and already pay their fair share are somehow being selfish and uncharitable when the idea is floated for them to pony up for another free-money giveaway?

If those of you who spend the day dreaming up ideas of how to end abortion are serious, then you need to go into the inner cities, the schools and the streets and try to start converting the hearts and minds of those who choose abortion because they think that they don’t have any other alternative. Why don’t you put YOUR money where YOUR mouth is???
 
It shouldn’t be made available as a reward of wanting to abort pregnancy.

It should be made available for all mothers who are pregnant with certain condition, example: under-age pregnancy and/ or unable to support herself and the coming baby.

For changing mothers mind from abortion, financial is one reason, but there are other factors too. These factors include giving them correct information about their own health and the fetus being “alive”, and consultation, and adoption alternative, and other means such as a place to give birth in secret because most abortions are by unmarried women.
 
My local right to life has a “mother’s help fund” for women who choose life to get help with rent, groceries, car repairs, etc. CPCs provide free baby clothes, parenting classes, etc.

However, this won’t apply to those who use abortion as birth control.

Why do they need tax incentives?
 
It isn’t even welfare; it is an ill-conceived idea based on emotion rather than common sense and feasibility.

So why stop at abortion? Let’s just bribe drug addicts to stop using, prostitutes to stop hooking, philanderers to stop philandering…everyone gets free money except for the people who have to pay it.

What is it going to take for people to realize that you can’t spend your way out of problems? And why do some presume that because working-class people who work hard for home and family and already pay their fair share are somehow being selfish and uncharitable when the idea is floated for them to pony up for another free-money giveaway?

If those of you who spend the day dreaming up ideas of how to end abortion are serious, then you need to go into the inner cities, the schools and the streets and try to start converting the hearts and minds of those who choose abortion because they think that they don’t have any other alternative. Why don’t you put YOUR money where YOUR mouth is???
I rest my case.
 
I rest my case.
Yes, conservatives are so vile because they buck at having to pay for the bad choices of others. :rolleyes:

Do you honestly think that bribing someone to avoid abortion is the answer? How would you, in all of your wisdom, solve the issue of abortion in the inner cities among the young, single and sexually active who use abortion because contraception either failed or couldn’t be bothered with?
 
This pretty much already happens. I run a crisis pregnancy center. So a woman comes in, and we convince her not to have an abortion. Let’s say she decides to keep the baby and not adopt. Here is what we offer: free healthcare (either through doctors working for free or we help them get free government healthcare); free maternity clothes; free parenting classes; free baby stuff, including diapers, clothes, car seats, beds); free daycare. We also hook mom up to receive food stamps, subsidized housing, jobs, free food at food pantry. And this doesn’t end when baby is born either.

So, I’d say mom already has NO financial reason to abort.

I suppose your question though is do we give her more? To be honest, what else does she need? I’m mean, seriously. We even helped one mom but a battery for her car.

I get pretty ticked off when I’m called a greedy conservative. Do I get free healthcare? No. Free food? No. Free anything? No.

I volunteer a great deal of time to help support pregnant women, to show them that there is no logical reason to get an abortion. I also put in my own money to help support these women.
 
I get pretty ticked off when I’m called a greedy conservative. Do I get free healthcare? No. Free food? No. Free anything? No.
And yet, I’m sure that you do far more than a certain critic in this thread who thinks that simply throwing money at problems solves everything.

There comes a point when people need to take responsibility for their own actions.
 
It is pretty clear that the proposal, as stated, is impractical, and that a lot of help is already being offered to women to discourage abortion. However the ensuing discussion does highlight some interesting facts about people’s view of abortion.

In particular, it weakens the argument we often hear around election time that “no issue can ever be as important as abortion”. Here we have people opposed to the OP’s proposal objecting on grounds of practicality and fairness in taxes and throwing money at problems. They are clearly weighing other values against the value of discouraging abortions, thus making abortion one of many issues that may be considered when making such decisions.
 
And yet, I’m sure that you do far more than a certain critic in this thread who thinks that simply throwing money at problems solves everything.

