Psionics

[mk1486]

Hi,

I’ve been Catholic “my whole life” and am currently practicing (going to mass, the sacraments, active prayer life, etc.).

About a year ago, I started practicing something called Psionics.

For those of you who do not know what Psionics is, here is a more or less brief explanation:

Psionics is the use of a specific type of “psychic” energy associated with the nervous system to do work–it can include most of the abilities generally considered psychic (such as telepathy, or moving objects with the mind, as well as some that most people haven’t heard of).

Psi “energy” seems to have electromagnetic properties and it seems to be associated with nervous system function. In other words, more energy is produced with greater activity in the nervous system.

Although some use Psionics to attempt to “tell the future”, I do not believe that such an ability is possible. Also, if telekinesis (moving objects with the mind) is possible with Psionics, I would not care as it seems to me a waste of time.

I use it almost exclusively for focal meditation, relaxation techniques, and empathy along with a few other things.

The question is: Is this contrary to the objective teachings of the Catholic Church?

I do not believe that it is and I will not accept any argument blindly, although I am more that willing to be shown the truth.

I will be more than happy to clarify or explain anything I can.

Thank you for your time.

P.S. I’m really not sure whether this is in the right place in the forum so please let me know if I need to change some things.

 

[willofgods]

I frequently look at an out-of-reach object and with an outstretched arm think to myself “Use the force, Luke!”

Have you tried it while praying the Rosary or something along those lines?

As long as you’re not doing this:

CCC 2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and **have a supernatural power over others **-- even if this were for the sake of restoring their health – are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. …]

I think you’re fine.

 

[mk1486]

I often use it to calm myself before and during prayer (including the rosary).

I’m not using it to “have a supernatural power over others” so, hopefully, I should be in the clear.

One of the objections I’ve heard is that it falls under “the occult” as listed in the CCC.

Thanks for replying!

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

It doesn’t look like in violation of anything. From what you say, you’re not trying to tame ‘occult powers’ and more like simply trying to train yourself in mental discipline and fortitude.

The Church defines the occult as anything that constitute worship of something other than God in order to attain so-called ‘supernatural powers’. Were you doing something along the lines of calling forth spirits or some other neo-pagan tomfoolery, then that would be cause for concern.

In this case though, all you’re doing is pure, raw mental concentration. I doubt it’d be enough to move objects with your mind (at least as far as our current human brain is capable of ) but I sure wish I could do that.

 

[mk1486]

@Lost Wanderer I agree that moving objects is probably outside (or at least on the edge) of our mind’s capacity.

However, I have delved a bit farther than concentration in working with “energy sensing and manipulation”.

This involves things like forming “energy” into what are called “constructs” or “thought forms”.

Such “constructs” could be a variety of things like “energetic shields” (isolating one’s self from external “energies” to variable degrees), wards (essentially trying to fill an area with “energy” directed towards a simple task such as “relax”), or something like an alarm clock (I’ve used this to wake up within minutes of when I want to wake up and it usually works better than most alarm clocks).

Some people claim that they can form more or less sentient “constructs” or “thought forms”, but again, I believe that this is outside the bounds or possibility.

I believe this to be also unprohibited by The Church as anyone can do it if they try hard and long enough and that it is not a “supernatural power over others”, but instead is not supernatural as it will eventually be explained by science.

Any thoughts?

 

[michelleds]

@Lost Wanderer I agree that moving objects is probably outside (or at least on the edge) of our mind’s capacity.

However, I have delved a bit farther than concentration in working with “energy sensing and manipulation”.

This involves things like forming “energy” into what are called “constructs” or “thought forms”.

Such “constructs” could be a variety of things like “energetic shields” (isolating one’s self from external “energies” to variable degrees), wards (essentially trying to fill an area with “energy” directed towards a simple task such as “relax”), or something like an alarm clock (I’ve used this to wake up within minutes of when I want to wake up and it usually works better than most alarm clocks).

Some people claim that they can form more or less sentient “constructs” or “thought forms”, but again, I believe that this is outside the bounds or possibility.

I believe this to be also unprohibited by The Church as anyone can do it if they try hard and long enough and that it is not a “supernatural power over others”, but instead is not supernatural as it will eventually be explained by science.

Any thoughts?

As a recent convert to Catholicism and a revert to Christianity, my advice–my strong advice–is to stop. absolutely stop, cease and desist. You are, in fact, playing with the Occult, in it’s more insidious and innocent-looking guise. using energies, wards, constructs, and oh my heavens, “thought forms” is all straight from witchcraft 101 and 201. “thought forms” are demons. period. you will believe that you individually and personally are “using or manipulating energies” but in fact you are just opening yourself wide and inviting in evil.

 

[puzzleannie]

Hi,
I use it almost exclusively for focal meditation, relaxation techniques, and empathy along with a few other things.

