Psalm 14

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Does Psalm 14 imply that no one does what is right ? Verse 2 and 3 seem to say this but the rest of the Psalm seems to imply there is a group “my people” that are victims of the “evildoers”.
 
ajcstr said:
Does Psalm 14 imply that no one does what is right ? Verse 2 and 3 seem to say this but the rest of the Psalm seems to imply there is a group “my people” that are victims of the “evildoers”.
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The Psalms are poetry, not history or dogmatic theology. Psalm 14 is in the style of a lament, hence its “Ack, everything is terrible and we Jews are being persecuted!” mentality. Compare Ps. 11:5 (“The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked”), 33:1 (“Rejoice in the Lord, O you righteous”), 36:10 (“O continue your steadfast love to those who know you, and your salvation to the upright of heart!”), 84:11 (“No good thing does the Lord withhold from those who walk uprightly”), and plenty of others, which all contradict the thesis that there is no one who does good and all mankind are evildoers. Again, the Psalms are poetic works and are meant to invoke different emotions and different aspects of the religious experience.
 
MarkThompson said:
The Psalms are poetry, not history or dogmatic theology. Psalm 14 is in the style of a lament, hence its “Ack, everything is terrible and we Jews are being persecuted!” mentality. Compare Ps. 11:5 (“The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked”), 33:1 (“Rejoice in the Lord, O you righteous”), 36:10 (“O continue your steadfast love to those who know you, and your salvation to the upright of heart!”), 84:11 (“No good thing does the Lord withhold from those who walk uprightly”), and plenty of others, which all contradict the thesis that there is no one who does good and all mankind are evildoers. Again, the Psalms are poetic works and are meant to invoke different emotions and different aspects of the religious experience.
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Well, the real direction of my question is that in Romans 8, Paul quotes directly from the Psalm and seems to be using it to say that no one does good. Scott Hahn argues that by reading the whole Psalm, Paul can’t really be saying that because in his view, the Psalm is referring to the people who are against “His people” and not all of humanity. So I wanted to see how may agreed with this interpretation because of its impact in interpreting Romans.
 
ajcstr said:
Well, the real direction of my question is that in Romans 8, Paul quotes directly from the Psalm and seems to be using it to say that no one does good. Scott Hahn argues that by reading the whole Psalm, Paul can’t really be saying that because in his view, the Psalm is referring to the people who are against “His people” and not all of humanity. So I wanted to see how may agreed with this interpretation because of its impact in interpreting Romans.
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4:2 seems to be referring to all humanity, not just Israel’s enemies. But I would agree with MarkThompson that the Psalms are primarily emotive poetry. Certainly we all feel this way times–like there is nothing good happening in the world.
 
MarkThompson said:
The Psalms are poetry, not history or dogmatic theology. Psalm 14 is in the style of a lament, hence its “Ack, everything is terrible and we Jews are being persecuted!” mentality. Compare Ps. 11:5 (“The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked”), 33:1 (“Rejoice in the Lord, O you righteous”), 36:10 (“O continue your steadfast love to those who know you, and your salvation to the upright of heart!”), 84:11 (“No good thing does the Lord withhold from those who walk uprightly”), and plenty of others, which all contradict the thesis that there is no one who does good and all mankind are evildoers. Again, the Psalms are poetic works and are meant to invoke different emotions and different aspects of the religious experience.
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The Psalms were written under inspiration just as any other book in the bible. We should read from Psalms also and will learn a lot as well. For example, Psalm 16:10 says “For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.” The root word for hell is “sheol” “grave” “pit” and not a fiery place of eternal punishment. That’s lesson one.

Secondly, Peter, in Acts 2:27, 28 quoted David from the PSALMS explaining that David is both dead and buried and is with us. (verse 29) Again, from the root word we learn from both verses that hell is not a fiery place of eternal punishment but the “grave.” Peter did not quote David for poetry. He quoted him while spreading the Gospel of Jesus.

Psalms is not just poetry. From that book and Proverbs we learn things. God gave us the entire bible to learn from, not just certain books.

Written with love
 
That’s excatly what it means.
Do you know anyone who has never told a white lie or had a bad thought?

Romans 3:10
As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

The only person who did not sin was Jesus.

Did you know…

The Bible says no sin can enter into Heaven.

Revelation 21:27
And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Psalm 3:4
For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.

There has to be a death payment made for sin.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Jesus made that death payment.
Romans 5:8
But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

All we have to do is accept the payment Jesus made.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Not by works

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Eph 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
 
And by this we know that we have known him, if we keep his commandments. He who saith that he knoweth him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:3-4

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing in the presence of the throne, and the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged by those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Revelation 20:12-13

Sounds like you’re clinging to non-Biblical Protestant ideas of salvation, RealEstateCarol. I once believed them too… until Christ and His Church opened my eyes to the complete Bible (not merely cherry-picked parts of it).
 