There comes a point when people need to take responsibility for their own actions.
Matthew 25
34Then the King will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’
37 Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink?
38 And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee?
39 And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?’
40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.’
41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;
42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’
 
It is pretty clear that the proposal, as stated, is impractical, and that a lot of help is already being offered to women to discourage abortion. However the ensuing discussion does highlight some interesting facts about people’s view of abortion.

In particular, it weakens the argument we often hear around election time that “no issue can ever be as important as abortion”. Here we have people opposed to the OP’s proposal objecting on grounds of practicality and fairness in taxes. They are clearly weighing other values against the value of discouraging abortions, thus making abortion one of many issues that may be considered when making such decisions.
I don’t think it’s a bad idea because of practicality and fairness. It’s a bad idea because it won’t work. These women are already getting a great deal of financial support…and there are still abortions- a lot of abortions.
 
We already give financial incentives, but we need to care for the poor better. More money, in a society that is morally bankrupt, will solve nothing. We also need to address the causes of abortion as Tim D pointed out. That includes a welfare
system which helps the poor and doesn’t simply indulge immoral behavior.
 
I don’t think it’s a bad idea because of practicality and fairness. It’s a bad idea because it won’t work. These women are already getting a great deal of financial support…and there are still abortions- a lot of abortions.
That is an argument based on practicality. It is analogous to saying “I don’t want to vote for candidate X who is pro-life because his proposals won’t work”.
 
It’s a mistake to view this sort of thing proposed by the OP as a bribe. Raising a child is difficult and scary. And if one is poor or are in an insecure state, they might consider an abortion because to them that’s the only viable option. Sure, go ahead, condemn them. Label them a murderer. But that’s not going to save the infant.

Regina, your work is valuable and is very constructive to the cause, but I must ask, how widespread is such healthcare provided at low cost to the poor? How common is such charity in the USA? I know we’re a charitable nation, but I don’t see such extensive programs run very often.
It isn’t even welfare; it is an ill-conceived idea based on emotion rather than common sense and feasibility.

So why stop at abortion? Let’s just bribe drug addicts to stop using, prostitutes to stop hooking, philanderers to stop philandering…everyone gets free money except for the people who have to pay it.

What is it going to take for people to realize that you can’t spend your way out of problems? And why do some presume that because working-class people who work hard for home and family and already pay their fair share are somehow being selfish and uncharitable when the idea is floated for them to pony up for another free-money giveaway?

If those of you who spend the day dreaming up ideas of how to end abortion are serious, then you need to go into the inner cities, the schools and the streets and try to start converting the hearts and minds of those who choose abortion because they think that they don’t have any other alternative. Why don’t you put YOUR money where YOUR mouth is???
Typical class warfare drivel.

It is rare in this relatively puritanical American society that anyone enters prostitution because that’s their life dream. They do it to alleviate their financial situation, and it’s been that way for thousands of years.

Comparing philanderers to prostitutes just goes to show how little you understand the problem. Philanderers have beaucoup sex with many women because they want to for pleasure. People don’t get abortions or enter prostitution because they find it pleasurable. They do it because they feel that they don’t have any other options because they are financially insecure.

If we’re going to talk about putting our money where our mouth is, then may I suggest you go out and preach to those people and see how well that works out for you. Those who do want to end abortion have already tried what you said. And guess what, it hasn’t stopped or significantly slowed. To stop abortion, you have to understand why people get them. Ideals are valuable, but people cannot live on them alone. If you’re not willing to help people in any way keep their child instead of aborting it, then stop pretending that you even care. You’re just wasting everyone’s time.
 
It is rare in this relatively puritanical American society that anyone enters prostitution because that’s their life dream. They do it to alleviate their financial situation, and it’s been that way for thousands of years.
You lost me. How is our society “relatively puritanical?” Relative to what? Isn’t there is far less prostitution and abortion in societies that are more puritanical.
 
