J
japhy
Guest
I’ve looked at Ps 16:3 in several different Bible translations. The NAB’s translation is not even remotely similar to any other translation I’ve seen. What’s the story behind this one?
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V
Verbum
Guest
Hi Japhy,
It would be nice (and this goes for a lot of posters here) if you would save us the trouble of looking for the scripture text ourselves. You do not even tell us what numeration system you’re using.
For what it may be worth, here is what the French Bible de Jérusalem has for Psalm 16 Vulgate
The footnotes show that this verse is very unclear, and possibly corrupted. They have used all the consonnants of the Hebrew and replaced two vowels with the help of other ancient translations.
Verbum
It would be nice (and this goes for a lot of posters here) if you would save us the trouble of looking for the scripture text ourselves. You do not even tell us what numeration system you’re using.
For what it may be worth, here is what the French Bible de Jérusalem has for Psalm 16 Vulgate
- You probe my heart, you visit me at night,
you test me without finding anything, no murmur from me:
my mouth has not sinned, 4. as is the way of men.
- You say to Yahweh: “My Lord
you are my good, nothing is above you”;
[you say] to the saints, those who are on earth:
My princes, I take all my pleasure in it."
The footnotes show that this verse is very unclear, and possibly corrupted. They have used all the consonnants of the Hebrew and replaced two vowels with the help of other ancient translations.
Verbum
J
japhy
Guest
I wasn’t trying to be difficult; I considered putting a link to BibleGateway or Bible.CC or some other portal, but I decided against it.
As for as the numeration system, when I say Ps 16:3 in the NAB, I mean precisely that: the verse the NAB calls Psalm 16:3. I know the Vulgate and LXX would call that Psalm 15. And I know there are discrepancies in the numbering of the verses of the psalms between translations, because some start counting with the title and instruction, whereas some start counting with the first words of the psalm.
NAB: Worthless are all the false gods of the land. Accursed are all who delight in them.
RSV: As for the saints in the land, they are the noble, in whom is all my delight.
KJV: But to the saints that are in the earth, and to the excellent, in whom is all my delight.
DR: To the saints, who are in his land, he hath made wonderful all my desires in them.
LV: sanctis qui sunt in terra eius mirificavit mihi; omnes voluntates meas in eis
BNV: In sanctos, qui sunt in terra, inclitos viros, omnis voluntas mea in eos.
For more, see Bible.CC.
C
COPLAND_3
Guest
I was thinking that since the NAB goes by a different chapter order than some of the others then that would be the problem, but I have looked, and I see what you are talking about. Either that is a terrible translation or they have used a different ancient version that I have not found. I checked the Dead Sea Scrolls and that portion is not in them, so that eliminates that possiblity, and I checked the Aramaic Peshitta and it goes along with the Septuagint and the Hebrew and Latin, so I have no idea! They did not even put a footnote to indicate.
Notice that the NAB is similar in some ways, but notice that they have taken the opposite meaning, which I have underlined below.
**NAB **Worthless are all the false gods of the land. Accursed are all who delight in them.
**LXX **On behalf of the saints that are in his land, he has magnified all his pleasure in them.
Vulgate DR To the saints, who are in his land, he hath made wonderful all my desires in them.
Masoretic Text As for the saints who are in the earth, they are the excellent ones, in whom is all my delight.
**Aramaic Peshitta **I said it also to the saints that are on the earth, and to the excellent, in whom is all my delight.
Notice that the NAB is similar in some ways, but notice that they have taken the opposite meaning, which I have underlined below.
**NAB **Worthless are all the false gods of the land. Accursed are all who delight in them.
**LXX **On behalf of the saints that are in his land, he has magnified all his pleasure in them.
Vulgate DR To the saints, who are in his land, he hath made wonderful all my desires in them.
Masoretic Text As for the saints who are in the earth, they are the excellent ones, in whom is all my delight.
**Aramaic Peshitta **I said it also to the saints that are on the earth, and to the excellent, in whom is all my delight.
J
japhy
Guest
Seriously. At least the RSV-2CE says “The meaning of the Hebrew is uncertain”!
