Psalm 110:1 please help

[otjm]

Yahweh declared

Another simple way of translating that is “God declared”.

1. it (your reference) is in the Old Testament and the Trinity had not yet been revealed clearly.
2. There are a number of passages which “hint” at the Trinity in the Old Testament; but the Jews had not yet understood what was hidden, to be revealed when Christ came.
3. The Jews in the OT may have referred to God as Father, but that neither proves nor disproves the Trinity. Keep in mind that the Jews would not even utter the name of God, nor write it. The god of the Israelites, whose name was revealed to Moses as four Hebrew consonants (YHWH) called the tetragrammaton, was initially used, but later in the OT not even that was used.

Not sure who your speculators are ( would guess possibly JW’s) but you may not want to spend an inordinate amount of time with them if for no other reason than the frustration factor.

 

[HarryStotle]

Yes,

But other people believe the Messiah is the Son of God, who is separate from Yahweh. Therefore this doesn’t work. I want to find a way to explain this to them. I tried explaining to them with example in the Bible, but the question that I could not answer is.

If the Father and Jesus in heaven make up one Yahweh, than why when they’re both in Heaven is Yahweh speaking to Jesus?

Jesus used this Psalm to refute the Pharisees who insisted that the son of David, the Messiah (the anointed one) would be merely a human messiah.

The passage is in Matt 22:40-5 …

Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them this question: “What do you think of the Messiah? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “The son of David.” He said to them, “How is it then that David by the Spirit calls him Lord, saying,
‘The LORD said to my Lord,
“Sit at my right hand,
until I put your enemies under your feet”’?
If David thus calls him Lord, how can he be his son?” No one was able to give him an answer, nor from that day did anyone dare to ask him any more questions.

Clearly, David, the author of the Psalm is the one referring to “my Lord” when he says ‘The Lord said to my Lord.’

It isn’t the Father calling the messiah ‘my Lord,’ it is David doing so in the Psalm.

What Jesus is getting at is that David wouldn’t call his descendent ‘my Lord’ if that descendent were purely a human being, he would have to be something more than merely human. Yet, the Messiah would be the promised son of David, so he would have to be a human being. How could he be both human and divine? is the question Jesus is posing to the Pharisees.

When you ask …

If the Father and Jesus in heaven make up one Yahweh, than why when they’re both in Heaven is Yahweh speaking to Jesus?

… the logical answer is that the Father was speaking to the Son in his human capacity as the son of David, which is why David “…by the Spirit calls him Lord, saying, ‘The LORD said to my Lord.’”

The Father isn’t calling the Son, ‘my Lord,’ that is David saying that. The Father is speaking to the Son, though, but he isn’t calling him 'my Lord." The Father is saying to the Son, Jesus, that he is to sit “…at my right hand.”

That is a Jewish figure of speech for sharing equally in divine power.

The proper context for this would be that Jesus by becoming man, i.e., son of David or son of man, emptied himself of that power in order to become a human being, but after his Ascension he was restored to the “right hand of power,” his proper place as the Second Person of the Trinity.

 

[Vico]

Based on what I’ve read, Jesus used it to demonstrate that the Messiah is greater than King David, and not just the Son of David.

The Most Holy Trinity is affirmed in the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed (381 A.D.), based upon these scriptures.

I believe in (Romans 10: 8-10; 1 John 4: 15)
One God (Deuteronomy 6: 4, Ephesians 4: 6)
Father (Matthew 6: 9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6: 3)
Creator of heaven and earth, (Genesis 1: 1)

and in one Lord, Jesus Christ, (Acts 11: 17)
Son of God (Matthew 14: 33; 16: 16)
begotten (John 1: 18; 3: 16)
begotten of the Father before all ages; (John 1: 2)
Light of Light (Psalm 27: I; John 8: 12; Matthew 17: 2,5)
true God of true God, (John 17: 1-5)
of one essence with the Father, (John 10: 30)
through Whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1: 1-2)

He is seated at the right hand of the Father; (Mark 16: 19; Acts 7: 55)

And in the holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord (Acts 5: 3-4)
the Giver of life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father, (John 15: 26)
Who together with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified, (Matthew 3: 16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets; (I Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5, 13)

http://www.serfes.org/orthodox/holyscripturereferencestothecreed.htm

 

[De_Maria]

Hi All,

I’ve read Psalm 110:1 in the Revised New Jerusalem Bible. It’s puzzling right from the start.

(Yahweh declared to my Lord, take your seat at my right hand, till I have made your enemies your footstool.

I’ve gone through this forum and many other web pages and seriously am having trouble with this. I firmly believe in the trinity, but I don’t know how to explain to speculators who refuse the trinity and use this verse against me. I’m finding it really difficult to explain it to them.