The question is: Is this contrary to the objective teachings of the Catholic Church?

I do not believe that it is and I will not accept any argument blindly, although I am more that willing to be shown the truth.
.

don’t know what you mean by “almost” and “empathy”. Also it sounds exceedingly unscientific but since I never heard of it I won’t label it new age until I find a reliable source that says so. that being said I have no idea if is contrary to objective teachings of the Church, but if any part of this “system” claims to provide supernatural knowledge or abilities it is most definitely against the 1st commandment. Why would you not rather use the time and energy to explore classic Christian spirituality on prayer, meditation and contemplation, with God as your end, not “relaxation, focal, empathy” or whatever.

 

[promethius]

As a recent convert to Catholicism and a revert to Christianity, my advice–my strong advice–is to stop. absolutely stop, cease and desist. You are, in fact, playing with the Occult, in it’s more insidious and innocent-looking guise. using energies, wards, constructs, and oh my heavens, “thought forms” is all straight from witchcraft 101 and 201. “thought forms” are demons. period. you will believe that you individually and personally are “using or manipulating energies” but in fact you are just opening yourself wide and inviting in evil.

I agree, this practice sounds horrendously dangerous to me in that it tries to use “psuedo-science” terms to describe VERY occult practices.

The basis of occult practice is this: it presupposes a third source of power. That is, we know that God’s grace is power, and we know that demons possess spiritual power… what the occult proposes is that there is a mysterious neutral “third source” of power which human beings can control. That simply disagrees with the church’s teachings. There is no such neutral or human power which can be used to sheild ones’ self from evil, for example. The only power that can do that is Christ.

Why do I call it pseudo-science? Because the human body, even if we could control all of our neural systems, lacks any capability of manipulating electro-magnetic feilds… at all. It’s also a common myth that we only use 10% of our brains and that by practicing we can “tap into” those other areas and control things around us. The reality is that we use most of our brain subconsciously and in varying patterns for different tasks. The myth does sound enticing though… because it offers us that temptation to seek additional power which, simply put, human beings do not possess.

What I don’t get is why so many people turn to this pseudo-science stuff anyway… the church HAS meditations and calming exercises, as well as focusing techniques, etc, which work to the exact same effect and promote further reliance on grace and discipline rather than reliance on a mystical, non-existant, third power source…

 

[michelleds]

What I don’t get is why so many people turn to this pseudo-science stuff anyway… the church HAS meditations and calming exercises, as well as focusing techniques, etc, which work to the exact same effect and promote further reliance on grace and discipline rather than reliance on a mystical, non-existant, third power source…

My guess is because hollywood hasn’t made any cool movies, no one has written any enticing novels, and there aren’t any D&D type games about such.

 

[mk1486]

Thanks for all the replies and I will do my best to answer or comment on everything.

“As a recent convert to Catholicism and a revert to Christianity, my advice–my strong advice–is to stop. absolutely stop, cease and desist. You are, in fact, playing with the Occult, in it’s more insidious and innocent-looking guise. using energies, wards, constructs, and oh my heavens, “thought forms” is all straight from witchcraft 101 and 201. “thought forms” are demons. period. you will believe that you individually and personally are “using or manipulating energies” but in fact you are just opening yourself wide and inviting in evil”

Thank you for your advice, but please know that I’m not quite on my way to “stop, cease and desist”.

I delved into what most people call the occult before and backed out quickly when I got a glimpse of what it is. I.E., I’m not new to this whole thing.

Next, I have no idea where you got the idea where you got the thought that thought forms are demons. Thought forms are completely from people and are used to call demons in witchcraft. They are not demons and never could be.

I understand that it can be dangerous, but that’s not what I’m asking. I’m asking if it is fundamentally contradictory to The Church’s teachings.

“don’t know what you mean by “almost” and “empathy”. Also it sounds exceedingly unscientific but since I never heard of it I won’t label it new age until I find a reliable source that says so. that being said I have no idea if is contrary to objective teachings of the Church, but if any part of this “system” claims to provide supernatural knowledge or abilities it is most definitely against the 1st commandment. Why would you not rather use the time and energy to explore classic Christian spirituality on prayer, meditation and contemplation, with God as your end, not “relaxation, focal, empathy” or whatever.”

By almost I mean that I use psionics daily for focus and meditation and for other things a few times a week.

By empathy I mean “feeling” the emotions of others. I have possesed this ability for far longer than I have practiced psionics and psionics is the only source I have found that explains it aside from being a psychological condition (which I don’t think it is in my case. Again, I invite you to prove me wrong).

It is not exceedingly scientific. I’m a skeptic and I found it to be methodological enough to be believable. Some new age groups have used it and/or pulled it into their theories, but I don’t find the core ideas to be very new age. (The site I frequent most is psionguild.org/ if you want to check it out for definitions and such.)

