Psalm 69 and the "brothers" of Jesus

[The_Iambic_Pen]

I have been browsing Protestant web sites lately, in an attempt to see a reasoned defense of the Protestant viewpoint. Usually, this attempt has proved futile, but now and then I do find something interesting. I went to the site, carm.org, which, I must admit, does state some false things about Catholicism (like that the Deuterocanonicals were “added” to the canon in 1546). However, it did have an interesting article about Psalm 69 and the brothers of Jesus. The article said that Psalm 69 is a Messianic Psalm because Jesus quotes from it twice in relation to Himself.

Jesus quotes Psalm 69:4 in John 15:25, “But they have done this in order that the word may be fulfilled that is written in their Law, ‘They hated Me without a cause.’”
He also quotes Psalm 69:9 in John 2:16-17, "and to those who were selling the doves He said, “Take these things away; stop making My Father’s house a house of merchandise.” His disciples remembered that it was written, “Zeal for Thy house will consume me.”

Then, the article moved on to mention Psalm 69:8:

I have become estranged from my brothers, and an alien to my mother’s sons.

The article says that this verse means Jesus clearly has brothers. Any thoughts on this? I am familiar with the arguments against Jesus having brothers (the most compelling one, in my opinion, being Jesus telling John to take care of Mary), but I wondered if any of you have encountered this passage before. Thanks for any information!

God Bless!

 

[But_for_Grace]

It all depends on how you read it.

In one scence it is a Messianic Psalm dealing especially with the rejection that Christ recieves from the Jews and is most pointedly applicable to the passion. Here I would say that this Psalm speaks of his “mother’s children” as a reference to the Jewish people. This fits very well with how we see the Jews reacting to Christ in the Gospel of John.

Remember the Psalm is primarily a Psalm of David, that is it deals with the life of David and his emotions. God then uses this to show us his Son. Literally this Psalm says that David’s brothers rejected him and were estranged from him.

 

[Sandtigress]

If you read all of Psalm 69, you hit this passage:

5 You know my folly, O God;
   my guilt is not hidden from you.

Of course, Jesus committed no follies, He has no guilt - so I would say that while many parts of Psalm 69 can be used to describe Jesus’ suffering, it cannot be considered completely Messianic in nature. Hope that helps you, this one stumped me before too. Peace be with you!

 

[The_Iambic_Pen]

sandtigress:

If you read all of Psalm 69, you hit this passage:

5 You know my folly, O God;
my guilt is not hidden from you.

Of course, Jesus committed no follies, He has no guilt - so I would say that while many parts of Psalm 69 can be used to describe Jesus’ suffering, it cannot be considered completely Messianic in nature. Hope that helps you, this one stumped me before too. Peace be with you!

All right, that makes sense. I guess sometimes it’s hard knowing which parts of a prophetic Psalm are prophetic and which parts or not. Thanks!

God Bless!

 

[javelin]

I’ve never seen this argument before, but here’s my take on it:

  	 				I have become estranged from my brothers, and an alien to my mother’s sons.

If this passage *was *intended to be Messianic, which do you think is the more powerful and important image to project:

1. That the Messiah’s people–the Jewish people–would reject him and treat him as an outcast.

–OR–

1. That a few of the Messiah’s blood-brothers, specifically from the same mother, would regard him as an outcast.

If you look at the Old Testament, being spurned by a blood-brother is nothing very unique or special – it goes all the way back to Cain and Abel, and recurrs several times. After all, there have been countless feuds between blood-brothers throughout time.

But to have the entire nation of Israel reject someone? That is not typical, nor is it a trivial matter. It foreshadows the profound reality that the Jews would not recognize, and actually reject the Messiah they have been awaiting for generations.

So, in light of that, do you think we should interpret “brother” here as “blood brother”, or do you think we should interpret it with the more inclusive “kinsmen”, with “mother” signifying the nation of Israel?

Peace,
javelin

 

[BibleReader]

The Iambic Pen:

I have been browsing Protestant web sites lately, in an attempt to see a reasoned defense of the Protestant viewpoint. Usually, this attempt has proved futile, but now and then I do find something interesting. I went to the site, carm.org, which, I must admit, does state some false things about Catholicism (like that the Deuterocanonicals were “added” to the canon in 1546). However, it did have an interesting article about Psalm 69 and the brothers of Jesus. The article said that Psalm 69 is a Messianic Psalm because Jesus quotes from it twice in relation to Himself.

Then, the article moved on to mention Psalm 69:8:
The article says that this verse means Jesus clearly has brothers. Any thoughts on this? I am familiar with the arguments against Jesus having brothers (the most compelling one, in my opinion, being Jesus telling John to take care of Mary), but I wondered if any of you have encountered this passage before. Thanks for any information!

God Bless!

King David is the speaker at the plaintext level. Christ IS the speaker at the typological sensus plenior level. However, who authorized those urging that Jesus had brothers to “turn off” the typological thinking half-way through the verse? Note only is Christ being typologically referred to, but the “mother” is the Woman Type, referring to “mankind in need of salvation” in the Old Testament Church, and the “brothers” are the Man Type, referring to those “empowered by God” in the same Old Terstament Church, Judaism. Look at history: Who killed Jesus? “Blood brothers” of some sort, or typological “brothers,” the powers-that-be in Judaism?

 

[Tom]

The Iambic Pen:

I have been browsing Protestant web sites lately, in an attempt to see a reasoned defense of the Protestant viewpoint. Usually, this attempt has proved futile, but now and then I do find something interesting. I went to the site, carm.org, which, I must admit, does state some false things about Catholicism (like that the Deuterocanonicals were “added” to the canon in 1546). However, it did have an interesting article about Psalm 69 and the brothers of Jesus. The article said that Psalm 69 is a Messianic Psalm because Jesus quotes from it twice in relation to Himself.

Then, the article moved on to mention Psalm 69:8:
The article says that this verse means Jesus clearly has brothers. Any thoughts on this? I am familiar with the arguments against Jesus having brothers (the most compelling one, in my opinion, being Jesus telling John to take care of Mary), but I wondered if any of you have encountered this passage before. Thanks for any information!

God Bless!

DR:

Mark 3,35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, he is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Well, aren’t we all “Brothers” in Jesus Christ?
DR:

Romans 8,14 For whosoever are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.15 For you have not received the spirit of bondage again in fear; but you have received the spirit of adoption of sons, whereby we cry: Abba (Father).16 For the Spirit himself giveth testimony to our spirit, that we are the sons of God. 17 And if sons, heirs also; heirs indeed of God, and joint heirs with Christ: yet so, if we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified with him.

DR:

Romans 8,19 For the expectation of the creature waiteth for the revelation of the sons of God.

DR:

Romans 8,23 And not only it, but ourselves also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption of the sons of God, the redemption of our body.

Aren’t all Christians “sons” of our Mother Mary?
DR:

Apocalypse 12 , 17 And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I really don’t see much of a conflict. Mary has other children, every Christian is one, there are Billions of us, what’s the problem?

 

[Genesis315]

I always kind of saw it as how the apostles (except for John) all seem to abandon Him when He is Crucified.

Although, I think the people of Israel one probably makes more sense.