Any help would be appreciated

I’ll try.

Your first error is trying to get an answer from the Bible alone. We are not Bible alone people. It is from Sacred Tradition that we get the explicit Teaching of the Holy Trinity.

Your second error is talking to people that are Bible alone and taking their objections seriously. They can twist any verse to mean anything they want. If its not this one, it will be another one. For example, have you seen this verse in Scripture:

Hebrews 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

This is God the Father, in heaven, speaking to God the Son and calling Him, God.

And guess what, the naysayers deny this also. So, if you’re Catholic, tell them that the Scriptures are derived from Sacred Tradition and that Tradition is alive and develops and continues to be led into all truth by the Holy Spirit.

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself; but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak; and the things that are to come, he shall shew you.

And the Church which passes down this Tradition, infallibly, explains that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, have communicated with each other from all eternity.

I hope that helps.

 

[Arthur.k]

I’m really not a troll, I’m trying to prepare by educating myself more on the Catholic beliefs in order to defend against speculators.

Honestly though, you should think about what you’re writing before you write it, fortunately I’m not afraid of asking these types of questions, but other people may be and responses such as your only help deter people further from searching for the truth, and makes you partially responsible for this. I would recommend you go to confession and ask for forgiveness that you’re deterring people from searching for the truth themselves. Now tell me, would an anti-trinitarian/ant-catholic troll recommend such things?

 

[Arthur.k]

I’ve already replied to this above.

 

[Arthur.k]

Hi All,

Thanks for all of your insights, as there’s a lot of information to process here, it’ll take some time. If I have any more question I will revert back.

Thank you

 

[Mary888]

The dogma of the Holy Trinity is that God exists in Three Persons - Father, Son and Holy Spirit, so they can talk with each other since they have Personhood. The unity is also a perfect agreement between them as they keep their Personhood as such.
Remember that Christ did talk with God the Father in Getsemani for example having doubts. So I don’t think The Church ever presented the dogma of the Holy Trinity as a loss of Personhood of either Father, Son and Holy Spirit as one entity that could have a discussion between Each Other.
Maybe it’s because us people argue a lot and we are pretty violent that we mistake a discussion between Father and Son within the Holy Trinity as a lack of unity between Them.

 

[Arthur.k]

Arthur.k:

Yes,

But other people believe the Messiah is the Son of God, who is separate from Yahweh. Therefore this doesn’t work. I want to find a way to explain this to them. I tried explaining to them with example in the Bible, but the question that I could not answer is.

If the Father and Jesus in heaven make up one Yahweh, than why when they’re both in Heaven is Yahweh speaking to Jesus?

Jesus used this Psalm to refute the Pharisees who insisted that the son of David, the Messiah (the anointed one) would be merely a human messiah.

The passage is in Matt 22:40-5 …

Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them this question: “What do you think of the Messiah? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “The son of David.” He said to them, “How is it then that David by the Spirit calls him Lord, saying,
‘The LORD said to my Lord,
“Sit at my right hand,
until I put your enemies under your feet”’?
If David thus calls him Lord, how can he be his son?” No one was able to give him an answer, nor from that day did anyone dare to ask him any more questions.

Clearly, David, the author of the Psalm is the one referring to “my Lord” when he says ‘The Lord said to my Lord.’

It isn’t the Father calling the messiah ‘my Lord,’ it is David doing so in the Psalm.

What Jesus is getting at is that David wouldn’t call his descendent ‘my Lord’ if that descendent were purely a human being, he would have to be something more than merely human. Yet, the Messiah would be the promised son of David, so he would have to be a human being. How could he be both human and divine? is the question Jesus is posing to the Pharisees.

When you ask …

If the Father and Jesus in heaven make up one Yahweh, than why when they’re both in Heaven is Yahweh speaking to Jesus?

… the logical answer is that the Father was speaking to the Son in his human capacity as the son of David, which is why David “…by the Spirit calls him Lord, saying, ‘The LORD said to my Lord.’”

The Father isn’t calling the Son, ‘my Lord,’ that is David saying that. The Father is speaking to the Son, though, but he isn’t calling him 'my Lord." The Father is saying to the Son, Jesus, that he is to sit “…at my right hand.”

That is a Jewish figure of speech for sharing equally in divine power.

The proper context for this would be that Jesus by becoming man, i.e., son of David or son of man, emptied himself of that power in order to become a human being, but after his Ascension he was restored to the “right hand of power,” his proper place as the Second Person of the Trinity.

Thank you very much, this answers my question I understand now how to interpret this verse

 

[EloyCraft]

I wonder if their were 4 persons who could say ’ I always was’. Would they all be God?