I would like to say that psionics is not supernatural, but honestly and simply I do not know.

God is my end and there shouldn’t be any problem with trying to grow in holiness outside of the norm as long as my practices are not actually contradictory to the teachings of The Church.

*"I agree, this practice sounds horrendously dangerous to me in that it tries to use “psuedo-science” terms to describe VERY occult practices.

The basis of occult practice is this: it presupposes a third source of power. That is, we know that God’s grace is power, and we know that demons possess spiritual power… what the occult proposes is that there is a mysterious neutral “third source” of power which human beings can control. That simply disagrees with the church’s teachings. There is no such neutral or human power which can be used to sheild ones’ self from evil, for example. The only power that can do that is Christ.

Why do I call it pseudo-science? Because the human body, even if we could control all of our neural systems, lacks any capability of manipulating electro-magnetic feilds… at all. It’s also a common myth that we only use 10% of our brains and that by practicing we can “tap into” those other areas and control things around us. The reality is that we use most of our brain subconsciously and in varying patterns for different tasks. The myth does sound enticing though… because it offers us that temptation to seek additional power which, simply put, human beings do not possess.

What I don’t get is why so many people turn to this pseudo-science stuff anyway… the church HAS meditations and calming exercises, as well as focusing techniques, etc, which work to the exact same effect and promote further reliance on grace and discipline rather than reliance on a mystical, non-existant, third power source…"*

Thank you for your concern.

I have several objections:

Psionics does not have to presuppose a third sort of power. Who is to say that all of these powers (including the spiritual power of the demons which could, hypothetically, be God’s power corrupted) come from God?

Psionic energy is not electromagnetic and no one has ever claimed it to be so.

I can not definitely say that it is a science, but it is pretty scientific in its methodology.

First of all, most people don’t have The Church in the first place. I understand that the Church has such exercises, but I found the ones I use to be more than effective. If you can point me to something better, I will be happy to try it out.

Lastly, I believe it is more than a “mystical, non-existant, third power source”. If I did not believe that I would not be here.

“My guess is because hollywood hasn’t made any cool movies, no one has written any enticing novels, and there aren’t any D&D type games about such”

Please do not think I am dabbling in a fantasy practice or that such fantasies are or ever were my motivation for such a practice.

Whether is is legitimate or the work of demons, it is definitely real in some way or another.

Thank you all for your replies and I look forward to hear more of what you have to say.

 

[promethius]

I would like to say that psionics is not supernatural, but honestly and simply I do not know.

I know this portion wasn’t directed at me, but I feel the need to respond that if you don’t know if what you’re dealing with is supernatural or not, and you don’t know if it’s contradictory to church teaching, then that alone would be enough, in my book, to avoid the practice.

Then again, perhaps my study into demonology has made me overly paranoid, but I’m certainly apt to avoid any sort of practice which relies on any source of power other than Christ’s grace.

Thank you for your concern.

I have several objections:

Psionics does not have to presuppose a third sort of power. Who is to say that all of these powers (including the spiritual power of the demons which could, hypothetically, be God’s power corrupted) come from God?

Nope. Demons, by their nature, have certain spiritual authority which is vested in and of their being. The demons do not use the power of God against God, that would not even be possible for Grace itself to be twisted and contradictorily squared against Grace.

Psionic energy, as you’re discussing it, comes from and is vested human nature and is a neutral power that we can manipulate… that simply is not the case of human nature… we have only the graces from God, which either:

1. cannot be activated by our will, only by God’s
   OR
2. can only be activated by the proscribed rites given to us by God through His church.

We have no means of demanding charisms, and no neutral third power source to produce anything resembling a charism.

Psionic energy is not electromagnetic and no one has ever claimed it to be so.

Sorry, allow me to clarify: psionic energy, according to your post, has to do with the nervous system. The nervous system operates on electromagnetic energy… that’s how the neural cells communicate with each other…

Furthermore, you mentioned telekenesis, which assumes an operating force on an object. If that is the case, the two options are gravity and electromagnetic force. Telekenesis is always portrayed as a manipulation of electromagnetic forces.

This is why I’m pointing out that these ideas that human beings can somehow “unlock” their neural and nervous systems to control this third energy can’t be true… because there is no evidence whatsoever for this neutral third source of power (which the church teaches does not exist) and when we look at the forces available to accomplish what is proposed, the human body lacks the instruments to change or manipulate those forces.

It’s bad science. I have a physics degree, trust me.

I can not definitely say that it is a science, but it is pretty scientific in its methodology.

There is a difference between emperical and scientific and many people get the two mixed up.

First of all, most people don’t have The Church in the first place. I understand that the Church has such exercises, but I found the ones I use to be more than effective. If you can point me to something better, I will be happy to try it out.