You lost me. How is our society “relatively puritanical?” Relative to what? Isn’t there is far less prostitution and abortion in societies that are more puritanical.
I’ll give one example. It’s relatively puritanical because while parents in Europe and elsewhere are quite comfortable to give their children the sex-talk at a young age or are willing to let the schools educate them on such matters, in the USA parents get upset if any school official talks about sex, especially if a condom is involved. They usually shout that their parental duties are being violated. So the school backs down or lets them opt out. And then the parents usually never give their children the sex talk. Why? Because it makes them queezy. In short, Americans don’t like to talk about sex, unlike a lot of other cultures.

As for the latter part, I wouldn’t know the answer to because it varies. Such as in the Islamic State it’s difficult to answer because people are usually coerced by law/gun-point to keep the child of the man who forced himself on the woman. Such societies tend to be extremely patriarchal, and sex tends to be treated as a right for men to ask of women. Prostitution cannot be said to exist because something far worse has replaced it: sex slavery.

Then we have medieval Europe. Prostitution was widely practiced back then. We have plenty of records of it. And this occurred in a relatively loyal religious populace, who refrained from sex on feast days, etc. In short, if you do the math, most people were born during specific periods of the year because most people listened to the Church’s teachings on when they can have sex and birth control. Yet, in this Age of Faith, you also find tons of documentary evidence of prostitution. There are even accounts of monks urging people to have sex with prostitutes than to masturbate! (because they felt the former was the lesser sin).
 
If we’re going to talk about putting our money where our mouth is, then may I suggest you go out and preach to those people and see how well that works out for you. Those who do want to end abortion have already tried what you said. And guess what, it hasn’t stopped or significantly slowed. To stop abortion, you have to understand why people get them. Ideals are valuable, but people cannot live on them alone. If you’re not willing to help people in any way keep their child instead of aborting it, then stop pretending that you even care. You’re just wasting everyone’s time.
I agree that the ideas in the OP are “ill-conceived.” Based on emotion rather than common sense and feasibility.

My family has opened our home to a young (18) unwed mother and her baby(4 months.) Yep, she is living with us and we are helping her as much as we can. No, she is not related to us. Nor is the baby.

Am I wasting everyone’s time?
 
No, because you’re actually doing something rather than simply proposing a failed or half-baked policy (ie just preaching to the crowd).
 
Am I wasting everyone’s time?
Absolutely not. Your family is doing a great and wonderful thing,if only more of us (myself included) could do something such as that. Tell them to keep up the good work. 👍 You too, Ms.Regina :).

Personally, my concern with the Welfare State is the fact that it may end up displacing and replacing private charity and community. With that said, man is fallen and often giving isn’t enough especially in isolated places such as the inner cities. Tim, you make a strong point there, people do need to reach out get their hands “dirty.” Throwing money at problems isn’t a panacea or cure-all (though it may do a lot of good for things like the Foster Care system).

Perhaps we could work towards solutions that compliment both charity and justice, both subsidiarity and solidarity such as public grants to competent local human service agencies that simultaneously attain massive substantial support from private funding and volunteers. Maybe a lot of it has to do with balance.

Related to the OP’s point, Israel seems to do something kinda similar by referring women to a pro-life organization.
EFRAT’s approach is simple: When women in Israel register for abortions, they’re asked why they want to end the life of the child. If they say financial reasons, they are given EFRAT’s number. After a volunteer talks with them and assesses their needs, they may receive services from the organization.
Also, one should not forget the fact that abortions may be due to coercion (it’s not always a “choice”), some may be due to domestic violence and relationship abuse others may be due to parents threatening to cut off their children. So maybe there’s a rationale to support initiatives such as these.
With PAF funds, grantees conduct the following types of activities:
Support expectant and parenting student services at institutions of higher education;
Support expectant and parenting teens, women, fathers, and their families at high schools and community service centers;
Improve services for pregnant women who are victims of domestic violence, sexual violence, sexual assault, and stalking; and
Increase public awareness and education services for expectant and parenting teens, women, fathers, and their families.
 
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