Mark_David said:
And by this we know that we have known him, if we keep his commandments. He who saith that he knoweth him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:3-4

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing in the presence of the throne, and the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged by those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Revelation 20:12-13

Sounds like you’re clinging to non-Biblical Protestant ideas of salvation, RealEstateCarol. I once believed them too… until Christ and His Church opened my eyes to the complete Bible (not merely cherry-picked parts of it).
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1 John 2:3-4
Beginning with verse 3, John directly deals with the specific problem plaguing these Believers - false doctrine being taught by those he categorizes in verses 18 and 22 He sets the stage for dealing with these false teachers in verse 3, “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.” In other words, when Believers follow the commands of Christ, they demonstrate that they know Christ as Savior. There’s a shift between verses 3 and 4; that shift is the plural pronoun “we” in verse 3 and the singular Greek present active participle in verse 4 translated “He that saith.” Then we have a perfect active Greek verb that holds the connotation of a past profession that says, “He that says I have known him…” Here’s the deal on that distinction in grammar: The antichrists mentioned later in this chapter are described in verse 19 like this, “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.” So, verses 3-4 set up the rest of the chapter by warning that there are those false teachers who have no respect for the commands of Christ, and their actions demonstrate such.

Revelation 20:12-13
If you read farther you see he is talking about the unbelievers.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

You are right, we cannot cherry pick. If I have a problem with a verse, I read the WHOLE chapter to see what it means.

I have posted MANY verses that say it is by faith alone. You have 2 that you took out of context.

My answers are Biblical
 
ajcstr said:
Does Psalm 14 imply that no one does what is right ? Verse 2 and 3 seem to say this but the rest of the Psalm seems to imply there is a group “my people” that are victims of the “evildoers”.
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The meaning of the words in the beginning of verse 3 :הכל סר יחדיו
in english “everyone has gone astray” in the context of the psalm is that no one from among the nations protests the atrocities perpetrated by his leaders against Israel (see Rashi) .
 
A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth that which is evil. For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. And why call you me, Lord, Lord; and do not the things which I say? Every one that cometh to me, and heareth my words, and doth them, I will shew you to whom he is like. Luke 6:45-47

But I presume that you’ll think that I’m taking this Scripture out of context too, yes?

I’m sure you’ve posted many supposed “sola fide” verses here; I once clung to many of them as well - if not all of them (they’d only fill up two or three pages at most). Problem is, they’re all out of context regarding each book, as well as the entire Bible, and also what His Church has handed down and teaches us to this very day.

“Faith alone” is heresy, no matter how many different ways one tries to personally interpret (or deliberately skewer) Scripture.
 
=ajcstr;7943422]Does Psalm 14 imply that no one does what is right ? Verse 2 and 3 seem to say this but the rest of the Psalm seems to imply there is a group “my people” that are victims of the “evildoers”.
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NOT QUITE:D

Psalm 14: 1

[1] The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none that does good…

Here is what it means:

**1 John 1: 8-10 ** “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”

The Message here is that because we CAN [SIN]; we DO SIN ! ALL OF US.:o

1John.5 Verses 16 to 17 " If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will gie him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal."

***MORTAL SIN is so grevious as to completely seperate us from God until we R&C…

REPENT AND CONVERT! ***

On the very night that Jesus OFFICIALLY institues the CC He ALSO institued the Sacramnet of Known fORGIVENESS OF SIN:thumbsup:

John.20 Verses 19 to 23 " On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. *** Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” *** And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

NOTE THE FOLLOWING:
  1. ONLY God can and ONLY GOD DOES Forgive sins
  2. This is both a perfection of and completion of OT Practices of FORGIVENESS OF SINS THROUGH THE HELP AND ACTIONS OF PRIEST: *Lev.4: 26, 35 And all its fat he shall burn on the altar, like the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings; so the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin, and he shall be forgiven. … And all its fat he shall remove as the fat of the lamb is removed from the sacrifice of peace offerings, and the priest shall burn it on the altar, upon the offerings by fire to the LORD; and the priest shall make atonement for him for the sin which he has committed, and he shall be forgiven. ***
  3. The completation and PERFECTION is now that GRACE flows form the ACTION of God’s NT [Catholic] Priest, and the priest is EMPOWERD BY GOD "verse 21: “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” MEANS IN MY GODLY POWERS, WISDOM AND AUTHORITY!…
    The CC is oblidged and COMMANDED by God to decide who is TRULY Repentant and has a conversion of HEART, and who does not. GOD ONLY FROGIVES THE SINS OF THOSE HIS PRIEST ATTEST are worthy of His forgiveness.
God Bless,
Pat
 
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