Most people are in a state of danger without the church then, especially if they choose instead to approach the occult or other non-existant sources of power.

I would suggest, if you’re looking for models of proper Christian mysticism, St Francis and Padre Pio would be good examples to consider in terms of their exercises.

Lastly, I believe it is more than a “mystical, non-existant, third power source”. If I did not believe that I would not be here.

Of course you believe it is more than mystical and non-existant… but there is no teaching, scientific or religious, which asserts that such a power exists. I can believe in dragons, but that doesn’t change the fact that they are mystical and non-existant.

I’m telling you, the fundamentals of occultism are all present in what you’re describing. The only difference is that instead of calling it “nature magic” you’re calling is “psionic energy”, and then doing much the same activities with much the same goals. It doesn’t matter what words you use to describe it if the principle is ultimately the same (and dangerous)

 

[mk1486]

First of all, thank you for your response.

“I know this portion wasn’t directed at me, but I feel the need to respond that if you don’t know if what you’re dealing with is supernatural or not, and you don’t know if it’s contradictory to church teaching, then that alone would be enough, in my book, to avoid the practice.”

I find I’m too deep to simply “avoid” it and, as you said, that might be enough to try and stay away. Unfortunately, I can’t bring myself to leave unless I have a good reason (I.E. I’m convinced that it is bringing me down and always will) as it does work.

*“Then again, perhaps my study into demonology has made me overly paranoid, but I’m certainly apt to avoid any sort of practice which relies on any source of power other than Christ’s grace.”
*

I’ll tell you, I did some study into the whole Satanism and Demonology thing from the occult side with a little from The Church’s side and it makes me quite paranoid as well. That’s why I dropped the deeper occult stuff as quickly as I did.

“Nope. Demons, by their nature, have certain spiritual authority which is vested in and of their being. The demons do not use the power of God against God, that would not even be possible for Grace itself to be twisted and contradictorily squared against Grace.”

Thank you for that clarification as you obviously know more about the subject than I do. However, I still do not think that it rules out the possibility of a neutral power.

"Psionic energy, as you’re discussing it, comes from and is vested human nature and is a neutral power that we can manipulate… that simply is not the case of human nature… we have only the graces from God, which either:

1. cannot be activated by our will, only by God’s
   OR
2. can only be activated by the proscribed rites given to us by God through His church.

We have no means of demanding charisms, and no neutral third power source to produce anything resembling a charism."

One idea that had been presented is that our souls can act supernaturally in themselves. (I seriously doubt it, but I haven’t been able to eliminate the possibility.)

What about the idea that we can reject God’s grace? Couldn’t everyone be offered the gifts of Psionics and only a few are able to/choose to use them? Did not Christ say:*
“Matthew 17:20 Greek Study Bible (Apostolic / Interlinear)
ὁ δὲ λέγει αὐτοῖς· διὰ τὴν ὀλιγοπιστίαν ὑμῶν· ἀμὴν γὰρ λέγω ὑμῖν, ἐὰν ἔχητε πίστιν ὡς κόκκον σινάπεως, ερεῖτε τῷ ὄρει τούτῳ· μετάβα ἔνθεν ἐκεῖ, καὶ μεταβήσεται· καὶ οὐδὲν ἀδυνατήσει ὑμῖν.
KJV with Strong’s
And Jesus said unto them Because of your unbelief for verily I say unto you If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed ye shall say unto this mountain Remove hence to yonder place and it shall remove and nothing shall be impossible unto you.”*

I’m no new testament scholar (I know the best of the best I.E. Dr. Waldstein so I can ask him if we need clarification), but the greek word for “faith” can also be translated as " belief, trust, confidence" (maybe I’m taking this out of context). Could not Christ be implicating the existence of something alike to Psionics?

(Here I feel bad that I’m throwing out everything in the hope of an explanation.)

In other words, I don’t think that it necessarily means that Psionics is contrary to The Faith. Can you be more specific? I believe it, but it seems like there might be room for Psionics

 

[mk1486]

*"Sorry, allow me to clarify: psionic energy, according to your post, has to do with the nervous system. The nervous system operates on electromagnetic energy… that’s how the neural cells communicate with each other…

Furthermore, you mentioned telekenesis, which assumes an operating force on an object. If that is the case, the two options are gravity and electromagnetic force. Telekenesis is always portrayed as a manipulation of electromagnetic forces.

This is why I’m pointing out that these ideas that human beings can somehow “unlock” their neural and nervous systems to control this third energy can’t be true… because there is no evidence whatsoever for this neutral third source of power (which the church teaches does not exist) and when we look at the forces available to accomplish what is proposed, the human body lacks the instruments to change or manipulate those forces.

It’s bad science. I have a physics degree, trust me."*

First, I trust that you know your stuff and I understand that it doesn’t make much to any sense from the point of view of a physicist.