C
COPLAND_3
Guest
That may explain it, not that the NAB is correct, because I don’t usually give them the benefit of the doubt. But I am lookong at the Hebrew and it starts out with L QDUSHIM which in Hebrew it can only mean “to the saints/holy ones”. To take it one step further just look at some highly reliable experts in Hebrew, the LXX translators used “tois Hagios” which means “the saints” and St. Jerome in both his translations, of the Hebrew and Greek he used "“sanctis.” How the NAB got “Worthless are all the false gods” is beyond me. Another reason for my disappointment in the NAB’s translation of the OT.
According to the NAB introduction, they did not use the MT for the Psalms but “the Hebrew text underlying the new Latin Psalter of the Church, the Liber Psalmorum (1944, 1 19452).”
It could be merely a difference from the MT and an alternative Hebrew reading.
J
japhy
Guest
But the Biblia Nova Vulgata (which uses the Liber Psalmorum) renders the verse as In sanctos, qui sunt in terra, inclitos viros,
omnis voluntas mea in eos. Nothing about false gods there! So is the BNV a poor Latin translation of the Hebrew (although its translation is in sync with the other translations), or is the NAB just a poor rendering of the Hebrew (in this case)?
C
COPLAND_3
Guest
Just out of curiosity I checked Origen’s Hexapla and Symmachus starts off with “eis tous Hagious” which eliminates that possiblity. If there is a text that supports it then I sure would like to know what the mystery text is!
J
japhy
Guest
The the Liturgy of the Hours has a better translation of this verse, from The Psalms: A New Translation (Grail): He has put into my heart a marvellous love for the faithful ones who dwell in his land.
Anyone have the earlier NAB, the first edition?
Anyone have the earlier NAB, the first edition?
Come to think of it this reminds me that the preface I mentioned refers to the 1970 Psalms. I don’t now now whether it still applies to the 1991.
Then again, I hate the 1991 NAB psalms anyway. So I’m not too sure anymore.
J
jpy15026
Guest
1970 NAB Before the Revision:
“How wonderfully has he made me cherish the holy ones who are in this land!”
NAB: Worthless are all the false gods of the land. Accursed are all who delight in them.
RSV: As for the saints in the land, they are the noble, in whom is all my delight.
KJV: But to the saints that are in the earth, and to the excellent, in whom is all my delight.
DR: To the saints, who are in his land, he hath made wonderful all my desires in them.
LV: sanctis qui sunt in terra eius mirificavit mihi; omnes voluntates meas in eis
BNV: In sanctos, qui sunt in terra, inclitos viros, omnis voluntas mea in eos.
“How wonderfully has he made me cherish the holy ones who are in this land!”
NAB: Worthless are all the false gods of the land. Accursed are all who delight in them.
RSV: As for the saints in the land, they are the noble, in whom is all my delight.
KJV: But to the saints that are in the earth, and to the excellent, in whom is all my delight.
DR: To the saints, who are in his land, he hath made wonderful all my desires in them.
LV: sanctis qui sunt in terra eius mirificavit mihi; omnes voluntates meas in eis
BNV: In sanctos, qui sunt in terra, inclitos viros, omnis voluntas mea in eos.
J
japhy
Guest
Ok, that settles it. I’ve already emailed NABquestion@usccb.org, but I’m not expecting much of a reply. I can’t believe they wouldn’t even put a footnote on that verse! Then again, the didn’t put a footnote on Luke 1:28 (“Hail, favored one!”).
C
COPLAND_3
Guest
What do you expect, they put footnotes that make an orthodox minded Catholic want to vomit, while they do not put footnotes when it would be helpful to verify their translation!
J
japhy
Guest
Here’s the response I got back:
The translation of Ps 16:3 is based on a critical emendation of vv. 2 and 3. You can check the Critical Notes in the one-volume edition of The Psalms, rev. ed., New York: Catholic Book Publishing Co, 1991, page 267, where the Hebrew emendations of the Masoretic text are given. The New Jewish Publication Society, NJPS, translation has this note on 16:3, “Meaning of Heb. uncertain.”
A
AmbroseSJ
Guest
Wow a reply that wiley scribe would be proud of!
So apparently when the NJPS has a comment that the meaning of the Hebrew is uncertain, the Catholic USCCB interprets this to mean ANYTHING (but the traditional translation) GOES!!- Status