The only people who attempt to explain psi energy as “natural” don’t have much of an explanation.

To get you to see a bit more of where I’m coming from, here are a few definitions from ANKA’s school of thought (I do not really agree with him):
"Life energy: This energy has unique properties, and doesn’t seem to have any associations with electromagnetism or with quantum. It is present in all living things, and in humans seems to originate from an energy center located just below the navel. This energy type is the one most often used by martial artists and Eastern style energy workers.
Psi energy: This energy seems to be produced by or is associated with nervous system activity, and is present in all animals which have a nervous system, and some plants which have similar structures. It has properties similar to energies in the electromagnetic spectrum. Nerve clusters which seem to be particularly associated with producing this energy include several areas of the brain, the solar plexus, and the nerves in the skin. The spinal cord also produces a great deal of energy, but doesn’t seem to be associated with any specific psychic functions."

To put it simply, I really can’t explain it and neither can anyone in the Psionic community. It might be some unknown energy, but I would be willing to consider Psionics as supernatural for simplicity’s sake.

“There is a difference between emperical and scientific and many people get the two mixed up.”

I understand. Let’s leave it as scientific.

"Most people are in a state of danger without the church then, especially if they choose instead to approach the occult or other non-existant sources of power.

I would suggest, if you’re looking for models of proper Christian mysticism, St Francis and Padre Pio would be good examples to consider in terms of their exercises."

Thank you. I’ll read into them and at least skim their exercises soon for discussion. However, I doubt they will be specific enough for my tastes

*"Of course you believe it is more than mystical and non-existant… but there is no teaching, scientific or religious, which asserts that such a power exists. I can believe in dragons, but that doesn’t change the fact that they are mystical and non-existant.

I’m telling you, the fundamentals of occultism are all present in what you’re describing. The only difference is that instead of calling it “nature magic” you’re calling is “psionic energy”, and then doing much the same activities with much the same goals. It doesn’t matter what words you use to describe it if the principle is ultimately the same (and dangerous)"*

I have seen no teaching that it does not exist. Unlike dragons, there is significant evidence. Some of which I will be happy to present (unfortunately, it is not scientifically rigorous and I do not expect to convince you).

I will continue as I can to back up these ideas. As I have said, they are quite ingrained in my life. Most prominently through empathy. If you could find some saint who explains empathy and how to deal with it, I will be much more likely to end this practice.

Thank you for your thoughts on the matter and I look forward to your response.

 

[thistle]

Hi,

I’ve been Catholic “my whole life” and am currently practicing (going to mass, the sacraments, active prayer life, etc.).

About a year ago, I started practicing something called Psionics.

For those of you who do not know what Psionics is, here is a more or less brief explanation:

Psionics is the use of a specific type of “psychic” energy associated with the nervous system to do work–it can include most of the abilities generally considered psychic (such as telepathy, or moving objects with the mind, as well as some that most people haven’t heard of).

Psi “energy” seems to have electromagnetic properties and it seems to be associated with nervous system function. In other words, more energy is produced with greater activity in the nervous system.

Although some use Psionics to attempt to “tell the future”, I do not believe that such an ability is possible. Also, if telekinesis (moving objects with the mind) is possible with Psionics, I would not care as it seems to me a waste of time.

I use it almost exclusively for focal meditation, relaxation techniques, and empathy along with a few other things.

The question is: Is this contrary to the objective teachings of the Catholic Church?

I do not believe that it is and I will not accept any argument blindly, although I am more that willing to be shown the truth.

I will be more than happy to clarify or explain anything I can.

Thank you for your time.

P.S. I’m really not sure whether this is in the right place in the forum so please let me know if I need to change some things.

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html#2.1. What is new about New Age?

 

[michelleds]

I took the liberty of snipping some of your responses. I continue to be very concerned about you. You say that you are too deep into this, that you can’t avoid it, and it appears that while you ostensibly posted your question to see if the Church says “no” to this sort of activity; you aren’t listening to the answers.

I will tell you that I did more than “some study” into the occult, and what you are so intensely involving yourself in is the occult. It is also dangerous in that you will want more of what you are perceiving, and you will go to greater lengths (depths) to get it in the future.

Check out this website: newagedeception.com/new/ Sharon Lee Giganti is a powerful speaker with a strong message

mk1486:

I find I’m too deep to simply “avoid” it and, as you said, that might be enough to try and stay away. Unfortunately, I can’t bring myself to leave unless I have a good reason (I.E. I’m convinced that it is bringing me down and always will) as it does work.

I’ll tell you, I did some study into the whole Satanism and Demonology thing from the occult side with a little from The Church’s side and it makes me quite paranoid as well. That’s why I dropped the deeper occult stuff as quickly as I did. ME: This is a bit like being a little bit pregnant; there is no such thing as white magic/black magic/good and evil magic—it’s all from Satan.

promethius:

I would suggest, if you’re looking for models of proper Christian mysticism, St Francis and Padre Pio would be good examples to consider in terms of their exercises.

Thank you. I’ll read into them and at least skim their exercises soon for discussion. However, I doubt they will be specific enough for my tastes.

 

[mk1486]

@thistle:

“What is new about New Age?”

Nothing really, but I believe that Psionics can not be simply dismissed as New Age.

Also, I have seen the types of New Age practices mentioned in that article and would not consider Psionics to fall under any of them.

@michelleds:

“I took the liberty of snipping some of your responses. I continue to be very concerned about you. You say that you are too deep into this, that you can’t avoid it, and it appears that while you ostensibly posted your question to see if the Church says “no” to this sort of activity; you aren’t listening to the answers.”

Thank you very much for your concern. I hope you can see that I am concerned as well, even though it may seem like I’m ignoring fatal blows to my positions.

I am listening to the answers (but admittedly maybe not well enough). The thing is, I’m hearing more opinion than fact and “dangerous” is simply not enough.

One of the main reasons I see Psionics as outside of the occult is that I did some things that could be considered within the realm of Psionics years and years before I was anywhere near reading or hearing about it.

Furthermore, those who practice Psionics, including myself, say that everyone uses it to a degree innately and practicing it is just that. You wouldn’t consider running to be an occult practice because some people may not know how to run well or don’t consider running at all as a mode of transportation.

“I will tell you that I did more than “some study” into the occult, and what you are so intensely involving yourself in is the occult. It is also dangerous in that you will want more of what you are perceiving, and you will go to greater lengths (depths) to get it in the future.”

Let me clarify myself about what I meant by “some study”. I meant that I spent several months on the “Left handed way” of Black Magick up to and past sigils, curses, etc.

If you look into even the highest level of Psionics, you’ll note how limited it is. For example, telepathy never gets past basic communication and the best of the people who practice telekinesis brag about how they can close doors on good days.

Psionics has none of the overarching clams of offering great power that the occult does. There are more or less defined perimeters to its abilities.

“Check out this website: newagedeception.com/new/ Sharon Lee Giganti is a powerful speaker with a strong message”

I looked on the site, but unfortunately I do not have enough time to read all of it in-depth. I read the what looked like the top 3 most relevant articles to me. Unfortunately, I could not closely connect Psionics to any of the new age practices mentioned.

“This is a bit like being a little bit pregnant; there is no such thing as white magic/black magic/good and evil magic—it’s all from Satan.”

I would say that Psionics is not a type of magic (for the record, Psions tend to get pretty angry if you label them as magi) and therefore does not fall under that statement.

One of the main reasons why I practice Psionics is because I have never seen an alternative that is directly or indirectly approved by The Church.

For example, have any of you heard about a different way to manage true (Psionic) empathy?

Thank you for bearing with me and I look forward to your responses.

 

[thistle]

@thistle:

“What is new about New Age?”

Nothing really, but I believe that Psionics can not be simply dismissed as New Age.

Also, I have seen the types of New Age practices mentioned in that article and would not consider Psionics to fall under any of them.

@michelleds:

“I took the liberty of snipping some of your responses. I continue to be very concerned about you. You say that you are too deep into this, that you can’t avoid it, and it appears that while you ostensibly posted your question to see if the Church says “no” to this sort of activity; you aren’t listening to the answers.”

Thank you very much for your concern. I hope you can see that I am concerned as well, even though it may seem like I’m ignoring fatal blows to my positions.

I am listening to the answers (but admittedly maybe not well enough). The thing is, I’m hearing more opinion than fact and “dangerous” is simply not enough.

One of the main reasons I see Psionics as outside of the occult is that I did some things that could be considered within the realm of Psionics years and years before I was anywhere near reading or hearing about it.

Furthermore, those who practice Psionics, including myself, say that everyone uses it to a degree innately and practicing it is just that. You wouldn’t consider running to be an occult practice because some people may not know how to run well or don’t consider running at all as a mode of transportation.

“I will tell you that I did more than “some study” into the occult, and what you are so intensely involving yourself in is the occult. It is also dangerous in that you will want more of what you are perceiving, and you will go to greater lengths (depths) to get it in the future.”

Let me clarify myself about what I meant by “some study”. I meant that I spent several months on the “Left handed way” of Black Magick up to and past sigils, curses, etc.

If you look into even the highest level of Psionics, you’ll note how limited it is. For example, telepathy never gets past basic communication and the best of the people who practice telekinesis brag about how they can close doors on good days.

Psionics has none of the overarching clams of offering great power that the occult does. There are more or less defined perimeters to its abilities.

"Check out this website: newagedeception.com/new/ Sharon Lee Giganti is a powerful speaker with a strong message"

I looked on the site, but unfortunately I do not have enough time to read all of it in-depth. I read the what looked like the top 3 most relevant articles to me. Unfortunately, I could not closely connect Psionics to any of the new age practices mentioned.

“This is a bit like being a little bit pregnant; there is no such thing as white magic/black magic/good and evil magic—it’s all from Satan.”

I would say that Psionics is not a type of magic (for the record, Psions tend to get pretty angry if you label them as magi) and therefore does not fall under that statement.

One of the main reasons why I practice Psionics is because I have never seen an alternative that is directly or indirectly approved by The Church.

For example, have any of you heard about a different way to manage true (Psionic) empathy?

Thank you for bearing with me and I look forward to your responses.

It sounds pretty occultish to me. The following is from a website that promotes new age and psychic rubbish.

QUOTE:

Psionics is a branch of occult science that espouses the control of etheric energies through modern implements. The past witnessed how yogis, martial artists, warlocks and faith healers entered into altered states in order to command great energies for various purposes. As we are aware, the uses of these energies are countless. Yogis activate the “kundalini” energy to awaken a profound enlightenment. Martial artists (like adherents of Ki Gong) engorge their auras with energy to nullify incoming blows. Faith healers perform startling surgeries with psychic knives.

Obviously, tremendous effort and continuous training must precede the control of such energies. You don’t become a ki gong master overnight. Energy control is evidently a time-consuming proposition. A daunting problem indeed.

Here’s where psionics enters the picture. Eternally lazy, man developed ways of cutting time and maximizing results. Instead of concentrating for hours on end to get that stubborn kundalini to uncoil within your spine, you can let a machine concentrate for you. The “machine” could be scribbles on paper, cardboard cutouts, full-fledged plastic psionic boxes (such as those found at psiops.com) or even software programs.

UNQUOTE

 

[michelleds]

website 1: “What is Psionics?”
Psionics can be defined as the practice of psychic abilities such as telekinesis, telepathy, and other related mental abilities."

website 2: read the first few paragraphs of the psionic handbook here psipog.net/thepsionshandbook01.pdf

website 3: The difference between psionics versus magick is like Taoism versus Buddhism. In magick, you recognize the interplay of energies in the environment and come to see how you are a part of them and can affect them. Sort of an intuitive science. In psionics, you recognize the play of forces within you and gain control of them and how they affect you and your environment. So one is an internal focus and the other an external focus. Both anchored in the mind, but the process is very different even if the outcome can be the same.

 

[mk1486]

***"It sounds pretty occultish to me. The following is from a website that promotes new age and psychic rubbish.

QUOTE:

Psionics is a branch of occult science that espouses the control of etheric energies through modern implements. The past witnessed how yogis, martial artists, warlocks and faith healers entered into altered states in order to command great energies for various purposes. As we are aware, the uses of these energies are countless. Yogis activate the “kundalini” energy to awaken a profound enlightenment. Martial artists (like adherents of Ki Gong) engorge their auras with energy to nullify incoming blows. Faith healers perform startling surgeries with psychic knives.

Obviously, tremendous effort and continuous training must precede the control of such energies. You don’t become a ki gong master overnight. Energy control is evidently a time-consuming proposition. A daunting problem indeed.

Here’s where psionics enters the picture. Eternally lazy, man developed ways of cutting time and maximizing results. Instead of concentrating for hours on end to get that stubborn kundalini to uncoil within your spine, you can let a machine concentrate for you. The “machine” could be scribbles on paper, cardboard cutouts, full-fledged plastic psionic boxes (such as those found at psiops.com) or even software programs.

UNQUOTE"

I agree that it does sound occultish. However, the site you picked is simply New Age garbage, as you said, that tries to “knock-off” some of the ideas of Psionics".***

I has all the main ideas of New Age: occult secrets used by figureheads, the issue, the shortcut or other secret that when revealed, will give you the hidden power without you really doing any work.

Psionics is a broad term and I must clarify that I only practice and believe in a very small and focused portion. (If I have not made what that it sufficiently clear, please ask me to elaborate on individual points and I’ll do my best to answer.)

Here are some of the reasons why I do not consider True Psionics to be the occult or New Age:
-True Psionics is not hidden (occult) and most do not claim it to be. Many Psions (including myself) believe that Psionics is an innate skill that everyone has and many practice without knowing it. Thus knowing about Psionics does not make you a better Psion, practice makes you a better psion.
-True Psionics does not claim to make you powerful or reveal shortcuts.
-True Psionics is more or less scientific as many Psions try to be as objective as possible and good instructions are both specific and concise (something completely lacking in most occult and New Age schools of thought).
-I was doing Psionics before I knew what it was and passed many enticing yet false theories before I found Psionics.

@michelleds:

I’m not sure what you’re getting at with those quotes. I’ve seen them all, more or less, before and I’ll do my best to comment/respond to all of them.

"website 1: “What is Psionics?”
Psionics can be defined as the practice of psychic abilities such as telekinesis, telepathy, and other related mental abilities."

This seems right to me, except for the fact that it doesn’t mention Psi “energy”.

“website 2: read the first few paragraphs of the psionic handbook here http://www.psipog.net/thepsionshandbook01.pdf”

Although I differ from psipog in philosophy (for example, I believe that he is wrong about the seperation between science and religion), I agree with almost all of his writing.

“website 3: The difference between psionics versus magick is like Taoism versus Buddhism. In magick, you recognize the interplay of energies in the environment and come to see how you are a part of them and can affect them. Sort of an intuitive science. In psionics, you recognize the play of forces within you and gain control of them and how they affect you and your environment. So one is an internal focus and the other an external focus. Both anchored in the mind, but the process is very different even if the outcome can be the same.”

I don’t think this applies to my case, Although I have heard that a 1st class Psion and a 1st class Magi will be on the same general level for some abilities.

However, following the spirit of the supposition, I can say that Psionics verses Magick is like Satanism versus Catholicism. Can not both a satanist and a saint perform “miracles” and invoke the supernatural?

Therefore I find this last quote to be irrelevant.

 

[faithj]

First of all, thank you for your response.

“I know this portion wasn’t directed at me, but I feel the need to respond that if you don’t know if what you’re dealing with is supernatural or not, and you don’t know if it’s contradictory to church teaching, then that alone would be enough, in my book, to avoid the practice.”

I find I’m too deep to simply “avoid” it and, as you said, that might be enough to try and stay away. Unfortunately, I can’t bring myself to leave unless I have a good reason (I.E. I’m convinced that it is bringing me down and always will) as it does work.

*“Then again, perhaps my study into demonology has made me overly paranoid, but I’m certainly apt to avoid any sort of practice which relies on any source of power other than Christ’s grace.”
*

I’ll tell you, I did some study into the whole Satanism and Demonology thing from the occult side with a little from The Church’s side and it makes me quite paranoid as well. That’s why I dropped the deeper occult stuff as quickly as I did.

“Nope. Demons, by their nature, have certain spiritual authority which is vested in and of their being. The demons do not use the power of God against God, that would not even be possible for Grace itself to be twisted and contradictorily squared against Grace.”

Thank you for that clarification as you obviously know more about the subject than I do. However, I still do not think that it rules out the possibility of a neutral power.

"Psionic energy, as you’re discussing it, comes from and is vested human nature and is a neutral power that we can manipulate… that simply is not the case of human nature… we have only the graces from God, which either:

1. cannot be activated by our will, only by God’s
   OR
2. can only be activated by the proscribed rites given to us by God through His church.

We have no means of demanding charisms, and no neutral third power source to produce anything resembling a charism."

One idea that had been presented is that our souls can act supernaturally in themselves. (I seriously doubt it, but I haven’t been able to eliminate the possibility.)

What about the idea that we can reject God’s grace? Couldn’t everyone be offered the gifts of Psionics and only a few are able to/choose to use them? Did not Christ say:*
“Matthew 17:20 Greek Study Bible (Apostolic / Interlinear)
ὁ δὲ λέγει αὐτοῖς· διὰ τὴν ὀλιγοπιστίαν ὑμῶν· ἀμὴν γὰρ λέγω ὑμῖν, ἐὰν ἔχητε πίστιν ὡς κόκκον σινάπεως, ερεῖτε τῷ ὄρει τούτῳ· μετάβα ἔνθεν ἐκεῖ, καὶ μεταβήσεται· καὶ οὐδὲν ἀδυνατήσει ὑμῖν.
KJV with Strong’s
And Jesus said unto them Because of your unbelief for verily I say unto you If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed ye shall say unto this mountain Remove hence to yonder place and it shall remove and nothing shall be impossible unto you.”*

I’m no new testament scholar (I know the best of the best I.E. Dr. Waldstein so I can ask him if we need clarification), but the greek word for “faith” can also be translated as " belief, trust, confidence" (maybe I’m taking this out of context). Could not Christ be implicating the existence of something alike to Psionics?

(Here I feel bad that I’m throwing out everything in the hope of an explanation.)

In other words, I don’t think that it necessarily means that Psionics is contrary to The Faith. Can you be more specific? I believe it, but it seems like there might be room for Psionics

I believe you really want to conform with the church teaching.All men are bless with the
gift of faith and reason. but our will are weakrned and our intellect are darkened by original Sin. in my humble opinion it is best to consult a Priest who has the time and dedication to enlighten you. The church teachings are infallible even though its members are not always obedient to it.You always have your free will you can accept it or not with the corresponding consequence of course.